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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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kez19

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I had my first vaccine today and I was lucky it was the Pfizer jab! Seems to be quite a bit in Wales today - my arm aches a touch but no after affects as yet. As for the politicians THEY told us the vaccine would be the way out - yet you Drakefords and all that keep on banging on about 3rd waves - ever the negatives to threaten lockdowns ALL the time! It is utter madness taking our freedom away whenever they feel like it!

Never trust a politician, sorry I meant never trust our politicians, regardless of where we are in the UK, they could promise us the world to then take the rug from under our feet, still though they forget in time things will eventually catch up with them so let them have this "fun" (pardon the pun) but this fun for them will be the end for them all - so lets just sit and wait.

Its a bit ironic we are in a bit of an election and some parties are already bribing the public with goodies (sorry bribe is pretty strong I meant promises... will they deliver on these promises? Of course not as long as it benefits them, the sooner all the public realise this the sooner this can come crashing down.
 
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brad465

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The J&J rollout pause is now official and includes the US, EU and South Africa:


The US, South Africa and European Union will temporarily stop the rollout of the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) Covid jab, after reports of rare blood clotting.
Six cases were detected in more than 6.8 million doses of the vaccine, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said.
Johnson & Johnson has paused its EU rollout, which started this week.
It follows similar cases after doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which prompted curbs to its use.
The FDA said it was recommending the temporary pause "out of an abundance of caution". It confirmed that one patient died from blood clotting complications, and another is in a critical condition.
All six cases were in women aged between 18 and 48, with symptoms appearing six to 13 days after vaccination.
Following the advice, all federal sites in the US have stopped using the vaccine until further investigations into its safety are completed. State and private contractors are expected to follow suit.
The US has by far the most confirmed cases of Covid-19 - more than 31 million - with more than 562,000 deaths, another world high.
 

yorkie

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All six cases were in women aged between 18 and 48
...is significant.

It's also worth noting that women of those ages are not unknown to get these sorts of blood clots from other causes.

It's not clear what the risk of death is, but the risk of a case appears to be one in a million (taking all vaccinations; in reality it's much higher for women aged 18-48 and negligible for other groups) but the risk of death from Covid for someone aged between 40 - 49 is around one in a thousand, though at younger ages this reduces, so I can see that for younger women it seems sensible to say that alternative vaccines which are not viral vectors, such as those using mRNA, should be provided.

I know some people who have asked about second jabs: to be clear, once you have had the first jab there is no reason not to get a second. All the cases have been after first jabs. As far as I know, there have been no instances after a second jab with any of the vaccines.
 

YorkshireBear

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Dennmark are apparently going to completely remove the AZ vaccine from its immunisation programme. I am worried as to what standard that now sets for future medicines and vaccinations. All have side effects, the pill, as has been discussed, is a good example.
 

Ediswan

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Dennmark are apparently going to completely remove the AZ vaccine from its immunisation programme. I am worried as to what standard that now sets for future medicines and vaccinations. All have side effects, the pill, as has been discussed, is a good example.
There is no chance of clinical trials being made large enough to pick up such rare side effects. There may be some scope to improve pharmacovigilance and statistical methods for dealing with small numbers.
 

takno

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There is no chance of clinical trials being made large enough to pick up such rare side effects. There may be some scope to improve pharmacovigilance and statistical methods for dealing with small numbers.
I guess we could avoid giving young adults vaccinations to protect them against something so harmless to them that the undetectable side effects are more serious than the illness. If under-30s weren't in the equation then the balance of risk would be completely clear.
 

jfollows

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...is significant.

It's also worth noting that women of those ages are not unknown to get these sorts of blood clots from other causes.

It's not clear what the risk of death is, but the risk of a case appears to be one in a million (taking all vaccinations; in reality it's much higher for women aged 18-48 and negligible for other groups) but the risk of death from Covid for someone aged between 40 - 49 is around one in a thousand, though at younger ages this reduces, so I can see that for younger women it seems sensible to say that alternative vaccines which are not viral vectors, such as those using mRNA, should be provided.

