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West Riding train services in 1964 - a map

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alistairlees

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If you're including seasonal trains then there used to be a train from the North East to Blackpool that ran via Harrogate and Otley. Not sure if it was still running in 1964.
Around about this time there were also some York-Selby-Hull trains that routed via Church Fenton. These were loco hauled and ran that way to avoid reversal at Selby. Not sure if they made intermediate calls.
And speaking of Selby, Hemingborough station, approx 2 miles east was still open and had through trains to Leeds.
Hemingbrough was not in the West Riding though
 
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YorksLad12

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:!: Version 1.0 alert :!:

There will undoubtedly be a version 1.1 by the end of the week (or even the day), but here's where we are with the 'published' version. Since the last version I shared I've added a direct line for Castleford-Kirkgate services (which we all forgot about, oddly) and I know some of you will be pleased to see that I spent this afternoon redoing the Shipley area to show where the station and platforms are/were in relation to the lines. Literally, the whole afternoon...

I left out the connection from Horbury to Heckmondwike as there were no local services... unless you know differently. In which case, leave it for a couple of days ;)

If you have software that can edit .svg files I've uploaded the latest version to ideopolis.uk/MetroTrain1964v23.svg - but if you do make any changes (or even improvements) do share back.
 

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Bevan Price

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Your choice as to whether or not you want to adjust any colours, of course, but some comments about service patterns in 1964 might assist any future edits.
1. Wakefield Kirkgate - Featherstone - Knottingley - Goole (No Goole services from Leeds) (+ "express", Manchester Vic / Hull, one each way, and a few summer extras. )
2. Leeds - Woodlesford - Castleford Cutsyke - Knottingley (handful per day)
3. Leeds - Stanley - Castleford Central - Pontefract Monkhill & Baghill
(some short workings to Castleford)
4. Service between Castleford Central, Normanton & Wakefield Kirkgate was sparse; most originated at York, and continued beyond Wakefield to Sowerby Bridge or Manchester Victoria . On this line, the only trains originating from Castleford were summer saturday services. Also, between Castleford & York, most were non-stop; only 1-2 each way called at Sherburn in Elmet or Church Fenton.

Forgot to add:
Church Fenton - Wetherby - Cross Gates - Leeds was one per day, in that direction only.
Leeds - Cross Gates - Wetherby - Harrogate was mostly through service to Harrogate, with some short workings to Wetherby only.
 

YorksLad12

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Forgot to add:
Church Fenton - Wetherby - Cross Gates - Leeds was one per day, in that direction only.
Leeds - Cross Gates - Wetherby - Harrogate was mostly through service to Harrogate, with some short workings to Wetherby only.
I thought the shuttle was Wetherby-Harrogate, and the through service to Church Fenton. Bradshaw's 1961 timetable N37 seems to show Saturday-only services as running through. Looks as through I should have left it as I had it originally, as a 'Y' junction.
 

alistairlees

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It’s a great map and I very much admire your skill and effort in creating this.

a couple of typos that I just spotted though:
- Conisbrough
- Chapeltown

sorry!
 

Bevan Price

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I thought the shuttle was Wetherby-Harrogate, and the through service to Church Fenton. Bradshaw's 1961 timetable N37 seems to show Saturday-only services as running through. Looks as through I should have left it as I had it originally, as a 'Y' junction.
Out of interest, and omitting express services, local services on Wetherby lines in Summer 1963 were:
Leeds - Harrogate: 10:25 (SO); 12:15 (SO); 16:25 (SO); 17:35
Leeds - Wetherby: 07:26; 12:20 (SX); 16:17 (SX);

Harrogate - Wetherby - Leeds: 06:39; 07:34; 12:40 (SO); 18:06 (SO)
Wetherby - Leeds: 08:40; 13:00 (SX); 16:56 (SX)
Church Fenton - Wetherby - Leeds 07:44.

