What’s going on with Thameslink?

[Bald Rick]

This is absolutely no use if one has a set arrival time that is being aimed for.

I 100% disagree. If one has a set arrival time, then for me it is even more important that I check how things are running before departing. If my preferred train is late or cancelled, I get going earlier. It’s not just for trains either; when using the roads I always check the traffic well before I leave.

Perhaps I’m weird in this respect. But I’d rather be weird and make best use of my time than ‘normal’ and get cross about cancelled trains / traffic jams that could be avoided.

Top site although i find combing it with OTT maps as an insurance

same.

 

[WizCastro197]

The 4 Coaches do fine until East Croydon/Purley (off peak) from where most of the passengers alight (ECR) . These 4 coaches then become 8 or 12 from the other service that conjoins at Redhill where the chance of getting a seat is highly likely (with the gained carriages) to ECR either from the Reigate Section or the Gatwick airport part. Sure the Thameslinks absence is irritating but able bodied people can stand for 20 minutes to ECR and change. Its one island platform over its not like you are walking from one end of Clapham to the other.

Thameslink generally have been running fine recently when I have used them. Although there were a few cancellations last Thursday which delayed my friend arriving into London Bridge to meet me

Yes I’ve been noticing some other services from déifièrent
Origins seem to be running adequately of course with a few delays and cancellations but where I live in Redhill pretty much all thameslink trains all day are cancelled and only a few manage to leave.

 

[whoosh]

All because of a bit of hay on the wires between Arlesey and Biggleswade...

View attachment 118977

How is that GTRs fault though? They’ll be advised by Network Rail the line will need to be blocked for engineers to attend to the line? Certain services might be cancelled to take into account the reduced line capacity.

Also could you not see how “a bit of hay” on live electrical lines in the current weather could quite easily turn into a huge fire risk?

Fire risk. Especially when only slightly further north, between Sandy and St Neots, looked like this a couple of weeks ago after a fire in the fields spread to the railway:


Although, I would say the risk from the caught hay being dragged by pantographs and ripping the droppers (between the catenary wire and contact wire) would've been very likely a reason on it's own.

 

[bramling]

I 100% disagree. If one has a set arrival time, then for me it is even more important that I check how things are running before departing. If my preferred train is late or cancelled, I get going earlier. It’s not just for trains either; when using the roads I always check the traffic well before I leave.

Perhaps I’m weird in this respect. But I’d rather be weird and make best use of my time than ‘normal’ and get cross about cancelled trains / traffic jams that could be avoided.

It’s one thing doing it (and to be fair, I’m not averse to checking an app), but it shouldn’t be the *expectation* that one has to do it. The *expectation* should be that the train is going to run, right time. Indeed I got caught out a couple of weekends ago when I forgot to check before setting out, and found three trains on the bounce cancelled.

Perhaps I’m just old-fashioned, however it’s worth remembering that not so long ago there weren’t apps, and indeed there weren’t smart phones either. The only way to check the status of the train service was to fire up a computer and see what information operators were putting out, or indeed stuff like teletext! Certainly in (latter) WAGN days and right through the FCC tenure (give or take the odd weekend “off day”), the trains were sufficiently dependable that one could just turn up.

It really isn’t a great advert for the industry to be saying “you need to check beforehand as it’s highly likely there will be a problem”, which is in effect what you’re saying. If this is supposed to be an improvement on what we had before, then it simply isn’t!

I should also add that if someone is finishing work at a set time, checking an app all the times in the world isn’t going to help them get home any earlier if their particular desired train is cancelled.

 

[Bald Rick]

It really isn’t a great advert for the industry to be saying “you need to check beforehand as it’s highly likely there will be a problem”, which is in effect what you’re saying. If this is supposed to be an improvement on what we had before, then it simply isn’t!

I agree it’s not great, but then there’s a reason why the railway is less reliable than normal at present. And even if it is boringly reliable (like Thameslink has been on the MML side until the summer holidays) then I would still check. Yes there weren’t apps in the past, and it is a great help to now have them - it has certainly made my life better.

