West Country Railtours Paignton-Stratford on Avon 11 June

[31160]

tour20220611 – Westcountry Railtours

New company starting running tours this year from the west country (as the name suggests ) starting in Torbay up through Exeter and Taunton the B&H Reading west curve up through Oxford, the left at Warwick for a break at Bards town then back via Henley,Snow hill and Worcester then via Evesham to Oxford then back as outward, some good track for skip bashers there. Nice to have a tour starting at Torbay hasnt been a day tour from there for ages and pick ups at Teignmouth and Dawlish it should pick up a good few passengers hopefully

 

[Whistler40145]

Not very interesting motive power

 

[31160]

Not very interesting motive power

I fully agree but if its that or nothing....

 

[MiNi]

Not very interesting motive power

I agree that a 67 is not everyone's cup of tea but to 'Normals' this trip should be an attraction. I wish them every success,and hope for some heritage traction charters one day.

 

[Graham H]

Good luck to them. I live near Portsmouth and probably like Torbay we get lots of tours coming this way but rarely have a chance to partake on any leaving from down here. A few do leave from Eastleigh but thats generally at 'silly o'clock' so make for a very long day. Some years ago there were some trips that picked up at Havant and the Portsmouth direct line at a reasonable time of day but I do appreciate that to get anywhere interesting takes a while to get north of the M4/London from the south coast.

 

[MarkyT]

There was a steam-hauled Saphos excursion out and back from Torbay last year, on 14th Sept. 'The Welshman' ran from Kingswear to Cardiff and return, topped and tailed by 46100+D1935. Very unusual to hear a steam loco storming up the bank to Torre early in the morning. Unfortunately didn't get a chance to see it.

 

[Cowley]

I must admit that I’m quite taken with this, if nothing else than just to support a tour that starts down here rather than miles away.
I’ve got no interest in the motive power but I think Mrs C might fancy visiting Stratford-Upon-Avon for the day.

 

[bleeder4]

I wish them the best of luck but they're going to have to do a lot of advertising in a very short time. Other than the occasional LSL trip there is a real dearth of trips starting from that area, so people just aren't used to the idea of being able to get a railtour from that neck of the woods. I see they've setup a Facebook page so if they can start getting some of their posts shared by the likes of Devon Live or local newspapers then that would really help. If they can pull it off though then they'll be onto a winner, as they'll have very little competition.

 

[Iskra]

I wish them the best of luck but they're going to have to do a lot of advertising in a very short time. Other than the occasional LSL trip there is a real dearth of trips starting from that area, so people just aren't used to the idea of being able to get a railtour from that neck of the woods. I see they've setup a Facebook page so if they can start getting some of their posts shared by the likes of Devon Live or local newspapers then that would really help. If they can pull it off though then they'll be onto a winner, as they'll have very little competition.

They all have to start somewhere and like @Cowley says, it's worth supporting this one in the hope that it brings more tours to the area in the future. I think 67's worked this line on LHCS stock for VXC back in the day (?) so at least they do have some kind of relevance to the line and they possibly hold more affinity among younger enthusiasts- a young Iskra was very excited about the promise the 67's were designed for on seemingly exotic high speed mail trains at the fastest speeds ...it's just a shame they never fulfilled their potential and the work they were designed for dried up. Still, more interesting than a 66...

 

[47827]

They all have to start somewhere and like @Cowley says, it's worth supporting this one in the hope that it brings more tours to the area in the future. I think 67's worked this line on LHCS stock for VXC back in the day (?) so at least they do have some kind of relevance to the line and they possibly hold more affinity among younger enthusiasts- a young Iskra was very excited about the promise the 67's were designed for on seemingly exotic high speed mail trains at the fastest speeds ...it's just a shame they never fulfilled their potential and the work they were designed for dried up. Still, more interesting than a 66...

Summer Saturdays a few trains each way shortly after XC had dispensed with its own hauled sets, to and from the South West with 67s. Can't remember even whether it was 1 season or 2, or the precise diagrams, as I wasn't fussed other than a passing interest in hearing about what they were up to. The Riviera mk2 stock was slightly longer than the original sets and plenty of ECS moves to and from Crewe involved. Recall some debate about the schedules being pedestrian due to being pathed like charters. Either way I imagine whopping costs prohibited future years and hired in HST sets from other TOCs along with insufficient capacity would have been preferred after that.

