View forward and old DMU

[chorleyjeff]

I saw one once reading the Daily Express. I spent the entire journey watching the signals in case he missed one!

Nearly all 1st generation dmus had a forward view from the passenger compartment - the only exceptions I recall were the gangwayed ones (classes 124, 126), and the guard's compartment end of the single-car units (121, 122)

The only emus I recall having such a feature were the Glasgow "Blue Trains" and, I think, the 310s, although as I recall the latter had a bench seat backing on to the bulkhead so you had to stand up to see the view ahead.

My recollection was that the blinds were usually pulled down so no forward view. there was also a very small opening in the blind but no good for enjoying the view ahead.

 

[YorksDMU]

I recall, and you can see this on the preserved set, the way the driver’s desk sloped down in the Cravens cab. No one seems to have come up with a satisfactory answer except to say that it might have been to stop the driver from putting a mug of tea on it.
But the view from most of the first generation units could never be bettered, and was a big reason behind my love of train journeys back in those long ago days.

 

[supervc-10]

I had a great ride on an ICE3 10 years ago (my god time flies!) from Munich to Mannheim in that little cabin behind the driver. The driver left the partition clear. We changed direction partway, it was pretty cool seeing the world run away from you at high speed! It was very cool!

 

[eoff]

For a 110 Negative that's a pretty good shot - IIRC in anything but decent light they tended to be very grainy indeed! What date was that from?

Sorry, I was confused with another scan and had to find the original, it was 135 which means the quality is despicable. I very rarely used negative film as I moved to slides around that time, anything earlier is APS or 110.
It was processed in March 1986.

 

[Welshman]

I recall, and you can see this on the preserved set, the way the driver’s desk sloped down in the Cravens cab. No one seems to have come up with a satisfactory answer except to say that it might have been to stop the driver from putting a mug of tea on it.
But the view from most of the first generation units could never be bettered, and was a big reason behind my love of train journeys back in those long ago days.

Likewise - most of my pocket money went on riding the West Yorkshire rails from the front of dmus in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

Amongst the talk of this feature not being replicated on newer units for fear, amongst other things, of distracting the driver, I still remember on one occasion leaving Halifax station platform 3 towards Bradford. The driver received two on the buzzer, selected 1st gear and accelerated away without noticing the starter was still on. A quick rap on the glass from me caused him to turn round and see me anxiously pointing towards the signal. After an emergency brake application he slid open the door, and thanked me. No harm had been done, but, although not wishing to be meloldramatic, I sometimes wonder what might have happened if he'd had the blind down.

P.S the sloping Cravens desks made it even better for observing the line ahead as the driver couldn't dump his bags, coat, tea-can etc right in your line of vision!

 

[John Webb]

From 1965, passing through the site of Stratford Market station on the North Woolwich-Stratford route:

I didn't make a note about the DMU I was riding at the time. (Picture is a scan from a 35mm slide which had not been stored in good conditions!)

 

[WesternLancer]

From 1965, passing through the site of Stratford Market station on the North Woolwich-Stratford route:
View attachment 82749
I didn't make a note about the DMU I was riding at the time. (Picture is a scan from a 35mm slide which had not been stored in good conditions!)

Great pic - sums it up well.

 

[edwin_m]

Wonderful set of signals too. I don't recall ever seeing eight distant arms in once place! I'm trying to work out if it's a three-way split on each line, with either the middle or right one having a splitting distant for the next box, or whether the lines are bi-directional and some apply to the other two tracks.

 

[John Webb]

Wonderful set of signals too. I don't recall ever seeing eight distant arms in once place! I'm trying to work out if it's a three-way split on each line, with either the middle or right one having a splitting distant for the next box, or whether the lines are bi-directional and some apply to the other two tracks.

I had little interest in railway signalling at that time, but appreciated it was a remarkable spread. There were the passenger lines which the DMU was traversing and the goods lines which merged with the passenger lines just after the overbridge. There were then three routes before Stratford Low-level station, these were:
(1) South curve - heading up to the Liverpool Street line towards Liverpool Street;
(2) the line through the Low-level station;
(3) East curve - linking to the Liverpool Street line to the east.
At the far end of the Low-level station, after the line had passed under the Liverpool Street line, was 'Fork Junction', another split into two lines, where one went to join the line to Temple Mills and the other to Channelsea Junction and Victoria Park.
I recall that most of the distants were fixed; only the splitting distants for Fork Junction were worked.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I didn't make a note about the DMU I was riding at the time.

Latterly the line used class 106 Cravens units, but in 1965 those were probably still on the M&GN route for which they were built. Moreover, the windscreen does not look square enough to be a Cravens product. Possibly a "Lea Valley" class 125, but they had the typical "Derby" very tall windscreens, so my guess it's a Metro Cammell unit - Stratford had a few of the 79xxx units with "yellow diamond" coupling code - similar in appearance to the class 101 in the OP's picture

 

[edwin_m]

I had little interest in railway signalling at that time, but appreciated it was a remarkable spread. There were the passenger lines which the DMU was traversing and the goods lines which merged with the passenger lines just after the overbridge. There were then three routes before Stratford Low-level station, these were:
(1) South curve - heading up to the Liverpool Street line towards Liverpool Street;
(2) the line through the Low-level station;
(3) East curve - linking to the Liverpool Street line to the east.
At the far end of the Low-level station, after the line had passed under the Liverpool Street line, was 'Fork Junction', another split into two lines, where one went to join the line to Temple Mills and the other to Channelsea Junction and Victoria Park.
I recall that most of the distants were fixed; only the splitting distants for Fork Junction were worked.