 

[Failed Unit]

I agree it’s not great, but then there’s a reason why the railway is less reliable than normal at present. And even if it is boringly reliable (like Thameslink has been on the MML side until the summer holidays) then I would still check. Yes there weren’t apps in the past, and it is a great help to now have them - it has certainly made my life better.

I did last week, with a few apps. Most of them showing WGC - Moorgate services on time. How I thought to myself when the inbound is cancelled. Check the track maps. Not much going north.

arrive at the station. Staff say all trains to Moorgate cancelled. App says they are on time.

the conflict did seem odd but did wonder if the train was in the carriage sidings.

The past few weeks are bad. Did we have bad weeks pre 2018? yes. you just forget about them. people were saying recently they can’t remember the last time the main line was closed for so many subsequent days. I remember Potters Bar and Hatfield. hopefully things will improve in September.

 

[grumblingalong]

9JXX service group commuter here, Thameslink really do blow hot and cold on the north of London section. I've gone months earlier in the year without so much as a 20 minute delay. Just recently though (since the bad feeling and strikes started up) crewing has obviously become an even more acute issue.

Saturdays are an absolute nightmare for those of us that work weekends, reduced services, poor connections at hitchin and that's if a train runs at all.

My main frustration with TL is the communication when it all goes wrong, it often doesn't exist at all. I only got home last night because I'm well enough experienced to get as far as you can then find the staff for a taxi, which they arranged promptly.

When it works it works well, when it doesn't, it really doesn't.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Yes I’ve been noticing some other services from déifièrent
Origins seem to be running adequately of course with a few delays and cancellations but where I live in Redhill pretty much all thameslink trains all day are cancelled and only a few manage to leave.

Im on the Redhill line been a good service today only a couple missing so far although i see the last 9Rxx is a non runner but there is still a 9Jxx after it

 

[WizCastro197]

Im on the Redhill line been a good service today only a couple missing so far although i see the last 9Rxx is a non runner but there is still a 9Jxx after it

Depends what station to be fair
The stopping pattern varies
Some won’t stop at Merstham but stop at Redhill
Some won’t stop at Couldson
But stop at Redhill
Some won’t stop at Purley
But stop at all other 3

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

9JXX service group commuter here, Thameslink really do blow hot and cold on the north of London section. I've gone months earlier in the year without so much as a 20 minute delay. Just recently though (since the bad feeling and strikes started up) crewing has obviously become an even more acute issue.

Saturdays are an absolute nightmare for those of us that work weekends, reduced services, poor connections at hitchin and that's if a train runs at all.

My main frustration with TL is the communication when it all goes wrong, it often doesn't exist at all. I only got home last night because I'm well enough experienced to get as far as you can then find the staff for a taxi, which they arranged promptly.

When it works it works well, when it doesn't, it really doesn't.

Totally agree the railway is as bad if not worse than it was in BR days when the service is perturbed and this was in the age of dial phones if you were lucky the station mgr office had a teleprinter. Even then my station had long line PA so they could update the unstaffed stations. Now you get CIS that gives you false hope that your train is coming or its completely bereft of information. You can use the help line but invariably the person on the other end has no better info than you do. The industry really needs to rethink how it deals with comms in perturbed situations and accept that digital solutions aren't the answer and real people need to be involved.

 

[WizCastro197]

What I saw about 10-15 mins ago from redhill?

It’s quite bad
Like that all day
But much more cancellations

 

[bramling]

Totally agree the railway is as bad if not worse than it was in BR days when the service is perturbed and this was in the age of dial phones if you were lucky the station mgr office had a teleprinter. Even then my station had long line PA so they could update the unstaffed stations. Now you get CIS that gives you false hope that your train is coming or its completely bereft of information. You can use the help line but invariably the person on the other end has no better info than you do. The industry really needs to rethink how it deals with comms in perturbed situations and accept that digital solutions aren't the answer and real people need to be involved.

