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Websites and apps that have a bus tracker that shows the reg number or fleet number of the vehicles.

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F Great Eastern

F Great Eastern

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On a slightly different subject, do any operators have to provide vehicle location data for the entire journey or is it up to them? What about those who do not want to do it and are simply only turning on their ticket machines connection to the outside world when they need to process a card and then turning it off again just after?

I've seen buses not tracking on Bustimes that I've been on, someone goes to pay with a card on a Ticketer machine and gets the error beep, the driver turns the connection on, the card gets processed, the vehicle suddenly comes to live on Bustimes mid-journey etc. That's happened mostly on independent operators both in East Anglia and beyond.

Is that drivers who are deliberately trying to stop them being tracked by their employers, poorly trained employees who are starting a journey with something disabled, or an operational decisions being made by bus companies?
 
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markymark2000

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F Great Eastern said:
On a slightly different subject, do any operators have to provide vehicle location data for the entire journey or is it up to them? What about those who do not want to do it and are simply only turning on their ticket machines connection to the outside world when they need to process a card and then turning it off again just after?

I've seen buses not tracking on Bustimes that I've been on, someone goes to pay with a card on a Ticketer machine and gets the error beep, the driver turns the connection on, the card gets processed, the vehicle suddenly comes to live on Bustimes mid-journey etc. That's happened mostly on independent operators both in East Anglia and beyond.

Is that drivers who are deliberately trying to stop them being tracked by their employers, poorly trained employees who are starting a journey with something disabled, or an operational decisions being made by bus companies?
Click to expand...
The main companies that I know of which do/would turn the ticket machine on/off regularly are those which run under S19 or S22 permits which are exempt from the BODS regulations. If a normal company is doing it, I question if it could be down to signal issues and the machine losing signal so stops tracking? If the signal is off, then it won't be tracking in the garage either which really should be a worry for the operator as without another GPS tracking system, that bus could go anywhere and no one would know where it has gone. I will be honest though, I am not sure if drivers can manually turn tracking off.
 
F Great Eastern

F Great Eastern

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markymark2000 said:
The main companies that I know of which do/would turn the ticket machine on/off regularly are those which run under S19 or S22 permits which are exempt from the BODS regulations. If a normal company is doing it, I question if it could be down to signal issues and the machine losing signal so stops tracking? If the signal is off, then it won't be tracking in the garage either which really should be a worry for the operator as without another GPS tracking system, that bus could go anywhere and no one would know where it has gone. I will be honest though, I am not sure if drivers can manually turn tracking off.
Click to expand...

They're not turning the ticket machine off, they appear to be turning the connectivity to the outside world off. it's Ticketer machines being used in these cases that I am speaking about. They're clicking something in the bottom of the main screen to toggle something when this happens. I've not seen it with any of the bigger groups, mostly with smaller operators across, not just in East Anglia but across the wider country.

Don't think it's lack of signal because the place that the bus starts tracking always seems to be prompted by someone paying by card rather than at a specific location. Obviously they'd have to turn the connectivity to the outside world on in order to take a card payment so that probably enables the GPS at the same time.

I wonder if the smaller operators and independents are not so fond of tracking than the groups are?
 
markymark2000

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F Great Eastern said:
They're not turning the ticket machine off, they appear to be turning the connectivity to the outside world off. it's Ticketer machines being used in these cases that I am speaking about. They're clicking something in the bottom of the main screen to toggle something when this happens. I've not seen it with any of the bigger groups, mostly with smaller operators across, not just in East Anglia but across the wider country.

Don't think it's lack of signal because the place that the bus starts tracking always seems to be prompted by someone paying by card rather than at a specific location. Obviously they'd have to turn the connectivity to the outside world on in order to take a card payment so that probably enables the GPS at the same time.