Thanks for that - makes perfect sense. The building is still there and I've several times used the DLR station that sits about where your picture was taken from.

 

[MP33]

Thanks for that - makes perfect sense. The building is still there and I've several times used the DLR station that sits about where your picture was taken from.

If you sit on a Jubilee line tube to Stratford on the left hand side. Just before the start of the platforms at Stratford you can see the remains of the route of one of the spur lines. Where the DLR station is now there used to be a goods depot. The view of the track bed is possibly better from the side rather than the front.

 

[Huntergreed]

I caught a northern 156 today with a big hole in the blind obscuring the drivers cab. Enjoyed a “drivers eye view” from Metrocentre into Newcastle central. Really makes you realise what you miss from not being allowed to see out the front normally.

 

[PBarnesHST]

The new S stock has them at a high level, near the carriage connections if I remember right. One of the many oddities of London Underground!

I'm willing to be wrong on this, but they're on all tube stock no?

They're on the 2009 stock and I'm sure they're on the 1995 too, set into the panel that would be obscured by the passenger's legs

 

[E27007]

In theory you could sit and look forward and have a Drivers eye view, in practice, the Drivers ran with full length blackout blinds drawn down, a safety reason being at night the blinds drawn block reflections of signals from the opposite road confusing the Driver. You may be surprised at this information, but it is true, I've had the problem , a green signal on the opposite road was so perfectly reflected in my cab screen i was convinced the phantom signal applied to my road

 

[norbitonflyer]

In theory you could sit and look forward and have a Drivers eye view, in practice, the Drivers ran with full length blackout blinds drawn down, a safety reason being at night the blinds drawn block reflections of signals from the opposite road confusing the Driver.

It seemed to vary - some drivers had the blinds down all the time, others only at night.

 

[Harpers Tate]

In their "heyday" (in my experience at least) blinds down in daylight practically never happened. It did become more commonplace as classic DMUs began to disappear.

 

[gallafent]

The new S stock has them at a high level, near the carriage connections if I remember right. One of the many oddities of London Underground!

Yes, interesting to watch and see the blending of regenerative braking with friction as the train slows down …

 

[Rick1984]

of course in the early 90's the driver might let you in cab, which as a child happened to me and we got use horn. Probably a DMU 101 from Glasgow to Kilmarnock

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

For the time being the Tyne & Wear Metro stock offers a front view. Indeed the you can sit on what is the second man's position as the cab is only half width. New stock is on the way in the next few years that won't offer such a view anymore however.

I believe the replacement Merseyrail stock entering service shortly will however provide a forward view unlike the existing stock (though I'm open to correction on that!).

I was on the Tyne & Wear Metro a few days and the front area is cordoned off. I presume to do with cv19.

 

[Steve Harris]

I saw one once reading the Daily Express. I spent the entire journey watching the signals in case he missed one!

Nearly all 1st generation dmus had a forward view from the passenger compartment - the only exceptions I recall were the gangwayed ones (classes 124, 126), and the guard's compartment end of the single-car units (121, 122)

The only emus I recall having such a feature were the Glasgow "Blue Trains" and, I think, the 310s, although as I recall the latter had a bench seat backing on to the bulkhead so you had to stand up to see the view ahead.

I believe the "Blue Trains" (aka Class 303) along with Class 311's had the "feature" until they were overhauled in the 1980's (?). I know you certainly couldn't see out the front after they were overhauled though.

Regarding Class 310, yes you are correct and you can add Class 312 to the list as they were pretty identical in layout and style.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm willing to be wrong on this, but they're on all tube stock no?

They're on the 2009 stock and I'm sure they're on the 1995 too, set into the panel that would be obscured by the passenger's legs

Yes, they are.

The PEP EMUs used to have the space next to the cab for passenger use (luggage really)(but the guard could tell you to move if necessary).

The 508s on the SW division of the SR had the rear cabs available for passenger use in the late 70s/early 80s, and often had the driving cab door left open. It was a comfy and interesting journey to Waterloo, albeit 'backwards'! Although obviously locked out I did wonder if the horn still worked - I never tried it! More recently it was quite common to find 377s' 8 or 12car formations' inner cabs open (i.e. no direct view of the line ahead/behind, but a seat with an opening, 'leanable' window).

 

[big all]

Yes, they are.



The 508s on the SW division of the SR had the rear cabs available for passenger use in the late 70s/early 80s, and often had the driving cab door left open. It was a comfy and interesting journey to Waterloo, albeit 'backwards'! Although obviously locked out I did wonder if the horn still worked - I never tried it! More recently it was quite common to find 377s' 8 or 12car formations' inner cabs open (i.e. no direct view of the line ahead/behind, but a seat with an opening, 'leanable' window).

Passengers have never ever been allowed in any unattended cab, yes in the vestibule part off the cab perhaps as in central section off two coupled units where a through passage was available but never in the rear off a unit.

Yes the vestibule and doors at the rear before the cab where open but actual cab access was by sloppy practices off not locking the cab section from the the rest off the train

On the southern central division around late 80s they allowed railway staff on duty to use the rear cab with drivers permission but soon retracted the permission as drivers complained about abuse [mess dirt fag ash etc ] and problems from accidental equipment moving.

Remember the paddles and hook switch for isolating and section isolating along with the short circuit bar for emergency isolation are in the cab along with the detonators that are in fact classified as explosives were in the cab.

Indeed, you knew when someone was exiting another cab as the interlock would "click" as they turned the cab door butterfly valve for the door before you pressed the door release which if was premature cut traction power.