The answer to this is local staff that actually have some understanding of operations, so precisely the opposite way to the direction the industry has been heading. It is rather embarrassing that a spotter with OTT or RTTT often has more idea what’s going on than local station staff.

I did last week, with a few apps. Most of them showing WGC - Moorgate services on time. How I thought to myself when the inbound is cancelled. Check the track maps. Not much going north.

arrive at the station. Staff say all trains to Moorgate cancelled. App says they are on time.

the conflict did seem odd but did wonder if the train was in the carriage sidings.

The past few weeks are bad. Did we have bad weeks pre 2018? yes. you just forget about them. people were saying recently they can’t remember the last time the main line was closed for so many subsequent days. I remember Potters Bar and Hatfield. hopefully things will improve in September.

It’s certainly the worst things have been since Hatfield and Potters Bar. WAGN under National Express did a hell of a lot of work to get the fundamentals right, and FCC did appear to keep this up (even if cracks were developing below the surface). Since then TLP was bulldozed in like a bull in a china shop, and predictably here we are now with a service which simply can’t be relied upon.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s one thing doing it (and to be fair, I’m not averse to checking an app), but it shouldn’t be the *expectation* that one has to do it. The *expectation* should be that the train is going to run, right time. Indeed I got caught out a couple of weekends ago when I forgot to check before setting out, and found three trains on the bounce cancelled.

Perhaps I’m just old-fashioned, however it’s worth remembering that not so long ago there weren’t apps, and indeed there weren’t smart phones either. The only way to check the status of the train service was to fire up a computer and see what information operators were putting out, or indeed stuff like teletext! Certainly in (latter) WAGN days and right through the FCC tenure (give or take the odd weekend “off day”), the trains were sufficiently dependable that one could just turn up.

It really isn’t a great advert for the industry to be saying “you need to check beforehand as it’s highly likely there will be a problem”, which is in effect what you’re saying. If this is supposed to be an improvement on what we had before, then it simply isn’t!

I should also add that if someone is finishing work at a set time, checking an app all the times in the world isn’t going to help them get home any earlier if their particular desired train is cancelled.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to check a journey. Just like you check the traffic, or the weather report. On the whole, things will generally be fine (unless there is a known and prolonged problem à la Avanti) and all these things are changeable and subject to a whole range of different factors.

Also I think you’ll find for many years commuters have “checked apps”. And regardless of whether they did or not as you say, the train will be cancelled and I’d rather be forewarned so I can replan, wouldn’t you? Delays are nothing new to the railway, however much we might kid ourselves that things were better in the past. This is not to say things are obviously all perfect either.

 

[bramling]

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to check a journey. Just like you check the traffic, or the weather report. On the whole, things will generally be fine (unless there is a known and prolonged problem à la Avanti) and all these things are changeable and subject to a whole range of different factors.

Also I think you’ll find for many years commuters have “checked apps”. And regardless of whether they did or not as you say, the train will be cancelled and I’d rather be forewarned so I can replan, wouldn’t you? Delays are nothing new to the railway, however much we might kid ourselves that things were better in the past.

I think most people would prefer for the train to be running reliably in the first place.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with checking an app (though it’s worth remembering that most of these apps, in particular RTTT, *aren’t* provided by the industry), just that it shouldn’t need to be an intrinsic part of using the train, especially on weekdays when there’s no expectation of engineering work.

As I alluded to elsewhere for over a decade it was fully possible to use GN without any realistic need at all to check before leaving home, the fact that we’re now in a position where it is (and have been so since May 18 to varying degrees at different times) represents an unfortunate downgrade in my view, and certainly not something the industry should be attempting to defend.

 

[infobleep]

The 4 Coaches do fine until East Croydon/Purley (off peak) from where most of the passengers alight (ECR) . These 4 coaches then become 8 or 12 from the other service that conjoins at Redhill where the chance of getting a seat is highly likely (with the gained carriages) to ECR either from the Reigate Section or the Gatwick airport part. Sure the Thameslinks absence is irritating but able bodied people can stand for 20 minutes to ECR and change. Its one island platform over its not like you are walking from one end of Clapham to the other.


