Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[kez19]

This whole current media frenzy has been brought on by people who have refused the vaccine.

I see it another way, the frenzy has been brought on by the media themselves wanting to know who got jabbed or not but create a division towards the unvaccinated (seems to have worked ie Scotland vaccine passports valid entry to venues, unvaccinated get stuffed)

To me it’s clear as day that this would have been science led to then been pushed politically to what is now media driven (governments listen more to media than think for themselves - but why the governments can’t blame the media I don’t know but they should hold them responsible regardless of actions)

 

[DustyBin]

This whole current media frenzy has been brought on by people who have refused the vaccine.

In what way? I think it’s been brought on by rising infections which are in turn the result of our obsessive testing, and even this is only the catalyst they needed. Ultimately they wanted a frenzy and they would have found a way to start one regardless. Unvaccinated people really aren’t the cause of this, it was always going to happen as I can’t remember a single winter when the NHS wasn’t under pressure.

 

[Bantamzen]

This whole current media frenzy has been brought on by people who have refused the vaccine.

No its entirely media driven.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This whole current media frenzy has been brought on by people who have refused the vaccine.

How do you conclude this?

It ha been brought on by the media propagating fear

 

[greyman42]

Almost all the people admitted to hospital with Covid have not been vaccinated. If they had been vaccinated then hospital admissions with Covid would be insignificant and so the media would have nothing to get into a frenzy about.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

The problem is that the media and some experts are talking in terms of everyone getting a third jab & how not enough people are getting it. And we know how easily politicians can fold under pressure for them. Its already happened in Israel, and Austria seems to be moving it's travel requirements towards having more boosters. Its really not a massive step to imagine the situation where a third / fourth / fifth booster becomes the next "key to freedom".

And all of this is under the backdrop of the WHO pleading with industrialised nations to concentrate on getting vaccines to poorer countries instead of focusing on third jabs. It does feel sometimes like politicians are getting addicted to pandemics.

I don’t read newspapers generally. And sift through stuff online. I have seen that there’s been massive confusion over “booster” and “third primary jab” online though.

The third primary jab rollout absolutely needed the media to start crying out about it — it was announced on September 1st and seven/eight weeks later there are still people trying to get that third primary dose, with some medical professionals not understanding that there is such a thing as a third primary and then even when they acknowledge that, they misinterpret the JCVI guidance. I have now had mine but it was a very frustrating seven week wait to get it — when the intention appears to have been for these to have all been done in September. Deadlines were actually set but for myself and others I know who are also eligible they were missed.

I’ve also heard that there are issues with care home residents in particular not getting their booster jabs — and these are the people who need them most. The press need to kick off about this to get it done. After care home residents weren’t looked after last year this is inexcusable.

The initial vaccine rollout was a massive success. What’s happening now isn’t. Perhaps related to the change in health secretary, I don’t know — or simply that they shouldn’t have announced third primary jabs and boosters within two weeks of each other.

The JCVI hasn’t made any recommendations for under 50s to get a booster (unless vulnerable), so anyone calling for “everyone” to get a booster is misinformed.

 

[Cdd89]

I may be misunderstanding something here, but surely we don’t want people to get a third dose before six months? There are not yet that many people whose second dose was >6m ago.

 

[DustyBin]

Almost all the people admitted to hospital with Covid have not been vaccinated. If they had been vaccinated then hospital admissions with Covid would be insignificant and so the media would have nothing to get into a frenzy about.

Where on earth are you getting your information from? Unvaccinated covid admissions only account for 30-35% of the overall number.

Be careful as well not to fall for the dodgy graph that goes back to before the vaccine roll out even began!

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

I may be misunderstanding something here, but surely we don’t want people to get a third dose before six months? There are not yet that many people whose second dose was >6m ago.

You can only get a booster after six months. The system won’t allow you to book before then.

The tiny proportion of people eligible for a third primary jab can get theirs earlier — from 8 weeks after their second. This is a tiny tiny number of highly immunocompromised people though, for whom two doses may not have worked but where it’s hoped that three will.

 

[DustyBin]

You can only get a booster after six months. The system won’t allow you to book before then.

The tiny proportion of people eligible for a third primary jab can get theirs earlier — from 8 weeks after their second. This is a tiny tiny number of highly immunocompromised people though, for whom two doses may not have worked but where it’s hoped that three will.

This is my understanding as well. There are however calls for the six month period to be reduced, based on what I’m not sure!

 

[Richard Scott]

This is my understanding as well. There are however calls for the six month period to be reduced, based on what I’m not sure!

Probably not based on science as that's another way we've gone. Lots of so called experts say something that's taken as gospel, suddenly it's what we're doing with absolutely no scientific reason for it.