 

[Cowley]

Summer Saturdays a few trains each way shortly after XC had dispensed with its own hauled sets, to and from the South West with 67s. Can't remember even whether it was 1 season or 2, or the precise diagrams, as I wasn't fussed other than a passing interest in hearing about what they were up to. The Riviera mk2 stock was slightly longer than the original sets and plenty of ECS moves to and from Crewe involved. Recall some debate about the schedules being pedestrian due to being pathed like charters. Either way I imagine whopping costs prohibited future years and hired in HST sets from other TOCs along with insufficient capacity would have been preferred after that.

I wasn’t that interested either but from memory I think it was a couple of years running and the second year they ran top and tail on a rake of blue and grey mk2 aircons.
I must admit that I thought it was a GWR operation but I may well have got all of that wrong so please don’t take it as gospel!

 

[47827]

I wasn’t that interested either but from memory I think it was a couple of years running and the second year they ran top and tail on a rake of blue and grey mk2 aircons.
I must admit that I thought it was a GWR operation but I may well have got all of that wrong so please don’t take it as gospel!

Summer 2004 was the year of the XC 67s after a quick search. The 90 on a DVT set was also floating around for Birmingham to Manchester for a while longer.

The only blue grey stock I can recall working service trains in the South West in the last 2 decades was the Cargo D rakes working off Bristol to Taunton etc sponsored by First GW at the time. That was about 4 coaches, all standard class incl. a brake.

I'm sure there will be some takers for a railtour off Paignton but work and luck will also need to be added in if it's any type of railtour, especially with Uncle Covid still in existence and having some influences. I imagine few people out there want to see it not succeed.

 

[Cowley]

Summer 2004 was the year of the XC 67s after a quick search. The 90 on a DVT set was also floating around for Birmingham to Manchester for a while longer.

The only blue grey stock I can recall working service trains in the South West in the last 2 decades was the Cargo D rakes working off Bristol to Taunton etc sponsored by First GW at the time. That was about 4 coaches, all standard class incl. a brake.

I'm sure there will be some takers for a railtour off Paignton but work and luck will also need to be added in if it's any type of railtour, especially with Uncle Covid still in existence and having some influences. I imagine few people out there want to see it not succeed.

Thanks @47827, that makes sense.

 

[AnthonyRail]

Sure can remember something silmar few years back and never happened.

 

[31160]

Summer 2004 was the year of the XC 67s after a quick search. The 90 on a DVT set was also floating around for Birmingham to Manchester for a while longer.

The only blue grey stock I can recall working service trains in the South West in the last 2 decades was the Cargo D rakes working off Bristol to Taunton etc sponsored by First GW at the time. That was about 4 coaches, all standard class incl. a brake.

I'm sure there will be some takers for a railtour off Paignton but work and luck will also need to be added in if it's any type of railtour, especially with Uncle Covid still in existence and having some influences. I imagine few people out there want to see it not succeed.

Im pretty sure the same time the Taunton to Cardiff diagrams were working there was a short term Cardiff to Paignton diagram as well, definitely did that on a Devon day ranger a couple of times

Langstone Rock 67 017

A traction shortage during 2010 led to a loco hauled service during the summer months to meet demand on the busy holiday route through Devon. DB class 67 017 "Arrow" is seen here passing Langstone Rock with a short rake of Blue and Grey Cargo D stock on 2U20 Cardiff - Paignton service. July...

www.flickr.com

 

[B7rleThrasher]

From their website:

“It is with great regret that we must advise that our first two tours are unable to go ahead as planned, we have recently been advised by our train operating company that they are unable to resource the necessary traction and drivers for these tours.

Further to this, our rolling stock provider decided they would not be able to accept any further tour proposals from us going forward. It may be coincidence, but this came about only days after we advised that the restrictions on our pick-up points and operating locations seemed a little unfair.

We are already in discussions with other rolling stock and train operators to see if a suitable alternative can be found, with one already expressing a real interest in the operation.

I am sure many of you will appreciate that this could take a little time and is going to delay the start of our rail tour program for 2022 as we make the necessary arrangements.

This is very disappointing news, but we can ensure everyone, we are working hard to overcome the problems encountered and move forward.