What Time was it? They occasionally put Southern Brighton bound into Redhill (Sundays Only) but very rarely Thameslink, let alone on Saturdays. Perhaps short notice maintenance on the quarry line?

Anyway It was probably needed. Redhill destinations southbound are really poor. Apart from Maybe Gatwick airport where one can change onto a Brighton service but it's only Thameslink and with the absence of the 2tph from Victoria, these trains stop everywhere and are often seatless by the time it arrives at Gatwick where then more people get on rather than off. I don't think Redhill has gotten a frequent Brighton service since the 2018 timetable change. I am sure Minstral25 lives close to Redhill basing off their amazing knowledge of the surrounding stations and services so maybe they can help me if I'm wrong!

It was the 18:12 Brighton to Cambridge service on Saturday 30 July 2022 and the train was stopping additionally at Redhill. Not passing through but stopping. Very unusual.

 

[baz962]

I 100% disagree. If one has a set arrival time, then for me it is even more important that I check how things are running before departing. If my preferred train is late or cancelled, I get going earlier. It’s not just for trains either; when using the roads I always check the traffic well before I leave.

Perhaps I’m weird in this respect. But I’d rather be weird and make best use of my time than ‘normal’ and get cross about cancelled trains / traffic jams that could be avoided.




same.

I think the point though is that only helps so much. I want the 03.15 from Bedford some mornings. The other day and I forget which, the 03.15 was showing cancelled and the 03.43 was showing as running and I went for that. While I was in bed asleep, that duly got cancelled. The 04.13 made me late for work and all the checking in the world didn't help.

 

[infobleep]

same.

Rightly or wrongly I tend to just to the National Rail Enquiries app these days when checking in advance as it's the official source of information.

I use Real Time Trains if I want more location points with times or if I wish to check if a train is standard class only. During disruption, I might use it too.

 

[bramling]

I think the point though is that only helps so much. I want the 03.15 from Bedford some mornings. The other day and I forget which, the 03.15 was showing cancelled and the 03.43 was showing as running and I went for that. While I was in bed asleep, that duly got cancelled. The 04.13 made me late for work and all the checking in the world didn't help.

Indeed. The other morning, any app would have shown cancelled, cancelled and cancelled. The previous train would have meant getting up 45 minutes earlier, and I’m not going to be doing that just on the off-chance a train is cancelled.

So had I checked an app, my choices would have been to have an extra 50 mins at home (I’m sure the other half and neighbours would have appreciated me clattering around in the dawn hours on a Saturday!), or - and what would in hindsight have been the preferable option - forget the useless train service and take the car.

App or otherwise, only the car would have got me where I needed to be at the required time. Thameslink fails, *again*.

 

[Silver Cobra]

It’s two days in a row now that the 0548 from Kings Cross to Peterborough (1P04) and the return working, the 0724 from Peterborough to Horsham (9J13) have been cancelled (though today 9J13 will run from Finsbury Park where yesterday it was cancelled throughout). Rather frustrating for me as, for both yesterday and today, I was planning to use 9J13 to get into London. Much like yesterday I bet this will lead to the following service, 9J15, being very heavily loaded.

 

[WizCastro197]

It was the 18:12 Brighton to Cambridge service on Saturday 30 July 2022 and the train was stopping additionally at Redhill. Not passing through but stopping. Very unusual.

Yes that’s awfully strange
Do you recall any major event happening around Brighton?
Some extremely late night services stop at Redhill from Brighton on regular weekdays like one I saw yesterday and have seen for a few days

Perhaps it was to provide extra service because so many trains had been cancelled around it. I know avanti does the same this with Lockerbie when lots have been cancelled?

 

[Edsmith]

There's a lot of dissatisfaction in the Medway Towns about regular cancellations on the Thameslink Rainham service and calls for Southeastern, who themselves aren't immune from criticism, to take over the service east of Dartford.