 

[bramling]

In what way? I think it’s been brought on by rising infections which are in turn the result of our obsessive testing, and even this is only the catalyst they needed. Ultimately they wanted a frenzy and they would have found a way to start one regardless. Unvaccinated people really aren’t the cause of this, it was always going to happen as I can’t remember a single winter when the NHS wasn’t under pressure.

The real problem is this week, unlike the last few, seems to have been a slow news one. Much as the fuel panic buying was a pain, it did at least offer something else for the media to obsess over.

This week turn on the news and straight away there will be some “expert” or other screaming for either more restrictions, masks, or of course working from home. It really is getting like a stuck record.

Unfortunately, I suspect eventually BJ will give in. Javid seems up for holding out, but ultimately I think BJ will crumble. He’s too weak to defend a position.

 

[yorksrob]

The real problem is this week, unlike the last few, seems to have been a slow news one. Much as the fuel panic buying was a pain, it did at least offer something else for the media to obsess over.

This week turn on the news and straight away there will be some “expert” or other screaming for either more restrictions, masks, or of course working from home. It really is getting like a stuck record.

Unfortunately, I suspect eventually BJ will give in. Javid seems up for holding out, but ultimately I think BJ will crumble. He’s too weak to defend a position.

This is true.

Slow news week and you know covid is going to be trotted out.

 

[The Ham]

This is true.

Slow news week and you know covid is going to be trotted out.

If you look at hospitalisations and deaths they both have been broadly flat for a couple of weeks, compare this time last year when at the time we had similar numbers and a few weeks previously the numbers were quite a bit lower and went on growing.

As such I'm not sure where the evidence for more lockdowns is coming from (as cases aren't an overly accurate measure of how many will need to go to hospital).

Yes it's worth seeing what happens, but there's not the same growth in hospital cases yet.

 

[Ediswan]

There are not yet that many people whose second dose was >6m ago.

Today is 23rd October. As of 23rd April, 12 million people had received their second dose.

 

[DustyBin]

According to Gillian Keegan (care minister) vaccine passports will “evolve” to take into account third doses/boosters from next summer. I honestly expect everybody will be “required” to have a third dose over the next few months, unless it’s explicitly confirmed otherwise.

 

[Cdd89]

vaccine passports will “evolve” to take into account third doses/boosters from next summer

This is a good thing, as multiple countries already require a third dose for entry after some period after the second dose. In fact next summer sounds a bit late in my opinion.

They should be available to everyone who wants one as soon as possible, for this reason; but I would absolutely state that they should not be mandatory within (or for entry to) the U.K., and I will not be having one unless a country I really want (or need) to visit requires it.

 

[Richard Scott]

This is a good thing, as multiple countries already require a third dose for entry after some period after the second dose. In fact next summer sounds a bit late in my opinion.

They should be available to everyone who wants one as soon as possible, for this reason; but I would absolutely state that they should not be mandatory within (or for entry to) the U.K., and I will not be having one unless a country I really want (or need) to visit requires it.

I really can't see the point of a third dose for majority. It's just another waste of money and resources because this virus has become a global obsession. I'm sure in years to come people will look back on this and all the measures taken and just ask "why"?

 

[Cdd89]

I really can't see the point of a third dose for majority. It's just another waste of money and resources because this virus has become a global obsession

Just to be clear, I absolutely agree with you.

Worse, I think it is seriously putting off anyone who might have considered a first dose. Whatever their reason for not having already had one — side effects, time to do it, fear of needles — they’re not going to be encouraged by being told they actually need three, and even less by the hint that it might be one a year or something.

Instead we should be making JnJ widely available and telling people, if they’re reluctant, just come and have one dose.

 

[AlterEgo]

I may be misunderstanding something here, but surely we don’t want people to get a third dose before six months? There are not yet that many people whose second dose was >6m ago.

There are quite a lot of those people. My 6 month "anniversary" is in three weeks.

 

[greyman42]

Worse, I think it is seriously putting off anyone who might have considered a first dose. Whatever their reason for not having already had one — side effects, time to do it, fear of needles — they’re not going to be encouraged by being told they actually need three, and even less by the hint that it might be one a year or something.

Does anyone really use these excuses for not getting vaccinated? If you have not had one how do you know you will have side effects and minor side effects never did anyone any harm. The other two reasons you mentioned are pathetic.

 

[Richard Scott]

Does anyone really use these excuses for not getting vaccinated? If you have not had one how do you know you will have side effects and minor side effects never did anyone any harm. The other two reasons you mentioned are pathetic.

I don't think a phobia of needles is pathetic, you can't comment on how bad someone's phobia is; that's not on. I don't have a phobia of needles but do of other things and only I know how I feel in such circumstances however irrational it may seem to someone else.

 

[Cdd89]

Does anyone really use these excuses for not getting vaccinated? If you have not had one how do you know you will have side effects and minor side effects never did anyone any harm. The other two reasons you mentioned are pathetic.

