West Riding train services in 1964 - a map

[30907]

And could you not have been really picky three versions ago?

I thought I was being picky enough then

No, I didn't look beyond the county boundary. But now I have, I can't fault the rest, except Kirkby Stephen to the Lake District which is perhaps stretching a point.

And yes, it's an impressive piece of work, well worth the forum nitpickers' attention.

 

[ian1944]

As others have said, a very nice piece of work. From a history of the Ribble Valley line:The line between Blackburn and Hellifield was closed to passengers on 10 September 1962 but continued to be used for diversions and for freight, and until 15 August 1964 there was a Saturdays-only train from Manchester to Glasgow which used this route. But as this was (presumably) non-stop, it wouldn't be right to show a Clitheroe link from Hellifield - pity, as it would be nice to have another connection to alien territory.

 

[YorksLad12]

We enjoy being picky on here,you should know that by now.
Seriously,it's a great piece of work,well done.

I thought I was being picky enough then

No, I didn't look beyond the county boundary. But now I have, I can't fault the rest, except Kirkby Stephen to the Lake District which is perhaps stretching a point.

And yes, it's an impressive piece of work, well worth the forum nitpickers' attention.

My fault for joining a forum full of pedant's...

That said, it does appear I should reinstate the Todmorden Curve as there were still passenger services up to 1965. Or a two-line arrow with a single head pointing to the one note. I'm also trying to add in the names of the counties outside the West Riding. Artfully, of course

As others have said, a very nice piece of work. From a history of the Ribble Valley line:The line between Blackburn and Hellifield was closed to passengers on 10 September 1962 but continued to be used for diversions and for freight, and until 15 August 1964 there was a Saturdays-only train from Manchester to Glasgow which used this route. But as this was (presumably) non-stop, it wouldn't be right to show a Clitheroe link from Hellifield - pity, as it would be nice to have another connection to alien territory.

Thanks. Yes, I've tried to exclude non-stop/non-local services as it would have meant adding a few lines and curves not normally in use, such as Castleford to Blackpool via Heckmondwike and Low Moor mentioned above.

Really, the arrows ought all to be inward. Why would anyone want to go to Lancashire, except on missionary work?

 

[30907]

My fault for joining a forum full of pedant's...

...so I can't resist pointing out the superfluous apostrophe

From Colne you could add Accrington and Manchester, as the route via Baxenden Bank was still open.

Really, the arrows ought all to be inward. Why would anyone want to go to Lancashire, except on missionary work?

Speaking as a recently retired missionary ... my Kentish passport was useful

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Was wondering whether Bradford Exchange should appear diagrammatically on the 1964 West Riding map as a spur. (Like Brighton or Littlehampton on the South coast might?)

Any validity to my previous comment? Does still look (to me) as if "Blue line" trains go into Bradford Exchange and then carry on, out the other side.

 

[YorksLad12]

...so I can't resist pointing out the superfluous apostrophe

You know I did that on purpose, didn't you?

Any validity to my previous comment? Does still look (to me) as if "Blue line" trains go into Bradford Exchange and then carry on, out the other side.

The original MetroTrain map doesn't show reversals, by design; it shows stations in sequence. So while trains couldn't physically run out the other side they did run between Leeds and Halifax via Exchange, as now.

 

[alistairlees]

The original MetroTrain map doesn't show reversals, by design; it shows stations in sequence. So while trains couldn't physically run out the other side they did run between Leeds and Halifax via Exchange, as now.

If you have an original map (or several) could you post those too, please? It would be interesting to compare.

 

[30907]

If you have an original map (or several) could you post those too, please? It would be interesting to compare.

You can find them online - this is 2008 but the design hasn't changed much over the years. https://www.google.com/search?q=wy+metro+map

 

[alistairlees]

You can find them online - this is 2008 but the design hasn't changed much over the years. https://www.google.com/search?q=wy+metro+map

Thanks. I used to live in Wharfedale, so I'm familiar with the line of route maps. I was having problems finding a network map from the 80s - if such a thing exists.

 

[YorksLad12]

Thanks. I used to live in Wharfedale, so I'm familiar with the line of route maps. I was having problems finding a network map from the 80s - if such a thing exists.

Not very large but I found this scan I'd done previously of the MetroTrain diagram from around 1988-ish. I might have a "modern" one from before 2000 somewhere (pre-websites), I'll dig around and do some scanning.

 

[alistairlees]

Not very large but I found this scan I'd done previously of the MetroTrain diagram from around 1988-ish. I might have a "modern" one from before 2000 somewhere (pre-websites), I'll dig around and do some scanning.

Thanks! The Dearne Valley Line was always the poor relation. I see they struggled with Shipley too.

Not very large but I found this scan I'd done previously of the MetroTrain diagram from around 1988-ish. I might have a "modern" one from before 2000 somewhere (pre-websites), I'll dig around and do some scanning.

I don't think the map dates from 1988. It doesn't have Frizinghall, East Garforth or Sandal & Agbrigg on it - they all opened in 1987.

 

[JRT]

Thanks! The Dearne Valley Line was always the poor relation. I see they struggled with Shipley too.