We would like to thank all those people who have already booked on our first tour and in light of this news have taken the decision to fully refund everyone, with refunds being made within the next 14 days.

We will update everyone on our progress as soon as we can, hopefully within the next 28 days.”

 

[47827]

Sad to hear, especially for the sake of those booked who don't get trips from that end very often. Won't comment on the destination choice as I'm not aware of anyone who has attempted from that area (thus no idea whether it would have filled or not). I'm not convinced demand would have been as high from the alleged refused pickup of Bristol, as further south given how short a drive it is to Stratford (and am not convinced Riviera would refuse Temple Meads in a spec without the promoter saying something unusual that unnerved them into doing that given its just one stop and not remotely Pathfinder's sole make or break joining point).

Recalling how the process works I have a suspicion the train wasn't yet bid to Network Rail as DB potentially hadn't made the final viability check against driver roster resources thus a price may have been offered but that by no means guaranteed it was formerly accepted by the TOC. In fact with Riviera no train would be set in stone (short of unforeseen last minute hiccups) until Network Rail gets the formal request.

Sad as it is, and I hope it gets off the ground still in some form, I suspect the promoter has been caught out here by the unusual way things work with due process and formalities within these companies (and that industry) and that is why it's actually been pulled from the booking options, so it isn't DB pulling a train this far ahead, suddenly saying there's no resources, as in fact (now it's looked at the job properly) it was never confident enough to run it in the first place. The same applies be it DRS, DB etc.

 

[Iskra]

I think there’s a bit more to this; on their FB page they (apparently) said there had been poor bookings. I think it probably came to the point they had to stump up some cash and they either a) didn’t have it due to lack of bookings b) if they did, weren’t prepared to risk running the tour from a loss making position (understandably).

Although they don’t name them, it’s probably not the best idea to express frustration at Riviera Trains publicly either.

 

[31160]

I dont know why not, if i went to them to hire a rake of coaches only to be told oh you cant pick up passengers at Bristol because pathfinder etec etc then i wouldn't be over to moon either

 

[Iskra]

I dont know why not, if i went to them to hire a rake of coaches only to be told oh you cant pick up passengers at Bristol because pathfinder etec etc then i wouldn't be over to moon either

Riviera own Pathfinder, so there was always going to be a conflict of interest eventually. Other operators exist.

 

[47827]

I suspect the Bristol thing has more to the story. Riviera have never stopped anyone using one specific pickup because of Pathfinder before that I am aware of so they would need to been told something that made them think more carefully on this occasion. Fares between £119 and £265 to an average (albeit OK) destination that's normally maybe 2 hours away by car for Bristol folk doesn't give the impression it would be knocked back by Riviera as I couldn't see it costing Pathfinder any business) especially with them not out the same day). Pathfinder also tend to go a lot further and often serve more (or different) markets so the claim doesn't add up unless something else was said about Bristol behind closed doors to unnerve Riviera.

Let's hope their negotiations with ROG in Derby prove better (the only mixed class Mk3s I can think of), as LSL aren't fussed about 3rd party work "usually" so don't see it being them.

 

[31160]

Riviera own Pathfinder, so there was always going to be a conflict of interest eventually. Other operators exist.

I know that, but there are only three? Places to get stock from so if Pathfinder/Riv are saying nobodys elses charters from south of Birmingham because they might attract the same passengers,protectionism at its worst. Having other options apart from them might make them up there game a bit instead of a one one team region of the country. I only hope ROG get their MK3 rake into play a bit more to give others a chance. Although in the long term moving away from Riviera might also be beneficial from the point of view of the passengers the MK 1 rake might be nostalgic for some but the interior of them leaves a lot to be desired, with DRS pulling the plug on charters now i suspect we will get more 50 tours now, i hearing talk of a 3 day Scottish tour in July dunno where its going to mind. Also does the Riviera/DBC (latterly EWS) rail alliance still stand, i used to be the case when all DBC charter work was done using Riv stock, as i say i dont know if thats still current but i cant remember seeing any DBC loco on anyone's elses stock

 

[Iskra]

I suspect the Bristol thing has more to the story. Riviera have never stopped anyone using one specific pickup because of Pathfinder before that I am aware of so they would need to been told something that made them think more carefully on this occasion. Fares between £119 and £265 to an average (albeit OK) destination that's normally maybe 2 hours away by car for Bristol folk doesn't give the impression it would be knocked back by Riviera as I coluldng see it costing Pathfinder any business) especially with them not out the same day). Pathfinder also tend to go a lot further and often serve more (or different) markets so the claim doesn't add up unless something else was said about Bristol behind closed doors to unnerve Riviera.