Many people report significant side effects from Jab2 but not from Jab1. Others have significant side effects from Jab1 and are deterred from Jab2 as a consequence.

As for the patheticness of the reasons, I’d suggest it’s far better to appeal to such people rather than dismissing their reasons. Aside from which I don’t think being terrified of needles is pathetic. I am psychologically incapable of swallowing pills (which I’m sure some people think is pathetic); if the vaccine came in that form I would have probably not taken it, and if I was offered just one pill rather than two I’d have jumped on it.

 

[Red Onion]

Does anyone really use these excuses for not getting vaccinated? If you have not had one how do you know you will have side effects and minor side effects never did anyone any harm. The other two reasons you mentioned are pathetic.

I’ve had almost 8 months of some quite nasty side effects from dose 1, enough to have required several hospital stays. Side effects are not always minor. That’s why I won’t be taking any more doses, though I’d be interested to hear any reasons why I should take the risk.

 

[Domh245]

According to Gillian Keegan (care minister) vaccine passports will “evolve” to take into account third doses/boosters from next summer. I honestly expect everybody will be “required” to have a third dose over the next few months, unless it’s explicitly confirmed otherwise.

The evidence that everyone will be expected to have a third dose keeps piling up :/

Booster jabs won't be offered to under-50s until 'well after Christmas', says JCVI member​

Third doses of the COVID vaccine are currently available to over-50s, frontline healthcare workers, care home staff and residents and those most at risk from coronavirus.
The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is unlikely to extend eligibility for the booster until significant progress has been made with the roll-out, according to the i.
The newspaper claims a JCVI member, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told their reporter that any extension would likely happen "well after Christmas".
They added: "When you think about how long ago most of these people had [a second jab], they're still within the six-month range.
"And bearing in mind a lot of people will have had COVID — they’re essentially tripled covered."

 

[greyman42]

Many people report significant side effects from Jab2 but not from Jab1. Others have significant side effects from Jab1 and are deterred from Jab2 as a consequence.

I believe that only a tiny percentage of the vaccinated population suffered side effects that could be classed as significant.

As for the patheticness of the reasons, I’d suggest it’s far better to appeal to such people rather than dismissing their reasons. Aside from which I don’t think being terrified of needles is pathetic.

What annoys me is not so much being terrified of needles, but peoples inability to put that aside and just get vaccinated. You do not even have to see the needle if you don't look and you barely feel anything. Do these people avoid needles at the dentist when in agony with toothache.

 

[LowLevel]

I believe that only a tiny percentage of the vaccinated population suffered side effects that could be classed as significant.


What annoys me is not so much being terrified of needles, but peoples inability to put that aside and just get vaccinated. You do not even have to see the needle if you don't look and you barely feel anything. Do these people avoid needles at the dentist when in agony with toothache.

That's a bit naive I must say. People literally avoid dentists and/or needles until their teeth rot out of their heads because of fear, unfounded or otherwise.

I know a number of perfectly sane, rational individuals who become effectively wild animals if faced with their particular phobia.

If you're on the fence about a vaccine as it is fear of needles is more than enough to shove you over the other side.

 

[Bald Rick]

What annoys me is not so much being terrified of needles, but peoples inability to put that aside and just get vaccinated.

I invite you to come and talk to my daughter about it. Except you won’t be able to, because even if you try to open the conversation, she runs off screaming.

Do these people avoid needles at the dentist when in agony with toothache.

Yes.

 

[davews]

I was reluctant in getting the first dose because at the time I knew of loads of people who had pretty severe after effects from the AZ. I somewhat reluctantly had my two doses of AZ. With the booster due next month I know that it will be Pfizeer, not AZ, most definitely NOT a third dose. We know a lot more about the virus and vaccines now, I don't consider myself vulnerable despite my age, and with now an increasing number of very bad reports via the yellow card system that I cannot ignore I am currently not intending to have the booster. Mixing AZ and Pfizer is moving into unknown territory. And if everybody is so convinced what a wonder drug this vaccine is why on earth are cases now soaring to huge rates? I have totally lost confidence in the way this is going as I suspect an awful lot of others have as well.

 

[Bald Rick]

And if everybody is so convinced what a wonder drug this vaccine is why on earth are cases now soaring to huge rates?

Simple maths.

The vaccine has efficacy against infection of around 70% - ie 30% of people fully vaccinated can still catch it. The vaccine has much better efficacy against the illness being bad enough to cause hospitalisation, so while there are many infections, hospitalisations are much, much lower than pre vaccine (when we also had lockdown restrictions).

Also, there are still a lot of people unvaccinated: 20m+ in this country, although many are children. They have no protection other than natural immunity if they have had it.

I would be very interested to see data on the vaccination status of those hospitalised, split by age group. Is this in the public domain?