I know some people who have asked about second jabs: to be clear, once you have had the first jab there is no reason not to get a second. All the cases have been after first jabs. As far as I know, there have been no instances after a second jab with any of the vaccines.
MD in today's Private Eye puts the numbers:
4.4m people in the UK infected with Covid-19
>127,000 deaths
If the 4.4m had been given the AZ vaccine there would have been
>100,000 deaths prevented
22 cases of rare clotting
5 deaths from the rare clotting
and goes on to give comparative figures for the risk of clot after vaccination
IN the last year in the UK, 4.4m people have been infected with Sars-CoV-2 and there have been at least 127,000 deaths as a result. Imagine these 4.4m people had been fully immunised with the Oxford-AstraZeneca (OAZ) vaccine at the outset. At least 100,000 Covid deaths could have been prevented, and there would have been around 22 cases of a rare combination of blood clot and low platelets, with five deaths.
Compared to risk of a clot after vaccination, you are six times more likely to be struck by lightning in your lifetime, 11 times more likely to die in a car accident each year and 100 times more likely to get a blood clot if you use an oral contraceptive. If you are hospitalised with Covid, your risk of a clot is one in four.
Three of the 19 who died from thrombosis following 20.2m doses of the OAZ vaccination were under 30, and those aged 29 and under will now be offered a different vaccine (though other vaccines may have similar tiny risks). In future, vaccine supply may be sufficient for people to choose which vaccine they have, but not yet.
Will this put people off having a vaccine? With infection rates currently very low (thanks to vaccines), some may decide to wait for more safety data to emerge or hope the shield of herd immunity will protect them without a vaccine. This strategy is much riskier than having the vaccine, particularly in the long term.
Many of those who volunteered for vaccine trials when the risks were unknown were under 30. Some volunteered to be deliberately infected with Sars-CoV-2 to help improve our understanding. Many are likely to have a vaccine not just for personal protection, but to protect friends and family, open up society, boost the economy, allow travel and encourage further medical advances from the new vaccine technology. Some people get unpleasant temporary side effects from the vaccines. But the overall chance of dying, as with just about every modern vaccine, is around one in a million. Paracetamol is much more of a risk.
 

yorkie

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That's a good analysis except I believe the number of infections was far, far higher than 4.4m but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

But the point stands and it's interesting to contrast attitudes towards vaccines with (say) paracetamol, for which the risk of side effects is far greater.
 

bspahh

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But the point stands and it's interesting to contrast attitudes towards vaccines with (say) paracetamol, for which the risk of side effects is far greater.
In 2019 there were 3.7 deaths per million from Paracetamol poisoning in England and Wales. That would scale to 247 deaths for the whole of the UK.
 

MikeWM

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But the point stands and it's interesting to contrast attitudes towards vaccines with (say) paracetamol, for which the risk of side effects is far greater.

I think it makes sense from a psychological point of view, even if perhaps not entirely logical. Doing something to deal with a problem (eg. something hurts, so you take a paracetamol) feels rather different from doing something to prevent a potential problem. In the former case you're more willing to take a risk because you're already in a situation you'd rather not be in.

The other point is that if you experience a bad side effect to a medicine, then - except in extreme cases - you can stop taking the medicine and the side-effect usually stops. There's not much you can do if you experience a bad side effect to a vaccine other than wait and hope it sorts itself out.

All that being said, for anyone who had already decided it was in their interest to take the vaccine, I don't see why this rare side-effect should be sufficient to change their mind.

In 2019 there were 3.7 deaths per million from Paracetamol poisoning in England and Wales. That would scale to 247 deaths for the whole of the UK.

All, or at least almost all, of those will be due to deliberate (or accidental) overdose.
 

Trackman

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...is significant.

It's also worth noting that women of those ages are not unknown to get these sorts of blood clots from other causes.
I was reading an article in the Standard yesterday about the odds of a blood clot developing when taking the birth control pill.
It was 2000-1. AZ jab I think it was 250,000-1 and 1,000,000-1 risk of death.
Ok, you don't have to take 'The Pill' and you are warned about the risks involved but this seems to be an acceptable level for it to be out there.
 

brad465

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So apparently there is a taxpayer funded documentary coming out at some point about our vaccine "story":


No 10 defends unreleased taxpayer-funded vaccine documentary​

Downing Street has defended the production of a film about the UK's "extraordinary" vaccine rollout, which is yet to be released more than a month after a clip was posted online.
The trailer for A Beacon Of Hope: The UK Vaccine Story was posted on 10 March, with officials indicating it would have been released later that week.
The prime minister's official spokesman says the documentary "will be published" and insists "this was produced entirely in-house by No 10 staff as part of their work".
No 10 has refused to set out how much the documentary has cost but says it is within its existing digital communications budget.
"It's important that the public are able to understand this important public health issue about the vaccine rollout," the spokesman adds.