Let's hope their negotiations with ROG in Derby prove better (the only mixed class Mk3s I can think of), as LSL aren't fussed about 3rd party work "usually" so don't see it being them.

WCRC could operate such a tour and provide locos, stock and staff in one fell swoop. But then they could just run a railtour like the one advertised themselves if they wanted. Maybe that would be a better way to prove the market anyway as they have more of a reputation, a pre-existing mailing list and arguably more interesting traction to offer.

 

[47827]

WCRC could operate such a tour and provide locos, stock and staff in one fell swoop. But then they could just run a railtour like the one advertised themselves if they wanted. Maybe that would be a better way to prove the market anyway as they have more of a reputation, a pre-existing mailing list and arguably more interesting traction to offer.

It's not intended as a criticism, as it's their choice entirely, but they have little interest in third party work now that isn't with or via established customers such as SRPS, RTC and Steam Dreams. They get to choose what they run then and how much the stock is used that way. It did mean the end for a small number of promoters over time but that's the way the industry was headed and still is. Riviera prefers third party work but generally only via established customers unless the price is very right or high enough.

 

[MiNi]

It's not intended as a criticism, as it's their choice entirely, but they have little interest in third party work now that isn't with or via established customers such as SRPS, RTC and Steam Dreams. They get to choose what they run then and how much the stock is used that way. It did mean the end for a small number of promoters over time but that's the way the industry was headed and still is. Riviera prefers third party work but generally only via established customers unless the price is very right or high enough.

I agree with the above posts,I don't think LSL will be interested at all. WCRC probably wouldn't be interested as they already have their fingers in many pie's with their 'regular' customers.ROG could be a option for them but we will have to wait and see.

 

[nanstallon]

All very British - closed shop in reality, although of course not in name.

 

[47827]

All very British - closed shop in reality, although of course not in name.

Closed shop (almost) or a "gentleman's club". A little bit of what goes on in the industry in entirely justified but more of it is to do with the leftovers of privatisation that steadily killed off said industry by removing the volume of choices and cost effective options for new entrants. There are ways in but only if you are pally with the right faces and have a something up your sleeve that allows you into the club. A few people have had the alternative way in by simply working for the in house stock owners and operating companies. See LSL, WCRC etc as its simply too hard otherwise.

 

[31160]

Yes i fully agree about LSL, although they have run a BLS trip and the tour to Edinburgh with the CFPS i think due to the social media reaction to those two i would be very surprised if they even want to do that again, they do seam very thin skinned in that regard, sad really as they do have by far the best condition rolling stock and put both Riviera and WCRC in second class in relation to the travelling experience, and of course having the transport minister on speed dial would help in smoothing the path of your train

 

[47827]

Yes i fully agree about LSL, although they have run a BLS trip and the tour to Edinburgh with the CFPS i think due to the social media reaction to those two i would be very surprised if they even want to do that again, they do seam very thin skinned in that regard, sad really as they do have by far the best condition rolling stock and put both Riviera and WCRC in second class in relation to the travelling experience, and of course having the transport minister on speed dial would help in smoothing the path of your train

The 2 jobs in question:

1) A few people are aware by now the chap currently in charge of the BLS is also overseeing IC Railtours planning, social media and on the day incl. provision of other stewards (so he gets a few favours off LSL once in a while in return).

2) CFPS Railtour to Edinburgh part of the wider sweetener deal by LSL to allow continued lease/hire of 40145. It was finally agreed in the form it ran following the aftermath of lack of space on the Plymouth railtour which sold out too quickly. Had LSL foreseen that it didn't prevent future issues with the membership I imagine they would have not run it. Going briefly back onto that topic I'm aiming to stay neutral as its been widely commentated on another topic thread.

So back onto the other subject, not many options for tours left.

 

[Brush 4]

I've heard of track bashers but, what is a skip basher? Riding in lorries carrying skips?