I wonder if the smaller operators and independents are not so fond of tracking than the groups are?
Click to expand...
I have not seen any instanced of this happening and I know that if it was that easy to turn GPS off, a lot more drivers would probably do it. The tracking wouldn't just affect what we, as the public can see but also what the operator sees in the depot (or on the Ticketer cloud system) so that is something quite important that needs addressing.

AS for the signal, I was thinking possibly if the bus loses signal, it doesn't try to reconnect until the screen is tapped or it's reenabled. I can imagine some parts of East Anglia having issues with signal. I think it might be worth emailing the companies and asking why it is happening or asking the drivers as it's a very strange thing to be happening.
 
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borage

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There’s a Ticketer driver pocket guide at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/559437/response/1327711/attach/4/Driver Pocket Guide 2018.pdf. It doesn’t mention manually switching GPS on or off, only:

The <GPS> (satellite) and <GPRS> (network) icons indicate whether the ETM has GPS line of sight and GPRS connectivity to the Ticketer back office.
A green tick indicates a successful connection has been established, whereas a red cross indicates a failure to connect to that network. Amber indicates a connection is being established.
Clicking on either of these icons will display the last time the ETM connected to either network.
Click to expand...
 
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Cesarcollie

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F Great Eastern said:
They're not turning the ticket machine off, they appear to be turning the connectivity to the outside world off. it's Ticketer machines being used in these cases that I am speaking about. They're clicking something in the bottom of the main screen to toggle something when this happens. I've not seen it with any of the bigger groups, mostly with smaller operators across, not just in East Anglia but across the wider country.

Don't think it's lack of signal because the place that the bus starts tracking always seems to be prompted by someone paying by card rather than at a specific location. Obviously they'd have to turn the connectivity to the outside world on in order to take a card payment so that probably enables the GPS at the same time.

I wonder if the smaller operators and independents are not so fond of tracking than the groups are?
Click to expand...

You can’t ‘turn off’ connectivity on Ticketer (other than by dismantling the machine and removing various components!). Obviously in some areas there will be no signal or a poor signal due to geography or topography but to suggest drivers have any influence is plain wrong.
 
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Andyh82

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In my area, it’s fast going the way of Wikipedia where overly enthusiastic know it all types are changing stuff too quickly and jumping the gun.

So buses are being deleted the second they hear something is happening, so you can’t see when they were last used, or the history. Buses are changing fleets and allocations within fleets based on plans of assumptions, despite still tracking live in the old location.
 
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RELL6L

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With the usual caveats about accuracy etc Bustimes is providing a fascinating impact of the snow in Yorkshire today. Very little running around Bradford, Halifax etc but a few buses out which have clearly been horrendously caught out. Take every as preceded by "Assuming this is accurate..." - and note it is 14.25 as I type this-

> On the Keighley 60, bus 402 that left Greengates for Leeds at 08.46 hasn't got to Kirkstall yet, having been stationery for about 3 hours
> Also on the 60, bus 2796 that left Leeds for Greengates at 09.10 hasn't yet got there
> There's an Arriva 268, bus 1516, which left Wakefield at 07.19, got as far as the edge of Bradford about 2 hours later, then appears to have left Bradford at 09.59 but is still near the city centre
> Another 268, bus 1517, left Wakefield at 10.00 and has just made it to Heckmondwyke
> Arriva 1945 on the 229 has been going round in circles SW of Leeds since about 10.00 and seems to be about where it started
> The Harrogate 36 is clearly not running through either although it seems better north of Harrogate
> Keighley bus 157 on the K17 appears to have left Cullingworth at 07.21 and has been in Wilsden for nearly 7 hours!
> First 32518 left Halifax on the 537 for Huddersfield at 08.09, it is now on the edge of Stainland where it has been for the last 4 hours
> First Huddersfield 66786 was virtually stationery on the 372 near Lindley for about 5 hours but is now on the move again
> First 33879 left Halifax on the 508 for Leeds at 07.46, got to somewhere near Pudsey about 13.30 and is now nearly back at Halifax
> Almost nothing else out in these areas at all
> About the only bus out near Wakefield is a 444, Arriva bus 1708, which left the edge of Leeds at 10.00 and has just made it to Wakefield

It's a problem further south too, there's a Stagecoach 218 (bus 37100) which left Rotherham at 09.13 and hasn't made it to Barnsley yet and appears to be headed in the wrong direction (presumably back to Rawmarsh).