I don't think the map dates from 1988. It doesn't have Frizinghall, East Garforth or Sandal & Agbrigg on it - they all opene

The map is accurate at 1986, as it includes stations (re)opened before that year but not the ones after that year.

 

[eastwestdivide]

My fault for joining a forum full of pedant's...

I prefer winding people up with 'pendants' - give them enough rope ect.

 

[TheSel]

YorksLad12 said:
My fault for joining a forum full of pedant's...

...so I can't resist pointing out the superfluous apostrophe

Er ... sorry to be pedantic(!), but Yorkslad12's apostrophe wasn't superfluous - it was incorrect.

Superfluous means unnecessary, usually in the way of being more than enough. But it doesn't alter the actual meaning of the words used. A bit like saying something is damp and moist. You don't need to use both words, they mean the same thing, but the meaning of the whole sentence is still clear.

However, "pedant's" means belonging to a pedant (and, significantly, just one pedant), whereas "pedants" (which I believe is what was intended) is the plural form of "pedant" - so more than one pedant.

So the question in response to @YorksLad12 should perhaps have been "You believe this forum to be full of pedant's ... what? Thoughts? ideas? Musings? Nonsense?"

Below is a picture of a real-world example, from an advert for a loyalty card valid on the Wrexham - Oswestry bus service:


In this example, "journey's" should read "journeys".

Not that I'm a pedant, of course!

 

[30907]

Er ... sorry to be pedantic(!), but Yorkslad12's apostrophe wasn't superfluous - it was incorrect.

That'll learn me (or if you prefer, teach me)

 

[YorksLad12]

Thanks! The Dearne Valley Line was always the poor relation. I see they struggled with Shipley too.


I don't think the map dates from 1988. It doesn't have Frizinghall, East Garforth or Sandal & Agbrigg on it - they all opened in 1987.

I did say "-ish"

What's interesting about that diagram is that the Wakefield Line service to Sheffield isn't there yet; Moorthorpe to Sheffield is part of the Dearne Valley Line (remember; it looks like a poor relation because it's only highlighting the bit in West Yorkshire). It's actually much closer to the British Rail West Riding poster from an earlier post as it also include Sheffield-Doncaster and Doncaster-York. And, no services to Piccadilly!

 

[Inversnecky]

Er ... sorry to be pedantic(!), but Yorkslad12's apostrophe wasn't superfluous - it was incorrect.

Superfluous means unnecessary, usually in the way of being more than enough. But it doesn't alter the actual meaning of the words used. A bit like saying something is damp and moist. You don't need to use both words, they mean the same thing, but the meaning of the whole sentence is still clear.

However, "pedant's" means belonging to a pedant (and, significantly, just one pedant), whereas "pedants" (which I believe is what was intended) is the plural form of "pedant" - so more than one pedant.

So the question in response to @YorksLad12 should perhaps have been "You believe this forum to be full of pedant's ... what? Thoughts? ideas? Musings? Nonsense?"

Below is a picture of a real-world example, from an advert for a loyalty card valid on the Wrexham - Oswestry bus service:

View attachment 91415
In this example, "journey's" should read "journeys".

Not that I'm a pedant, of course!

What gets me is when you see both correct and incorrect in the same phrase in a shop, like " apples and orange's ".

I notice Microsift Word has a good spellckecker, but Apple's iphone is terrible, confusing its and it's.

Sorry for steering further OT!

 

[YorksLad12]

Found some more old versions of the post-1988 map so you can see its evolution. I don't think I have a colour version of the pre-1988 map I shared above, although I'm certain there will have been one. I've also reached version 1.2 of my West Riding map, also attached; general tidy-up around Colne, plus I had another look at the and/& and changed a couple of names based on best guesswork

 

[alistairlees]

I didn’t know about “Thornhill (opening 1991)”, which is on the first map.

 

[YorksLad12]

I didn’t know about “Thornhill (opening 1991)”, which is on the first map.

Yes... can't recall why it never actually made it into the reopening programme. Perhaps the hourly service made building even two B&Q decking platforms too expensive!

 

[JRT]

I didn’t know about “Thornhill (opening 1991)”, which is on the first map.

Thornhill Lees

Located east of Ravensthorpe on the Wakefield-Huddersfield route, the station was ruled out in stage 2 of the New Stations Study because of the low service frequency and domination of short journeys to Wakefield and Huddersfield, leading to poor revenue generation.

 

[YorksLad12]

Thornhill Lees

Located east of Ravensthorpe on the Wakefield-Huddersfield route, the station was ruled out in stage 2 of the New Stations Study because of the low service frequency and domination of short journeys to Wakefield and Huddersfield, leading to poor revenue generation.

That's the New Stations Study from c.2014, isn't it? It must have been in the programme at some point in 1989 or 1990 (RailPlan 2 days) to have made it onto the map.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thornhill Lees

Located east of Ravensthorpe on the Wakefield-Huddersfield route, the station was ruled out in stage 2 of the New Stations Study because of the low service frequency and domination of short journeys to Wakefield and Huddersfield, leading to poor revenue generation.

The irony there being that for a large chunk of the 1990s the Huddersfield to Wakefield service was linked to the Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria locals- including extensions beyond Manchester to such exotic locations as Llandudno!