 

[bramling]

It’s two days in a row now that the 0548 from Kings Cross to Peterborough (1P04) and the return working, the 0724 from Peterborough to Horsham (9J13) have been cancelled (though today 9J13 will run from Finsbury Park where yesterday it was cancelled throughout). Rather frustrating for me as, for both yesterday and today, I was planning to use 9J13 to get into London. Much like yesterday I bet this will lead to the following service, 9J15, being very heavily loaded.

9J01, the first proper up service, was cancelled this morning, and seems to be quite a regular cancellation at the moment. Given this is very well used by railway staff, LNER in particular, one wonders what wider impact this might be having.

 

[XAM2175]

Rightly or wrongly I tend to just to the National Rail Enquiries app these days when checking in advance as it's the official source of information.

I use Real Time Trains if I want more location points with times or if I wish to check if a train is standard class only. During disruption, I might use it too.

There is a certain advantage to using NRE in times of disruption - it will generally show last-minute changes that (for various reasons) don't make it to RTT. For example, last Saturday where NRE had been updated to show that GN's trains to Ely were making additional calls at Finsbury Park and Stevenage but the actual schedules as used by RTT hadn't been.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I remember the Southern London Bridge - Horsham train being a lot more reliable than Thameslink. The journey was more comfortable too.

Yup, the 4VEPs were far more comfortable by comparison...

 

[Minstral25]

I find the best way to avoid a cancellation is to look up real time trains in advance and be prepared to be flexible with your journey if necessary.

When the timetable is supposed to be turn up and go, which it is along Redhill stations, then you tend not to check first. I do get that is a risk but most passengers are used to a train every 10-20 minutes often are not targeting a specific train.

 

[WizCastro197]

Yes that’s awfully strange

Do you recall any major event happening around Brighton?
Some extremely late night services stop at Redhill from Brighton on regular weekdays like one I saw yesterday and have seen for a few days

Perhaps it was to provide extra service because so many trains had been cancelled around it. I know avanti does the same this with Lockerbie when lots have been cancelled?

Alright I remember now
30th July was strike day? Was it not?
Probably to make sure Redhill had some connections to London as Reigate-Vic was suspended

 

[Minstral25]

Yes that’s awfully strange

Alright I remember now
30th July was strike day? Was it not?
Probably to make sure Redhill had some connections to London as Reigate-Vic was suspended

Strike didn't affect GTR on 30th July - major disruption on that day and was service was diverted through Redhill to create some service. All 9J Peterborough to Horsham services had been cancelled at last minute for whole day and there was significant disruption on 9R's as well which withdrew most Thameslink services for a long periods that day (Southern Reigate to Victoria were not disrupted but some cycles didn't run due to planning/crew issues)

 

[WizCastro197]

Strike didn't affect GTR on 30th July - major disruption on that day and was service was diverted through Redhill to create some service. All 9J Peterborough to Horsham services had been cancelled at last minute for whole day and there was significant disruption on 9R's as well which withdrew most Thameslink services for a long periods that day (Southern Reigate to Victoria were not disrupted but some cycles didn't run due to planning/crew issues)

Ah okay sorry! I did travel the day after on the 31st and I recall telling myself today won’t be disrupted at all because swr and southern weren’t affected.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

Depends what station to be fair
The stopping pattern varies
Some won’t stop at Merstham but stop at Redhill
Some won’t stop at Couldson
But stop at Redhill
Some won’t stop at Purley
But stop at all other 3

At Redhill a couple of weeks ago there was an announcement that the train I was boarding would be making additional stops at Merstham and Coulsdon South but evidently nobody told the driver because it ran non stop to Purley!

 

[londonteacher]

There's a lot of dissatisfaction in the Medway Towns about regular cancellations on the Thameslink Rainham service and calls for Southeastern, who themselves aren't immune from criticism, to take over the service east of Dartford.

Is there? Where are the calls for SE to take over? I’d like to have my say as a regular user of the line!