With such a lousy service, it is easy to understand why it had no chance of surviving.
None of the express services called at Wetherby. And who did they expect to use Tadcaster station, with just one train per day,
(Current population is over 6000)

Incidentally, the timetable advertised Day Returns from Wetherby to Harrogate for 2 shillings - but failed to mention that such a journey was impossible on SX.
 

unslet

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Rail tickets were accepted on certain West Yorkshire Road Car Company buses to enable return journeys to be completed.
Not ideal,but that's how it was.
 

YorksLad12

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It’s a great map and I very much admire your skill and effort in creating this.

a couple of typos that I just spotted though:
- Conisbrough
- Chapeltown

sorry!
[FX: sound of someone grumpily reopening a file somewhere...] :)
And thanks, of course!


Out of interest, and omitting express services, local services on Wetherby lines in Summer 1963 were:
Leeds - Harrogate: 10:25 (SO); 12:15 (SO); 16:25 (SO); 17:35
Leeds - Wetherby: 07:26; 12:20 (SX); 16:17 (SX);

Harrogate - Wetherby - Leeds: 06:39; 07:34; 12:40 (SO); 18:06 (SO)
Wetherby - Leeds: 08:40; 13:00 (SX); 16:56 (SX)
Church Fenton - Wetherby - Leeds 07:44.

With such a lousy service, it is easy to understand why it had no chance of surviving.
None of the express services called at Wetherby. And who did they expect to use Tadcaster station, with just one train per day,
(Current population is over 6000)

Incidentally, the timetable advertised Day Returns from Wetherby to Harrogate for 2 shillings - but failed to mention that such a journey was impossible on SX.

Rail tickets were accepted on certain West Yorkshire Road Car Company buses to enable return journeys to be completed.
Not ideal,but that's how it was.
If I'd done the 'Limited Services' thing I guess that this would have been a shoo-in. Bizarre to think how run down that route was before closure when five years later it would probably have had a more regular service, at least between Leeds and Wetherby (with extensions to Harrogate).
 

eastwestdivide

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Sterling work. Manchester next?

Proper nit-picking time: where stations are named after two places, some have the word written out as "and", e.g. "Elsecar and Hoyland", while others have an ampersand, e.g. "Parkgate & Rawmarsh". Was that intentional? Were some stations actually named one way and others the other?
 

YorksLad12

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Sterling work. Manchester next?

Proper nit-picking time: where stations are named after two places, some have the word written out as "and", e.g. "Elsecar and Hoyland", while others have an ampersand, e.g. "Parkgate & Rawmarsh". Was that intentional? Were some stations actually named one way and others the other?
Yes - admittedly, I might have got one of those wrong. I think the standard back then was "and" but today's "Steeton & Silsden" is correct. Whether it was "&" or "and" in 1964 I would have to re-check.

Edit So I looked on Wiki. It says "Steeton and Silsden" as the name; but then it also has a page called "Kildwick and Crosshills" that shows the station being called "Kildwick & Crosshills" in the history side-panel, so that's no help at all.

Then I looked at the 1961 Bradshaw, which has "Kildwick and Cross Hills" and "Steeton & Silsden" in the Index to Stations. The 1964 North Eastern Region timetables has "Kildwick & Crosshills" and "Steeton and Silsden" in the Index.

So who knows? Bear in mind that there's a station in east Leeds that says "Cross Gates" on one platform and "Crossgates" on the other o_O
 
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CW2

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One plea / suggestion: Red/Green colourblindness affects about 8% of UK males, and is a registered disability. As such, most mapmakers try (although not all succeed) to place red and green in distinct and separate areas of the map, so there is a lower chance of them being confused. Unfortunately you have chosen to use them in exactly the same area i.e. Leeds / Bradford to Skipton / Ilkley. It would improve matters if you would swap one of them with a contrasting colour in use elsewhere on the map. (This is also a useful point to remember for any future maps you go on to produce).

Top piece of work. Well done.
 

