Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[Bantamzen]

Booster booked. The data is increasingly showing how remarkably effective they are, but take up is somewhat off. This shouldn't be treated like an optional extra, especially with the news coming in from Southern Africa. Let's encourage everyone we know to get the shot.

Has it occurred to you that the very low vaccination rates in parts of Africa are because industrialised nations are scooping up many of the vaccines for boosters (at a third more cost BTW)? And besides if the media are to be believed*, the new variant will just evade the vaccine anyway.....

(*I don't by the way)

 

[adc82140]

Has it occurred to you that the very low vaccination rates in parts of Africa are because industrialised nations are scooping up many of the vaccines for boosters (at a third more cost BTW)? And besides if the media are to be believed*, the new variant will just evade the vaccine anyway.....

(*I don't by the way)

I held off getting my booster for just this reason. I changed my mind when I found out some African nations are chucking out doses because they are about to expire.

 

[kristiang85]

Has it occurred to you that the very low vaccination rates in parts of Africa are because industrialised nations are scooping up many of the vaccines for boosters (at a third more cost BTW)? And besides if the media are to be believed*, the new variant will just evade the vaccine anyway.....

(*I don't by the way)

Yes this is what annoys me; why are healthy, 30s, double vaccinated and recovered people like me in line to get a 3rd dose, when it would be far more beneficial if these doses went to countries to prioritise their first doses. I really feel the West is hogging the vaccine supplies, despite far less vulnerability, and it's only going to make the problem worse in the long run if COVID is allowed to run rampant in the developing world.

If anything, those countries should have been prioritised first given their health systems are way more fragile than ours.

 

[quantinghome]

Yes this is what annoys me; why are healthy, 30s, double vaccinated and recovered people like me in line to get a 3rd dose, when it would be far more beneficial if these doses went to countries to prioritise their first doses. I really feel the West is hogging the vaccine supplies, despite far less vulnerability, and it's only going to make the problem worse in the long run if COVID is allowed to run rampant in the developing world.

If anything, those countries should have been prioritised first given their health systems are way more fragile than ours.

There's the practical point that declining to take up the offer of a booster in the UK won't free up doses for other countries due to expiry dates and so on.

On the substantive point, yes it's an outrage that the West has failed to fund a global vaccine roll-out. This funding should have been put in place by summer 2020 so that the vaccine manufacturers could increase their capacity to allow a full global roll-out.

 

[yorksrob]

Realistically there needs to be a better vaccine manufacturing infrastructure in the southern hemisphere.

 

[kristiang85]

There's the practical point that declining to take up the offer of a booster in the UK won't free up doses for other countries due to expiry dates and so on.

Obviously not, but it's the overall policy I was getting at.

On the substantive point, yes it's an outrage that the West has failed to fund a global vaccine roll-out. This funding should have been put in place by summer 2020 so that the vaccine manufacturers could increase their capacity to allow a full global roll-out.

I fully agree.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes this is what annoys me; why are healthy, 30s, double vaccinated and recovered people like me in line to get a 3rd dose, when it would be far more beneficial if these doses went to countries to prioritise their first doses. I really feel the West is hogging the vaccine supplies, despite far less vulnerability, and it's only going to make the problem worse in the long run if COVID is allowed to run rampant in the developing world.

If anything, those countries should have been prioritised first given their health systems are way more fragile than ours.

I feel pretty certain that the West are hogging the market because we can afford to. When both Pfizer and Moderna ramped up the cost of the vaccines by up to a third earlier in the year, and at the same time talk of widespread third jabs began in earnest, an alarm bell rang for me. Even more so when AZ were not included in the money grab, erm booster program having previously said they did not believe everybody needed one.

I'm planning a trip to Heathrow soon to check the behind the pipes in the gents toilets for brown envelopes...

