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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

TPO

Member
Joined
7 Jun 2018
Messages
127
On the contrary, your position is completely reasonable and understandable. All of us have had to make some degree of risk assessment over the whole thing, including over taking the vaccine (I'm still in the "hold off and wait for a bit" camp, as are pretty much all the under-40s I know - but on the contrary personally I would encourage anyone over 40-50 to take it as the balance of risk probably tips the other way then).

The key is making a reasoned judgement - I wish the media would simply present the figures, not put a slant on it like "terrifying doubling of cases in a week", or whatever.

Part of the issue is that it's very apparent that many people have consistently over-estimated the level of risk posed to themselves by Covid, for example grossly under-estimating the median age of death, or the odds of ending up in hospital. For me this is a distraction, as the more people get sick of having to go along with measures which are simply there to be seen to be doing something, the less it is taken seriously for those cases where there really is a tangible risk.

This isn't to do it down, however on the contrary I know people who have ended up in hospital (and in one case sadly passing away) due to having allowed their shielding to become compromised. So for me the focus is making sound individual judgements, rather than the puerile government nonsense like "let's all do our bit", "travel with confidence", or whatever. In any event, the government don't give a toss whether you or I catch SARS-CoV-2, they're only interested in whether hospitals fill up.

Indeed.

If ones immune system is compromised, other illnesses such as measles (UK has not been measles-free for some years now), mumps, chickenpox, tuberculosis (surprisingly prevalent in some areas and often drug-resistant these days) and things like the "common cold" and flu or even an outbreak of usually-benign bacteria or yeast which live on our skin, in our gut etc can be seriously damaging. Tetanus can be caught from the soil too.

Measles is particularly nasty- it has an R number of 12-18 and has the additional effect of transient immune system supression. Vaccination rates were below the level required for herd immunity even before COVID so I'd guess they are lower still now with the NHS having been the NCS (National Covid Service) for over a year.

Perspective is important and over-estimating the COVID risk can blind one to other higher risks.

TPO
 
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bramling

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Indeed.

If ones immune system is compromised, other illnesses such as measles (UK has not been measles-free for some years now), mumps, chickenpox, tuberculosis (surprisingly prevalent in some areas and often drug-resistant these days) and things like the "common cold" and flu or even an outbreak of usually-benign bacteria or yeast which live on our skin, in our gut etc can be seriously damaging. Tetanus can be caught from the soil too.

Measles is particularly nasty- it has an R number of 12-18 and has the additional effect of transient immune system supression. Vaccination rates were below the level required for herd immunity even before COVID so I'd guess they are lower still now with the NHS having been the NCS (National Covid Service) for over a year.

Perspective is important and over-estimating the COVID risk can blind one to other higher risks.

TPO

Agree with all of the above, and very especially the last bit - which is particular relevant for some of the people who have walled themselves up indoors, there's two at my work who have come back from shielding and they have absolutely piled on the weight, going from "a bit fat" to "visibly heavily obese". That isn't a good position for either of them to be in.
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
2,894
Agree with all of the above, and very especially the last bit - which is particular relevant for some of the people who have walled themselves up indoors, there's two at my work who have come back from shielding and they have absolutely piled on the weight, going from "a bit fat" to "visibly heavily obese". That isn't a good position for either of them to be in.
Can they not see that?
 

Yew

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Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
5,425
Location
Nottingham
Completely unverifiable and could be entirely fake, but it lifted my spirits and might do for someone else:

I still think cases should at the very least stop rising (pretty please :oops:) but it looks alright so far.


Here's the quote:
I’d take a small ocean of salt with that, with the drivel about small businesses.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
8,393
What does that mean? You seem to be referring to single days with a number of deaths over a 7 day period, which doesn't make sense. To have anything over a 7 day period you need to be considering a 7 day period by definition, not a single day.

It means that in the 7 days prior to that date there were less than 150/200 deaths, as that 7 day period moves on by one day you lose one day and gain another.

As an example (just random numbers, which should make it easier to follow the maths):
10th has 6
11th has 5
12th has 6
13th has 5
14th has 4
15th has 3
16th has 6

That gives you a 7 day total of 35.

If you then move onto having data for the 17th (8), you take away the 6 from the 10th and add in the 8, giving you a 7 day total of 37.

Likewise once you have the data for the 18th you add that in and take away the data for the 11th, and so on.