YorksLad12

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One plea / suggestion: Red/Green colourblindness affects about 8% of UK males, and is a registered disability. As such, most mapmakers try (although not all succeed) to place red and green in distinct and separate areas of the map, so there is a lower chance of them being confused. Unfortunately you have chosen to use them in exactly the same area i.e. Leeds / Bradford to Skipton / Ilkley. It would improve matters if you would swap one of them with a contrasting colour in use elsewhere on the map. (This is also a useful point to remember for any future maps you go on to produce).

Top piece of work. Well done.
Very, very true. And my defence in this case is that I adapted an existing map. Some of the colours have been associated with their routes for longer than the MetroTrain map - which may be why no-one thought to change them in 1988. But it is something I raise in my day job (when I'm working) if I notice it, as well as things like point sizes, or not putting text on a patterned background.
 

JRT

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One plea / suggestion: Red/Green colourblindness affects about 8% of UK males, and is a registered disability. As such, most mapmakers try (although not all succeed) to place red and green in distinct and separate areas of the map, so there is a lower chance of them being confused. Unfortunately you have chosen to use them in exactly the same area i.e. Leeds / Bradford to Skipton / Ilkley. It would improve matters if you would swap one of them with a contrasting colour in use elsewhere on the map. (This is also a useful point to remember for any future maps you go on to produce).

Top piece of work. Well done.
Red and green have been associated with the North Bradford routes for many years and I don't remember any complaints first time round. At least if you can't tell the difference you are in the correct part of the map.
 

Grumpy

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With such a lousy service, it is easy to understand why it had no chance of surviving.
Indeed. They shut the wrong line down between Leeds and Harrogate. The current route between Horsforth and Pannal is MAMBAland. The route via Wetherby runs through a succession of prosperous communities and could have been developed to be as successful as the Airedale/Wharfedale lines
 

unslet

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Coming from Cross Gates(that's how I always spelled it),the totems at the time of your map used 2 separate words,so I'd go with that.
 

YorksLad12

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Coming from Cross Gates(that's how I always spelled it),the totems at the time of your map used 2 separate words,so I'd go with that.
There's good reasoning behind it (not sure the technicalities) but it should be Cross Gates for the location, Crossgates Centre for the shopping centre located in Cross Gates. The station takes its name from the location, so should be Cross Gates.

Hilariously, just looking at Google Maps; the totem outside the car park entrance says "Steeton and Silsden" on one side, "Steeton & Silsden" on the other. The other totem has "and" on both sides.
 

Greetlander

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Ta. I can see why the lesser-used New Line stations were closed, but the Spen Valley ("Central") ones were... central to their locations. Short-sighted closure for me.

On Shepley & Shelly: I used sites such as Disused Stations, Lost Railways West Yorkshire and Wikipedia to check for oddities like that (which is why I belatedly had to squeeze in "and Whitwood" next to Altofts) but they aren't always complete.


Thanks. And... no! Someone else did a wondrous map with the service levels across the GB network. I haven't that much patience.

The MetroTrain map was designed by FWT in 1988, I took the 2010 version and updated it for 2020 last year, partly as an exercise to learn the software; so I am standing on the shoulders of giants a bit! The design philosophy is theirs; I've adapted where necessary - no (M) station marks as we didn't have Metro in 1964 - but I've tried to do 'a version' rather than my own thing.


I wasn't sure about direct Otley-Harrogate via Arthington services but if they weren't in the published timetable I'll leave that connection off. I've a similar problem with Wetherby. The 1958 Goodall's timetable has services running from Leeds to Wetherby and on to Church Fenton, with a shuttle between Wetherby and Harrogate. If that's correct I need to break the direct route between Harrogate and Church Fenton (not difficult).

I've attached a photo from eBay of the sign that started me thinking. Castervale Line, anyone? o_O
OOH - my Halifax heart is livid at what they've turned my home town station into. Love your map btw
 

SteveM70

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This is excellent. One question though - why do you show Rochdale as the next station outside the West Riding area when it was (presumably) Walsden, then Littleborough and Smithy Bridge? I get that Rochdale is bigger, but you show Brough and Hull so there’s a sort of precedent
 

Mcr Warrior

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Walsden station wasn't open in 1964 was it? (Closed 1961, re-opened 1990, I believe).
 