 

[DustyBin]

A quick look at the statistics reveals that many if not all of the countries in Southern Africa aren't actually doing too badly in terms of Covid deaths, in fact some appear to be doing rather well. Could it be that our obsession with testing and a frankly arrogant belief that we can "control the virus" are the real problems? Possibly combined with the fact we have an ageing and unhealthy population? Do these countries actually want the vaccines or are they happy to just get on with it? Are some actually opposed on religious/cultural grounds? (I have no idea incidentally). We've a history of trying to impose Western-style democracy where it wasn't wanted, I think we need to be careful not to do the same with our response to Covid.

I'm playing devils advocate to a certain extent here, although I think it's an interesting discussion.

 

[yorksrob]

On the substantive point, yes it's an outrage that the West has failed to fund a global vaccine roll-out. This funding should have been put in place by summer 2020 so that the vaccine manufacturers could increase their capacity to allow a full global roll-out.

Point of order, there are plenty of wealthy countries that aren't "the West" that ought to be stumping up as well.

 

[yorkie]

There's the practical point that declining to take up the offer of a booster in the UK won't free up doses for other countries due to expiry dates and so on.

On the substantive point, yes it's an outrage that the West has failed to fund a global vaccine roll-out. This funding should have been put in place by summer 2020 so that the vaccine manufacturers could increase their capacity to allow a full global roll-out.

Despite your claims to the contrary, the UK has actually done this; as I reported on this forum previously :

Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre to open 12 months ahead of schedule

Race to manufacture millions of doses of a coronavirus vaccine boosted with a multi-million-pound government investment.

www.gov.uk

The government will invest up to £93 million to accelerate construction of the new Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre (VMIC) which, when completed, will have capacity to produce enough vaccine doses to serve the entire UK population in as little as six months. The funding will ensure the centre opens in Summer 2021, a full 12 months ahead of schedule.

The new Centre, which is already under construction, is a key component of the government’s coronavirus vaccine programme – ensuring that once a vaccine is available it can be produced quickly and in mass quantities.

Pharmaceutical

Access Orchestrate, our pharmaceutical manufacturing planning & scheduling software is used by 4 of the top 10 pharma companies in the world. Learn more.

www.theaccessgroup.com

The UK government has invested an extra £100m in a new state-of-the-art centre to scale up Covid-19 vaccine and gene therapy manufacturing

 

[stuartl]

Despite your claims to the contrary, the UK has actually done this; as I reported on this forum previously :

Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre to open 12 months ahead of schedule

Race to manufacture millions of doses of a coronavirus vaccine boosted with a multi-million-pound government investment.

www.gov.uk

Pharmaceutical

Access Orchestrate, our pharmaceutical manufacturing planning & scheduling software is used by 4 of the top 10 pharma companies in the world. Learn more.

www.theaccessgroup.com

A report on the BBC news site says that South Africa have asked pfizer to delay further deliveries of vaccines as they have a large unused stockpile, due to people not coming forward to get it.

 

[quantinghome]

Despite your claims to the contrary, the UK has actually done this; as I reported on this forum previously :

Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre to open 12 months ahead of schedule

Race to manufacture millions of doses of a coronavirus vaccine boosted with a multi-million-pound government investment.

www.gov.uk

Pharmaceutical

Access Orchestrate, our pharmaceutical manufacturing planning & scheduling software is used by 4 of the top 10 pharma companies in the world. Learn more.

www.theaccessgroup.com

Yes, the UK has made some important contributions to vaccine rollout in other countries, through VMIC, vaccine donation and other initiatives.

However, taken as a whole, developed countries (agree that 'the West' is not a helpful descriptor here) could and should have done a lot more to ensure the vaccine was rolled out globally as quickly as possible, assuming that manufacturing could have been scaled up faster than it was had additional funding been made available.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, the UK has made some important contributions to vaccine rollout in other countries, through VMIC, vaccine donation and other initiatives.