As it's a whole week you average out any changes which may happen on any given day (for instance weekends may be different to week days).
 

tommy2215

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2017
Messages
218
According to the Guardian, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance both back abolishing social distancing and mask wearing! Surprising given at basically every press conference they have told us if we ease restrictions hospitals will be overwhelmed and thousands more will die. Just a few weeks ago they said it! Its about time though, given more than 85% of adults have had a jab and more than 60% have had both doses. However the article does mention that whilst ditched elsewhere, masks and possibly social distancing will remain on public transport.....
 

liam456

Member
Joined
6 May 2018
Messages
221
Any ideas as to why the JCVI are being quite conservative with their approval (or lack thereof) of vaccines for adolescents down to roughly age 12 compared to American authorities? I understand the diminishing risks principle but how come the Americans were faster to approve than us?
 

Mojo

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Any ideas as to why the JCVI are being quite conservative with their approval (or lack thereof) of vaccines for adolescents down to roughly age 12 compared to American authorities? I understand the diminishing risks principle but how come the Americans were faster to approve than us?
Possible cultural issues? Americans don’t seem to care much what drugs they give themselves or their children.
 

HSTEd

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Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
13,581
Any ideas as to why the JCVI are being quite conservative with their approval (or lack thereof) of vaccines for adolescents down to roughly age 12 compared to American authorities? I understand the diminishing risks principle but how come the Americans were faster to approve than us?
Because it will make little difference in the short term.

There are no vaccines to give the children either way, and won't be for months.
 

bramling

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Hertfordshire / Teesdale
According to the Guardian, Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance both back abolishing social distancing and mask wearing! Surprising given at basically every press conference they have told us if we ease restrictions hospitals will be overwhelmed and thousands more will die. Just a few weeks ago they said it! Its about time though, given more than 85% of adults have had a jab and more than 60% have had both doses. However the article does mention that whilst ditched elsewhere, masks and possibly social distancing will remain on public transport.....

I think they’re fighting a losing battle on the latter. Mask use on trains has really dropped over the last couple of weeks, and (in the London area at least) there’s essentially no distancing going on at all, and hasn’t been for some while.

They should just ditch it, rather than have this silly theatre where it tails away gradually (as many lockdown measures have), but still leaving things open for the virtue signallers to do their thing and make trouble.

If masks on trains don’t go now, we’ll be lumbered with it right through the winter, albeit with continuing falls in compliance.
 

nlogax

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29 May 2011
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3,937
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London & Scotland
Possible cultural issues? Americans don’t seem to care much what drugs they give themselves or their children.

You say that, but the US authorities haven't / likely won't approve AstraZeneca at all for anyone, and this is one rumoured reason behind the reluctance to reopen their borders. We're beginning to see small indications of vaccine-specific restrictions around the world which will need to be challenged if things are to open up internationally once more at least for vaccines within a similar band of effectiveness.
 

liam456

Member
Joined
6 May 2018
Messages
221
So the MHRA have granted approval for Pfizer until what age exactly?

But the JCVI just formulate vaccination plans, right? Meaning them saying that adolescents will be vaccinated doesn't mean much until more vaccines start coming in?
 

Ediswan

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15 Nov 2012
Messages
1,005
Location
Stevenage
So the MHRA have granted approval for Pfizer until what age exactly?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...fessionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine
This medicinal product has been given authorisation for temporary supply by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. It does not have a marketing authorisation, but this temporary authorisation grants permission for the medicine to be used for active immunisation to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus in individuals aged 12 years of age and over.
 

Bantamzen

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Possible cultural issues? Americans don’t seem to care much what drugs they give themselves or their children.
Indeed. You only have to watch US TV to know just how much drugs are pushed at every opportunity. Got depression, there's a drug for that. Feeling sick, got you covered. Arm fallen off, yep more drugs. Woke feeling a bit tired, there's drugs for that too. (Cue 5 minutes of disclaimers and possible side effects including depression, feeling sick, tired, arm falls off, death.....)

So its really not a surprise.
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,271
Indeed. You only have to watch US TV to know just how much drugs are pushed at every opportunity. Got depression, there's a drug for that. Feeling sick, got you covered. Arm fallen off, yep more drugs. Woke feeling a bit tired, there's drugs for that too. (Cue 5 minutes of disclaimers and possible side effects including depression, feeling sick, tired, arm falls off, death.....)

So its really not a surprise.
I also assume that all the USA Anti Vaccination brigade, also do not take any of the drugs etc that you see advertised on the TV over there.....after all you might die !
 

Bantamzen

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I also assume that all the USA Anti Vaccination brigade, also do not take any of the drugs etc that you see advertised on the TV over there.....after all you might die !
I would put the rest of the money I will earn in my lifetime on some US anti-vaxxers popping more meds than a crackhead on Skid Row....
 