Interesting to look at - but now I've got some work to do.....
 
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Andyh82

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Yes I've also had a look at bustimes for this sort of info today

There were two buses stuck at Southowram on the 571 for many hours this morning and two buses at Nunnery Lane for similar lengths

Arriva Yorkshire 1102 is an interesting one, left Halifax at 08:45am on a 255, got stuck at the end of North Bridge, eventually turned around 2 hours later and went back via the town centre, salterhebble, Ainley Top and the M62 to Chain Bar and then though Cleckheaton to get back to Heckmondwike depot by 12:30pm

What Arriva 1945 was trying to do, as per your message above looks odd, seemed to try three different routes and then go back to where it started
 
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RELL6L

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Things seem to be clearing now. Some parts of Yorkshire now entirely devoid of buses, eg Barnsley area. The K17 has just got back to Keighley, it was in Wilsden for 8 hours. The only one still out from post 398 is the 268 in Bradford and I can't work out what this one is doing. Some routes have restarted gingerly but pretty much all of First Leeds, Halifax & Huddersfield also Arriva Yorkshire (except Selby) off the road. Agree, no idea what Arriva 1945 was trying to do!
 
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Ken H

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KLCH Skipton - Lancaster buses seem to be running normally. Not much snow in Settle area. Funny how local some weather is.
 
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Ken H

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Anyone know why Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire 580/581/582 dont track between Kirkby Lonsdale and Settle, but do between Lancaster and Kirkby Lonsdale, and between Settle and Skipton? Its the same bus/ticket machine/driver. I know its NYCC subsidised, bit Kirkby Lonsdale-Lancaster is Lancashire subsidised. I am looking on bustimes.org.
(For those not in the know, buses run through from Skipton to Lancaster, changing numbers at Settle and Kirkby Lonsdale)
 
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43055

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Sounds similar to Midland Classic where only the X12 seems to track but non of the other routes do (they use to).
 
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borage

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Ken H said:
Anyone know why Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire 580/581/582 dont track between Kirkby Lonsdale and Settle, but do between Lancaster and Kirkby Lonsdale, and between Settle and Skipton? Its the same bus/ticket machine/driver. I know its NYCC subsidised, bit Kirkby Lonsdale-Lancaster is Lancashire subsidised. I am looking on bustimes.org.
(For those not in the know, buses run through from Skipton to Lancaster, changing numbers at Settle and Kirkby Lonsdale)
Click to expand...
Are you sure they don't? e.g. here's a tracked journey from Kirkby Lonsdale to Settle https://bustimes.org/services/581-kirkby-lonsdale-settle/vehicles?date=2021-01-30#journeys/102832665

Some journeys from Saturday are missing from that page, e.g. this one which tracked as a 582 all the way from Lancaster to Skipton, https://bustimes.org/services/582-l...2/vehicles?date=2021-01-30#journeys/102871981 as if the driver didn't press the button on the ticket machine or something
 
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First Greater Manchester stopped tracking between 11 and 12 today and not tracked since
 
gka472l

gka472l

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mic said:
First Greater Manchester stopped tracking between 11 and 12 today and not tracked since
Click to expand...
There's quite a lot not tracking today nationwide, probably just a glitch, some stuff has reappeared on Merseyside in the last hour.....
 
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A few operators have been showing seat and wheelchair space availability on, bustimes - I've noticed Go North East and Reliance recently. This morning, both Brighton & Hove and Metrobus are showing the same data.
 
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