However, taken as a whole, developed countries (agree that 'the West' is not a helpful descriptor here) could and should have done a lot more to ensure the vaccine was rolled out globally as quickly as possible, assuming that manufacturing could have been scaled up faster than it was had additional funding been made available.

If you can identify any countries that are lacking in this area, feel free to cite what they have / have not done and criticise them accordingly, but you cannot criticise the UK in this area.

I don't blame individuals such as yourself but there can surely be no denying that the best overall strategy would have been to give just two doses of vaccine (preferably a viral vector dose plus mRNA dose) around 3 months apart worldwide and for any booster doses to be given out only to immunocompromised people until there was no longer any supply issue.

Of course we don't have the benefit of hindsight and can't turn back the clock; also the trials that took place with 3 week gaps arguably had to have such a short gap because we needed the data quickly.

Booster booked. The data is increasingly showing how remarkably effective they are...

I strongly suspect this is not the case if you are measuring efficacy against severe disease, hospitalisations and deaths and if the comparison is with two doses of viral vector and mRNA vaccines with an optimum gap between them.

However if you look at the data from (say) Israel where they gave 2 x mRNA doses only 3 weeks apart, then yes you are going to get a very different result with the boosters.

For the average person, with a lengthy gap between doses, a booster really isn't required - and that is the opinion of experienced virologists not just myself - however my advice on an individual level would always be for anyone to take what is recommended to them.

Point of order, there are plenty of wealthy countries that aren't "the West" that ought to be stumping up as well.

Absolutely and people have no right to lump the UK in any criticisms in this regard; to do so demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Not impressed by the booster process.

Not one walk-in centre in Wakefield or Leeds.

For booking it directs you to a website which then says you can't book it.

The website is: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

However you cannot have your 3rd dose until 6 months after your second dose; once 5 months has elapsed it should allow you to make a booking.

Don't forget, a longer gap between doses provides a broader, longer lasting immune response.

 

[yorksrob]

If you can identify any countries that are lacking in this area, feel free to cite what they have / have not done and criticise them accordingly, but you cannot criticise the UK in this area.

I don't blame individuals such as yourself but there can surely be no denying that the best overall strategy would have been to give just two doses of vaccine (preferably a viral vector dose plus mRNA dose) around 3 months apart worldwide and for any booster doses to be given out only to immunocompromised people until there was no longer any supply issue.

Of course we don't have the benefit of hindsight and can't turn back the clock; also the trials that took place with 3 week gaps arguably had to have such a short gap because we needed the data quickly.


I strongly suspect this is not the case if you are measuring efficacy against severe disease, hospitalisations and deaths and if the comparison is with two doses of viral vector and mRNA vaccines with an optimum gap between them.

However if you look at the data from (say) Israel where they gave 2 x mRNA doses only 3 weeks apart, then yes you are going to get a very different result with the boosters.

For the average person, with a lengthy gap between doses, a booster really isn't required - and that is the opinion of experienced virologists not just myself - however my advice on an individual level would always be for anyone to take what is recommended to them.


Absolutely and people have no right to lump the UK in any criticisms in this regard; to do so demonstrates a lack of understanding.


The website is: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

However you cannot have your 3rd dose until 6 months after your second dose; once 5 months has elapsed it should allow you to make a booking.

Don't forget, a longer gap between doses provides a broader, longer lasting immune response.

Yes, I phoned up today and was told should be able to book next week

 

[Farang]

Yes, I phoned up today and was told should be able to book next week

We got our jabs yesterday having booked, but someone else turned up without an appointment, asked if any walk ups were available and was told "We never turn anyone away".

 

[yorksrob]

We got our jabs yesterday having booked, but someone else turned up without an appointment, asked if any walk ups were available and was told "We never turn anyone away".

Funnily enough, that's how I got my second. Will try officially first though.

 

[Bayum]

It was a nightmare for me to get my third primary dose. Had to wait for a letter to be sent out by my rheumatology team - six weeks after the initial announcement and doses began to be given. Then, I could only attend on specific days and times and even then only after they had checked it had been >8 weeks since my last jab.