Darandio

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24 Feb 2007
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Redcar
There does still seem to be a lot of people out there still calling for the 19th July lifting to be cancelled or for harsher restrictions to be reinstated purely on the basis of cases.

Here is a lovely little snippet from this article on the BBC, to me it's much more meaningful than shouting TWENTY THOUSAND cases in a loud voice.

Fewer than one in 1,000 infections is now leading to a death - compared with one in 60 last winter.
 

Mag_seven

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There does still seem to be a lot of people out there still calling for the 19th July lifting to be cancelled or for harsher restrictions to be reinstated purely on the basis of cases.

Here is a lovely little snippet from this article on the BBC, to me it's much more meaningful than shouting TWENTY THOUSAND cases in a loud voice.

I think it's time for these people to lock themselves away for ever and let the rest of us get on with it. They do realise that they are in effect vaccine efficacy deniers which puts them into the same camp as anti vaccers!
 

Jonny

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10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,341
There does still seem to be a lot of people out there still calling for the 19th July lifting to be cancelled or for harsher restrictions to be reinstated purely on the basis of cases.

Here is a lovely little snippet from this article on the BBC, to me it's much more meaningful than shouting TWENTY THOUSAND cases in a loud voice.

Such people are those who want zero covid - which is never happening. Everyone who really needs it has had the chance to have two doses. This social distancing etc. malarkey might have been necessary a year ago but it has gone on long enough now.
 

londonteacher

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2018
Messages
464
Can I ask a question?

I had my first dose of Pfizer on the 12th of June. I was due to receive my second on 28th August but luckily I managed to reschedule to the 7th of August. However, I have now booked a walk-in vaccination on Sunday 18th at Tottenham Hotspurs. This would be 5 weeks 1 day after my first dose. I know that currently, the government as of today is encouraging after 8 weeks, but the JCVI recommends between 3-12 weeks. Many people I know and work with have managed to get their second dose from week 4 onwards at a walk-in. What is the likelihood that I get my second dose on the 18th? I would happily get mine at the end of the day if there are any left.

Also, why does the CDC (US) say Pfizer should be given 21 days after the first dose and we have been pushing for 12 weeks in the UK? Is this due to the supply of vaccines?
 

big_rig

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Joined
21 Aug 2020
Messages
362
Location
London
Hi pal,

You may be turned away at the walk-in I’m afraid. Vaccine centres in London particularly have been giving people second doses before 8 weeks (my first dose was about the same time as yours) but they have been slapped down by NHS England after getting on the news recently and told not to do that anymore. All the ads for walk-in now say ‘second dose only after 8 weeks.’ I understand the belief/evidence is that a longer gap gives longer lasting protection - they probably have the supply to bring 2nd doses forward significantly (as the average daily vaccination rate has gone down so much) but a judgement has been made that the long term benefit of a delayed 2nd dose outweighs any risk to young people from a longer wait. We will just have to be patient :) I am itching to get my 2nd to take a holiday abroad but will have to wait a few more weeks!
 

londonteacher

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2018
Messages
464
Hi pal,

You may be turned away at the walk-in I’m afraid. Vaccine centres in London particularly have been giving people second doses before 8 weeks (my first dose was about the same time as yours) but they have been slapped down by NHS England and told not to do that anymore. All the ads for walk-in now say ‘second dose only after 8 weeks.’ I understand the belief/evidence is that a longer gap gives longer lasting protection - they probably have the supply to bring 2nd doses forward significantly (as the average daily rate has gone down so much) but a judgement has been made that the long term benefit of a delayed 2nd dose outweighs any risk to young people from a longer wait. We will just have to be patient :) I am itching to get my 2nd to take a holiday abroad but will have to wait a few more weeks!
To be honest that was what I expected to happen! When I booked it this evening, there was no mention of the second dose only after 8 weeks but I agree that most likely I will have to wait which is a shame!
This event is for any over 18s who are yet to have their vaccination. You can book here or simply turn up on the day.

This will be a Pfizer vaccine clinic available for first and second doses. Pfizer is mainly targeted at those aged under 40, but we will not turn away any eligible age groups who come on the day.

You do not need to have an NHS number.

Qualified vaccinators will be there to ensure you are safely vaccinated. This is an opportunity to keep yourself and your community safe.
Tottenham Hotspur - Vaccination - there is the link if anybody in the London area is interested!
 

Mintona

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Joined
8 Jan 2006
Messages
3,487
Location
South West
I’ve booked my second dose for tomorrow, which is less than six weeks since the first. But it was a text invite from my doctor to book the second one so I thought I may as well.
 

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