SteveM70

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Walsden station wasn't open in 1964 was it? (Closed 1961, re-opened 1990, I believe).

I couldn’t remember the dates, hence the slightly self-doubting “presumably”. Littleborough was open right through though?
 

YorksLad12

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This is excellent. One question though - why do you show Rochdale as the next station outside the West Riding area when it was (presumably) Walsden, then Littleborough and Smithy Bridge? I get that Rochdale is bigger, but you show Brough and Hull so there’s a sort of precedent
As noted above, Walsden wasn't open on 1 January 1964.

My original intention was to show the first station over the border on each route. Then I was a bit tight for space at the top so limited it to the first station over the border but still in Yorkshire. Then I just got careless and left in both Mossley and Stalybridge (should be just Mossley) and Rochdale (should be Littleborough) because I did a combined "to Manchester and Liverpool" note instead of doing two, and Woodhead because, well, it's Woodhead.

Basically I've been too close to it to critically evaluate it, which is why I invited forum members to do so. A version 1.1 will follow next month (next week) with a bit more 'rigour' :)
 

Mcr Warrior

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A question if I may...

In 1964, could Bradford Exchange be negotiated by through Leeds - Halifax ("blue line") trains, without effectively going in and out of the station, as is the case with the modern day equivalent?
 

JRT

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A question if I may...

In 1964, could Bradford Exchange be negotiated by through Leeds - Halifax ("blue line") trains, without effectively going in and out of the station, as is the case with the modern day equivalent?
I haven't got the exact dates to hand, but you're probably referring to the Laisterdyke– Low Moor link, used in steam days to eliminate the run round at Bradford Exchange, but ceased useage for passenger trains after DMU Services started 1955. Sometimes used as a diversionary route for express trains in 1959. The through route for goods traffic closed in 1964.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Thanks for clarifying. Was wondering whether Bradford Exchange should appear diagrammatically on the 1964 West Riding map as a spur. (Like Brighton or Littlehampton on the South coast might?)
 

Bevan Price

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I haven't got the exact dates to hand, but you're probably referring to the Laisterdyke– Low Moor link, used in steam days to eliminate the run round at Bradford Exchange, but ceased useage for passenger trains after DMU Services started 1955. Sometimes used as a diversionary route for express trains in 1959. The through route for goods traffic closed in 1964.
No. Only the Leeds - Bradford locals went diesel in 1955. Calder Valley steam continued until about 1961/62, including through trains to Leeds Central via the Laisterdyke / Low Moor line.
 

YorksLad12

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Version 1.1 attached, with corrected speelngs. I've also regularised services across the border, so that the first local station call is shown for each line rather than the major destination (which was something I'd incorrectly inherited from the MetroTrain map). The "and/&" question is harder to solve; my suspicion is that they ought to be "and" but since contemporary maps and timetables all disagree it's difficult to be definitive.
 

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30907

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Version 1.1 attached, with corrected speelngs. I've also regularised services across the border, so that the first local station call is shown for each line rather than the major destination (which was something I'd incorrectly inherited from the MetroTrain map). The "and/&" question is harder to solve; my suspicion is that they ought to be "and" but since contemporary maps and timetables all disagree it's difficult to be definitive.
Really picky, but there was no service from Hebden Bridge via Copy Pit to Colne (except by changing at Rose Grove) - Blackburn would be a better choice, but someone from Accrington would object, so best just omit Colne!
 

YorksLad12

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Really picky, but there was no service from Hebden Bridge via Copy Pit to Colne (except by changing at Rose Grove) - Blackburn would be a better choice, but someone from Accrington would object, so best just omit Colne!
And could you not have been really picky three versions ago? :lol:
 

unslet

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We enjoy being picky on here,you should know that by now.;)
Seriously,it's a great piece of work,well done.
 
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