 

[adc82140]

It was a nightmare for me to get my third primary dose. Had to wait for a letter to be sent out by my rheumatology team - six weeks after the initial announcement and doses began to be given. Then, I could only attend on specific days and times and even then only after they had checked it had been >8 weeks since my last jab.

Does the 3rd primary dose have to be the same vaccine as the first two, or it it done in the same way as a booster, with Pfizer?

 

[johnnychips]

Does the 3rd primary dose have to be the same vaccine as the first two, or it it done in the same way as a booster, with Pfizer?

No. I and several colleagues had two Pfizers, then the booster was a Moderna. All the same side-effect too: a lot of shivering without feeling unwell next day.

 

[adc82140]

No. I and several colleagues had two Pfizer’s, then the booster was a Moderna. All the same side-effect too: a lot of shivering without feeling unwell next day.

Was that a booster, or a third primary dose?

 

[johnnychips]

Was that a booster, or a third primary dose?

No, the booster. Though I understand (and I stand to be corrected) that a ‘booster’ is a normal dose anyway.

 

[bramling]

No, the booster. Though I understand (and I stand to be corrected) that a ‘booster’ is a normal dose anyway.

What is the difference between a third dose and a booster?

 

[adc82140]

What is the difference between a third dose and a booster?

A third dose is for immunocompromised people who don't trigger a sufficient immune response after the normal two doses. They are not considered to be protected sufficiently until their 3rd dose.

A booster is for everyone else who may (or may not) need to counter waning immunity due to time passed from their first two jabs.

 

[greyman42]

Absolutely and people have no right to lump the UK in any criticisms in this regard; to do so demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Some people just like to try and put the boot into the UK at any opportunity.

 

[yorkie]

Does the 3rd primary dose have to be the same vaccine as the first two, or it it done in the same way as a booster, with Pfizer?

Not for any immunological reason, no.

Indeed it is likely better to mix and match vaccine types for a broader immune response.

That said, due to allergies and medical conditions, some people may be advised or required to only take vaccines of a certain type.

 

[Snow1964]

Booster booked. The data is increasingly showing how remarkably effective they are, but take up is somewhat off. This shouldn't be treated like an optional extra, especially with the news coming in from Southern Africa. Let's encourage everyone we know to get the shot.

The booster figures are running at close to 400,000 per day
Looking like over 30% of over 12s will be done by end of this weekend.

The big question is why are first doses running at about twentieth of earlier vaccination rates, with about 1 in 11 Brits remaining not done.

 

[roversfan2001]

The big question is why are first doses running at about twentieth of earlier vaccination rates, with about 1 in 11 Brits remaining not done.

Under 12s not being eligible will cover a decent proportion of that, with the rest made up of those who can’t be vaccinated (a tiny number) and those who choose not to be vaccinated.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Under 12s not being eligible will cover a decent proportion of that, with the rest made up of those who can’t be vaccinated (a tiny number) and those who choose not to be vaccinated.

Er no. That is the proportion of those 12 and over. Currently 88.5% of those 12 + have had a first dose.

 

[DustyBin]

Er no. That is the proportion of those 12 and over. Currently 88.5% of those 12 + have had a first dose.

I think then broadly speaking that leaves:

1. Those who can’t be vaccinated (a small number);

2. Anti-vaxxers (again a small number)

3. Those who aren’t convinced of the benefit and/or are undecided (I suspect these are the majority).

I can’t really think of another category to be honest!

 

[adc82140]

I think then broadly speaking that leaves:

1. Those who can’t be vaccinated (a small number);

2. Anti-vaxxers (again a small number)

3. Those who aren’t convinced of the benefit and/or are undecided (I suspect these are the majority).

I can’t really think of another category to be honest!

4. The needle phobic (more than you'd imagine)