The release date isn't yet known but wouldn't be surprised if it was right before the local elections (even though this I think would violate purdah traditions)
 

nlogax

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So apparently there is a taxpayer funded documentary coming out at some point about our vaccine "story":




The release date isn't yet known but wouldn't be surprised if it was right before the local elections (even though this I think would violate purdah traditions)

This sort of governmental hubris is infuriating. Yes, the vaccine rollout has been successful. It's the ONLY thing that's been done with any substantial degree of success since the beginning of March 2020. If the documentary is to be published it should contain fifty minutes of dealing with that history first, and ten minute on the vaccine success. Fair and balanced.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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This sort of governmental hubris is infuriating. Yes, the vaccine rollout has been successful. It's the ONLY thing that's been done with any substantial degree of success since the beginning of March 2020. If the documentary is to be published it should contain fifty minutes of dealing with that history first, and ten minute on the vaccine success. Fair and balanced.
OK you can't fault them for being bold in just buying up any potential vaccine opportunity that looked promising but teh success of the rollout is because its ben left to local people to sort it out not overpaid consultants The latter is definitely worth celebrating.
 

DustyBin

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This sort of governmental hubris is infuriating. Yes, the vaccine rollout has been successful. It's the ONLY thing that's been done with any substantial degree of success since the beginning of March 2020. If the documentary is to be published it should contain fifty minutes of dealing with that history first, and ten minute on the vaccine success. Fair and balanced.

Yes, I can't see that happening though funnily enough!
 

yorksrob

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This sort of governmental hubris is infuriating. Yes, the vaccine rollout has been successful. It's the ONLY thing that's been done with any substantial degree of success since the beginning of March 2020. If the documentary is to be published it should contain fifty minutes of dealing with that history first, and ten minute on the vaccine success. Fair and balanced.

I'd argue that the relaxation of restrictions after lockdown 1 over the summer was quite successful, however this has had to be swept under the carpet as it doesn't suit the pro-restriction agenda.
 

Cdd89

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I notice the vaccination reservation page has changed its age criteria from “45 or over” to:

you were aged 45 or over on or before 30 March 2021

Somewhat curious to know what’s behind this — it excludes a very small number of people (and is a very slight regression from what was permitted for a couple of days, with those who turned 45 from 1 April invited to book).
 

brad465

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Hancock said today that uptake in the over-50s so far is 94%, which if true is remarkable and should reinforce the notion that the NHS won't be in any immediate danger from overwhelming from covid while restrictions are eased.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Hancock said today that uptake in the over-50s so far is 94%, which if true is remarkable and should reinforce the notion that the NHS won't be in any immediate danger from overwhelming from covid while restrictions are eased.
The weekly report, which is probably about 10 days stale now, was around 83% equivalent so its plausible

1618865882212.png
 

Bikeman78

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I had my vaccine this morning. All seemed to be quite efficient. I did chuckle because they wiped down the seats in the injection cubicles between each patient but didn't touch the seats in the waiting area. I was sitting in the latter seat longer.
 

cuccir

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An update from someone who's been following vaccine availability via Twitter here. His data is based on a weekly release that the Scottish government puts out on vaccine supplies, and then extrapolating that out to the rest of the UK. On that basis he's expecting 40-44 year olds to be invited next week across the UK, so keep an eye out on the NHS website if that's you!
 

yorksrob

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An update from someone who's been following vaccine availability via Twitter here. His data is based on a weekly release that the Scottish government puts out on vaccine supplies, and then extrapolating that out to the rest of the UK. On that basis he's expecting 40-44 year olds to be invited next week across the UK, so keep an eye out on the NHS website if that's you!

Fingers Crossed !
 

swt_passenger

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An update from someone who's been following vaccine availability via Twitter here. His data is based on a weekly release that the Scottish government puts out on vaccine supplies, and then extrapolating that out to the rest of the UK. On that basis he's expecting 40-44 year olds to be invited next week across the UK, so keep an eye out on the NHS website if that's you!
My daughter is 40 and was invited in by her GP‘s scheme today. (in East York’s). Looking positive for that age group.

An hour later and I just got called by my GP for my second (Hampshire).
 

yorkie

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ZoeApp update; it's more good news:

Professor Tim Spector from the ZOE COVID Study app discusses the latest figures which show rates falling by a further 27% this week and provides insights into what the current risk of getting COVID in the UK is. He also gives a sneak peak into the findings from a new report that will be published in the Lancet Public Health on Monday.

Sounds like there could be some interesting news coming out of the ZoeApp study next Monday.
 

kristiang85

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For the first time in 10 months, Israel has recorded no COVID deaths. Great news.
 

Snow1964

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If not already called by GP, 44 year olds can now book on NHS vaccinations site

40-43 year olds expected to be added to NHS website in next few days, once they have checked vaccine availability.
 

DannyMich2018

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If not already called by GP, 44 year olds can now book on NHS vaccinations site

40-43 year olds expected to be added to NHS website in next few days, once they have checked vaccine availability.
That's great, just seen it on BBC news, I'm 39 so hopefully won't be too long now for me :)
 
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