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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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yorkie

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Quiz question: do stories like this from ‘experts’ promote or hinder the cause of increasing vaccination coverage? Are people who haven’t bothered to get it going to be more encouraged to do so by a message which roughly translates to ‘vaccines aren’t that good anyway?’

I also note the esteemed professor was speaking ‘virtually from Portugal.’ Travelling ‘during a pandemic’ - fine for some.



Adam Finn is NOT a vaccine expert. His Twitter profile says he is "interested" in how vaccines work; he isn't a virologist or immunologist.

He is yet another vaccine effectiveness denier:

Already widely reported but definitely worth a look if you haven’t seen it already. This is the most effective tool we have to reduce transmission rates right now (not vaccines - which do this poorly but do stop you getting sick really well)
He's had a lot of stick from real experts, including virologists:

Adam. This is not accurate or helpful. REACT report out this week clearly shows protection from transmission in vaccinees, albeit with some concerns around waning. It is also the case that exposure is at shockingly high levels, no doubt playing a role. #VaccinesWork

Please reconsider this tweet and clarify. Vaccines may not be sterilising but they are incredibly effective at reducing transmission.

And many others expressed concerns and replied with graphs.

However the media like to quote any random misfit with a PhD and portray them as an expert in all things.

Many of the people who downplay the effectiveness of vaccines do so because they want attention for themselves or their causes, which often include promoting mandatory masks or other measures. It's disgraceful really.
 
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DustyBin

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Adam Finn is NOT a vaccine expert. His Twitter profile says he is "interested" in how vaccines work; he isn't a virologist or immunologist.

He is yet another vaccine effectiveness denier:


He's had a lot of stick from real experts, including virologists:





And many others expressed concerns and replied with graphs.

However the media like to quote any random misfit with a PhD and portray them as an expert in all things.

Many of the people who downplay the effectiveness of vaccines do so because they want attention for themselves or their causes, which often include promoting mandatory masks or other measures. It's disgraceful really.

In that case it makes it even worse that someone in Harries’ position would say what she said. If, as I’ve previously speculated, it was an attempt to “scare” people into getting their third dose it was stupid IMO.

On the other hand Nature published this recently although it raises as many questions as answers:


COVID vaccines cut the risk of transmitting Delta — but not for long​

People who receive two COVID-19 jabs and later contract the Delta variant are less likely to infect their close contacts than are unvaccinated people with Delta.

The first study to look directly at how well vaccines prevent the spread of the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 brings good news and bad.

The study shows that people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a COVID-19 vaccine than if they haven’t1. But that protective effect is relatively small, and dwindles alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot.

The findings add to scientists’ understanding of the vaccination’s effect on curbing Delta’s spread, but are “both more and less encouraging”, says Marm Kilpatrick, an infectious-disease researcher at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Previous studies have found that people infected with Delta have roughly the same levels of viral genetic materials in their noses regardless of whether they’d previously been vaccinated, suggesting that vaccinated and unvaccinated people might be equally infectious2. But studies also suggest that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus if they subsequently catch Delta: their levels of nasal virus drop faster than do those of unvaccinated infected people, and their nasal swabs contain smaller amounts of infectious virus3,4.

The latest study examined the effect of vaccines on transmission more directly. It analysed testing data from 139,164 close contacts of 95,716 people infected with SARS-CoV-2 between January and August 2021 in the United Kingdom, when the Alpha and Delta variants were competing for dominance.

The authors found that although the vaccines did offer some protection against infection and onward transmission, Delta dampened that effect. A person who was fully vaccinated and then had a ‘breakthrough’ Delta infection was almost twice as likely to pass on the virus as someone who was infected with Alpha. And that was on top of the higher risk of having a breakthrough infection caused by Delta than one caused by Alpha.

Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

A reduction was also observed in people vaccinated with the jab made by US company Pfizer and German firm BioNTech. The risk of spreading the Delta infection soon after vaccination with that jab was 42%, but increased to 58% with time.

Delta vaults ahead​

“There’s a step-change with Alpha versus Delta, but then there’s also a change over time,” says co-author David Eyre, an epidemiologist at the University of Oxford, UK. The results “possibly explain why we’ve seen so much onward transmission of Delta despite widespread vaccination”.

But the results also offer the “intriguing possibility that if you do run a booster campaign because you want to protect individuals, it may also have this effect of reducing transmission,” says Eyre.

Booster campaigns raise a new uncertainty, says Stephen Riley, an infectious-diseases researcher at Imperial College London: “whether the same waning of protection from infectiousness will occur after the third dose”.

The study has not yet been peer reviewed.
 

big_rig

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Adam Finn is NOT a vaccine expert. His Twitter profile says he is "interested" in how vaccines work; he isn't a virologist or immunologist.

He is yet another vaccine effectiveness denier:


He's had a lot of stick from real experts, including virologists:





And many others expressed concerns and replied with graphs.

However the media like to quote any random misfit with a PhD and portray them as an expert in all things.

Many of the people who downplay the effectiveness of vaccines do so because they want attention for themselves or their causes, which often include promoting mandatory masks or other measures. It's disgraceful really.
I would completely agree, but unfortunately Adam Finn sits on the JVCI!
 

Bald Rick

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Today’s figures are suggesting that infections are levelling off now - and with half term this week I’d have a cheeky tenner on cases falling by this this time next week.
 

big_rig

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Today’s figures are suggesting that infections are levelling off now - and with half term this week I’d have a cheeky tenner on cases falling by this this time next week.
They seem to have a knack of doing that recently when people start to call for more restrictions! I would feel sorry for them, but…

The third dose figures are now also looking very strong. 325,000 yesterday - I think it was mentioned on the news that half of all people over 80 or something or other have had one.
 

Dent

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Today’s figures are suggesting that infections are levelling off now - and with half term this week I’d have a cheeky tenner on cases falling by this this time next week.

What figures are you looking at? The case numbers have already started falling, both yesterday and today's reported numbers were considerably down from the corresponding days last week.
 

Bald Rick

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What figures are you looking at? The case numbers have already started falling, both yesterday and today's reported numbers were considerably down from the corresponding days last week.

The official figures for infections by specimen date. The 7 day average is still climbing, slowly, but the rate of increase has slowed in the last few days, and will turn in the next few days to a falling trend.
 

ChrisC

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Today’s figures are suggesting that infections are levelling off now - and with half term this week I’d have a cheeky tenner on cases falling by this this time next week.
Nottinghamshire has a 2 week half term holiday and the the schools have already been closed for one week and they are now into their second week of holiday. It will be interesting to see if infection levels begin to fall earlier here. There are probably a few other areas of the country where schools have 2 weeks for the October half term holiday.
 

35B

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Nottinghamshire has a 2 week half term holiday and the the schools have already been closed for one week and they are now into their second week of holiday. It will be interesting to see if infection levels begin to fall earlier here. There are probably a few other areas of the country where schools have 2 weeks for the October half term holiday.
Leicestershire too. But the norm is one week - this week.
 

Dent

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The official figures for infections by specimen date. The 7 day average is still climbing, slowly, but the rate of increase has slowed in the last few days, and will turn in the next few days to a falling trend.

You can't say the trend is still climbing based on the specimen date figures, you can only say is was climbing on the last day before the reporting lag period. Looking at the reported date figures, they are already falling.
 

yorkie

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I would completely agree, but unfortunately Adam Finn sits on the JVCI!
Just shows how bad some of these 'experts' are when the true experts have serious concerns and ask them to consider deleting their tweets due to misinformation.
What figures are you looking at? The case numbers have already started falling, both yesterday and today's reported numbers were considerably down from the corresponding days last week.
I don't want to disagree but we do need to be cautious with daily fluctuations, but I'd say @Bald Rick has this covered:
The official figures for infections by specimen date. The 7 day average is still climbing, slowly, but the rate of increase has slowed in the last few days, and will turn in the next few days to a falling trend.
The signs are very encouraging and I see the overall trend for the last 7 days compared to the previous 7 is -0.4%

In other news, the dashboard now has booster dose info:



Booster or third dose total​

6,442,000
 

Bald Rick

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It seems the BBC have perhaps reached a similar conclusion to me (and many others no doubt!)


Quoting a small part of it:

Modelling done for the government suggests cases and deaths could soon start to fall dramatically.
That though is dependent on a number of factors, including the vast majority of over-50s coming forward for their boosters, and a degree of cautious behaviour throughout winter when it comes to mixing and socialising.
 

yorkie

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It seems the BBC have perhaps reached a similar conclusion to me (and many others no doubt!)


Quoting a small part of it:
Yes this was posted in another thread; I'll find it and post a link to my reply.
Edit: here it is https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heading-into-autumn-what-next.221694/page-36#post-5369909

And in other news:

A US government panel has voted to recommend the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine should to be given to children aged five to 11.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) experts backed the move on Tuesday, paving the way for emergency authorisation within a matter of weeks.
In September, the company said its trial data showed the Covid jab was safe for children in that age group.
 

Snow1964

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NHS has announced that bookings for third jab will be changed from Monday (in England), and can be booked from 5 months after second jab. The actual jab date will still be at least 182 days after second jab.

Change means can choose a date month earlier, and is for all over 50s, vulnerable over 16, all medical and care staff.
 

southerner

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Already live. Booked for myself and the missus this morning for 6 months plus a couple of days, which is end November in our case. Was a very busy website!
 

Horizon22

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Not sure if worthy of a new thread or not, but the government has now stated that all NHS staff must be doubly vaccinated by April 1, 2022.


Frontline NHS staff in England will have to be fully vaccinated against Covid, the health secretary has announced.
A deadline is expected to be set for 1 April next year to give unvaccinated staff time to get both doses, Sajid Javid told the Commons.
Between 80,000 and 100,000 NHS workers in England were unvaccinated, said Chris Hopson, head of NHS Providers.
Thursday is the deadline for care home workers in England to get vaccinated.
The government's decision follows a consultation which began in September and considered whether both the Covid and flu jabs should be compulsory for frontline NHS and care workers.
Mr Javid said the flu vaccine would not be made mandatory.
 

brad465

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I wonder how many staff will leave over this, and how much worse the staff shortages will get as a result? 80-100k staff is a large number in its own right, even just 25% of the lower bound leaving would be troubling.
 

Cdd89

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I wonder how many staff will leave over this, and how much worse the staff shortages will get as a result? 80-100k staff is a large number in its own right, even just 25% of the lower bound leaving would be troubling

The other (harsh) point is how skilled / replaceable the staff who choose to leave are.
 

HSTEd

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The other (harsh) point is how skilled / replaceable the staff who choose to leave are.

In the new world very few staff are replaceable, no matter how "skilled" or not they are.
 

Red Onion

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I wonder if the devolved health boards in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland might attempt to poach some staff to fill their own staffing gaps.
 

kristiang85

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The WHO is now warning of a global shortage of syringes, which could be an issue for years to come.

Yet another example of the West's obsession with COVID probably having an adverse effect on other conditions, most likely in poorer countries.
 

kez19

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The WHO is now warning of a global shortage of syringes, which could be an issue for years to come.

Yet another example of the West's obsession with COVID probably having an adverse effect on other conditions, most likely in poorer countries.

Oh jeez who could have seen this coming?
 

Ediswan

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I just booked a booster. The following condition does not apply to me, but I am curious as to why it exists. Anybody know ? As written, it makes it harder for health and social care workers to get a booster, which would be counter to pronouncements made elsewhere.

If you are a health or social care worker​

You need to bring official proof with you to have your vaccination. This can be either a photographic work ID card, a wage slip or letter from your employer dated within the last 3 months.
If you do not bring official proof with you to your appointment you will not be vaccinated and will need to book again.
 

kez19

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I just booked a booster. The following condition does not apply to me, but I am curious as to why it exists. Anybody know ? As written, it makes it harder for health and social care workers to get a booster, which would be counter to pronouncements made elsewhere.

I didn’t need to bring proof (ok I’m in Scotland) but they were able to find me on the system
 

fireftrm

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I just booked a booster. The following condition does not apply to me, but I am curious as to why it exists. Anybody know ? As written, it makes it harder for health and social care workers to get a booster, which would be counter to pronouncements made elsewhere.
Yes - it is because booster jabs are only being given to those in higher risk categories and those over 50, plus health and social care workers. So if you aren't in one of the higher risk categories and are under 50 you wouldn't be offered the booster vaccine. However, you would if you are and NHS or social care workers, hence the requirement to provide proof of employment.
 

Ediswan

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Yes - it is because booster jabs are only being given to those in higher risk categories and those over 50, plus health and social care workers. So if you aren't in one of the higher risk categories and are under 50 you wouldn't be offered the booster vaccine. However, you would if you are and NHS or social care workers, hence the requirement to provide proof of employment.
Thanks. Taken literally as written, the requirement would apply to all health and social care workers, even if they qualifed for some other reason, such as over 50. Such are the perils of trying to 'keep thing simple'.
 

adc82140

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I'm a healthcare worker and have currently declined my booster. There have been pronouncements from Harries et al that the vaccine doesn't stop spread. Therefore the vaccine is to protect me alone, not my patients. I am at no more clinical risk of serious disease than any other 43 year old. I will therefore await my age group being called up, if indeed they are. It's morally questionable for me to take that dose from someone who is vulnerable just because I'm an NHS worker.
 

ChrisC

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During this year I have had the two Covid jabs and have my booster jab booked for the end of this month. I have also had my flu jab for the first time ever as I’ve never bothered with it before. Then this week I get a text message from my GP, now that I’ve just had my 65th birthday, offering me a pneumonia jab. I’m not sure whether I have done the right thing but I’ve declined having the pneumonia jab deciding that I’ve already had enough jabs for one year. Before this year, the last jab I had was my TB jab when I was 12 years old at school!
 

The Ham

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I'm a healthcare worker and have currently declined my booster. There have been pronouncements from Harries et al that the vaccine doesn't stop spread. Therefore the vaccine is to protect me alone, not my patients. I am at no more clinical risk of serious disease than any other 43 year old. I will therefore await my age group being called up, if indeed they are. It's morally questionable for me to take that dose from someone who is vulnerable just because I'm an NHS worker.

Does the vaccine stop you from passing Covid on once you have it?

No, it doesn't.

However it does reduce your risk of getting it in the first place. Which means that it does (overall) reduce the risk of you picking up the virus and passing it on to others (in that if you don't catch it you can't pass it on).

It's a difference which some (and I'm not saying that you are one) fail to understand.
 
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adc82140

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Does the vaccine stop you from passing Covid on once you have it?

No, it doesn't.

However it does reduce your risk of getting it in the first place. Which means that it does (overall) reduce the risk of you picking up the virus and passing it on to others (in that if you don't catch it you can't pass it on).

It's a difference which some (and I'm not saying that you are one) fail to understand.
I see your point. But also having had Covid a while back, my chances of a repeat infection are extremely small, given the combination of natural immunity and being double jabbed.
 
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