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What do you think about ‘pings’ because of the Track and Trace App?

Nicholas Lewis

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It’s just something else we will all learn to live with for now. After the last 16 months or so I’m sure we’ll get through this stage of the pandemic.
This will do more to wreck our daily lives than lockdown ever did.
 
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_toommm_

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Just been announced that companies can apply to the government to exempt their workers from isolating, if they’re double jabbed. Relating to this forum:

It said an exception may be suitable in critical roles such as railway signalling, but was less likely to be suitable for individual train drivers.

 

Nicholas Lewis

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Just been announced that companies can apply to the government to exempt their workers from isolating, if they’re double jabbed. Relating to this forum:



Well a train driver working on there own should easily fulfil the requirements to be exempted but will the operators bother to request it?
 

bramling

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Just been announced that companies can apply to the government to exempt their workers from isolating, if they’re double jabbed. Relating to this forum:




So it’s okay for signallers working in a communal environment to be exempted, but a driver who spends most of their working time alone isn’t suitable?

The whole thing is a complete cluster....
 

Nicholas Lewis

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So it’s okay for signallers working in a communal environment to be exempted, but a driver who spends most of their working time alone isn’t suitable?

The whole thing is a complete cluster....
Totally but the industry needs to get a grip but not sure operators are bothered anymore they are just playing along with whatever govt wants now. If their bottom line was exposed they would behave differently.
 

Watershed

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So it’s okay for signallers working in a communal environment to be exempted, but a driver who spends most of their working time alone isn’t suitable?

The whole thing is a complete cluster....
I think the logic behind it is that the network will generally grind to a halt if you don't have signallers, whereas it will 'just' be individual trains that end up being cancelled if there aren't enough drivers.

Of course, as you say, the risk profile would favour the exact opposite approach!

Either way, it will be crucial for TOCs and Network Rail to apply for exemptions and introduce them ASAP.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I think the logic behind it is that the network will generally grind to a halt if you don't have signallers, whereas it will 'just' be individual trains that end up being cancelled if there aren't enough drivers.

Of course, as you say, the risk profile would favour the exact opposite approach!

Either way, it will be crucial for TOCs and Network Rail to apply for exemptions and introduce them ASAP.
OK i get that about signallers but more trains that are running means less density of passengers gathered together means less likely people clustered together causing a ping.
 

bramling

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Totally but the industry needs to get a grip but not sure operators are bothered anymore they are just playing along with whatever govt wants now. If their bottom line was exposed they would behave differently.

To be fair I don't think we can blame rail operators for the pinging shambles, and they're not the only industry being hammered by it.

One can't help but be cynical about it though - how many people when their phone goes ping jump for joy at the prospect of 10 days off work, but without actually having to bother isolating?
 

Jimini

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To be fair I don't think we can blame rail operators for the pinging shambles, and they're not the only industry being hammered by it.

One can't help but be cynical about it though - how many people when their phone goes ping jump for joy at the prospect of 10 days off work, but without actually having to bother isolating?
Those not on SSP at a guess!
 

infobleep

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Why is the country tying itself in knots over something that is not a legal requirement ? Even the legally binding rules after a contact from NHS Track & Trace are due to be relaxed in less than a month. Would it really make much difference if people started applying those relaxed rules to 'pings' now ?
Are the people pinged by the app getting tested? Or are they just enjoying the time off at home, assuming they don't have any symptoms?
 
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DelayRepay

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Are the people pinged by the so getting tested? Or are they just enjoying the time off at home, assuming they don't have any symptoms?

The Government say you only need a test if you develop symptoms


And even if you have a test and it's negative, you are still supposed to isolate. So if they are doing what you say, they are 100% following the 'rules'.

I think if they all tried to get PCR tests we'd be back where we were last year, where there wasn't enough testing capacity.
 

yorksrob

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The Government say you only need a test if you develop symptoms


And even if you have a test and it's negative, you are still supposed to isolate. So if they are doing what you say, they are 100% following the 'rules'.

I think if they all tried to get PCR tests we'd be back where we were last year, where there wasn't enough testing capacity.

It's a complete shambles.

The sensible way should be "if you're pinged get tested and we'll see if you need to isolate".
 

DelayRepay

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It's a complete shambles.

The sensible way should be "if you're pinged get tested and we'll see if you need to isolate".
I agree except I would probably not test everyone - we won't have capacity.

Perhaps 'if you are pinged then avoid crowded places and close contact with others, and get tested if you develop symptoms'.
 

yorksrob

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I agree except I would probably not test everyone - we won't have capacity.

Perhaps 'if you are pinged then avoid crowded places and close contact with others, and get tested if you develop symptoms'.

Yes, that might be more sensible.
 

Bantamzen

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I agree except I would probably not test everyone - we won't have capacity.

Perhaps 'if you are pinged then avoid crowded places and close contact with others, and get tested if you develop symptoms'.
I agree as well. I've said it elsewhere so I may as well say it here, we need to get ourselves out of the test-test-test regime. Not only it is risking becoming the "new normal", but the tests won't be paid for by the government forever. Sooner or later people will be expected to pay for all their tests, and if they are needed for certain events or even daily functioning it will create yet another divide between those that can afford it & those who cannot.
 

35B

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This time last year the press were criticising T&T saying it was useless, it didn’t work and £37b had been wasted. Fast forward 12 months, it appears to be working and pinging more people as infections soar. The press are now criticising it because it seems to be working, funny times we are living through.
And the difference is the risk that's associated with the disease. I wouldn't mind the risk of being pinged if there were a test regime; it's the expectation of isolation that I take issue with.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of those getting pinged by the app actually turned out to have caught coronavirus as a result of that contact, a high percentage would show the app is working well, otherwise it’s just creating disruption.

I can appreciate the frustration of those getting pinged, particularly if you are double-vaccinated and/or regularly testing yourself anyway. I imagine it’s really annoying if you’ve been on holiday, paid hundreds of pounds for the collection of various tests you need and then get contact traced from a case on the plane!
The epidemiolgical logic is not that it's the percentage of pings that test positive that matters, but the impact of those isolations on the spread of disease.
 

bramling

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And the difference is the risk that's associated with the disease. I wouldn't mind the risk of being pinged if there were a test regime; it's the expectation of isolation that I take issue with.


The epidemiolgical logic is not that it's the percentage of pings that test positive that matters, but the impact of those isolations on the spread of disease.

I’m not sure it’s clear cut to say it’s working. We were pinged yesterday for being in a venue where there was a positive case, with it advising isolation. I thought isolation was only for close proximity cases? The only venue I can put this down to is a Wetherspoon, where we sat outside and were pretty well distanced from others. Seems a bit excessive to me.

We haven’t really bothered with the app - only have it to make entry into places easier.
 

35B

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I’m not sure it’s clear cut to say it’s working. We were pinged yesterday for being in a venue where there was a positive case, with it advising isolation. I thought isolation was only for close proximity cases? The only venue I can put this down to is a Wetherspoon, where we sat outside and were pretty well distanced from others. Seems a bit excessive to me.

We haven’t really bothered with the app - only have it to make entry into places easier.
Pings can be for either bluetooth proximity or an alert at the same location - and yes, I agree, the regime does feel disproportionate.
 

island

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Pings can be for either bluetooth proximity or an alert at the same location - and yes, I agree, the regime does feel disproportionate.

Does the app say which applies to a specific alert ?
An alert (I refuse to call them “pings” as it is a silly word) for Bluetooth proximity to someone who subsequently tested positive will advise the recipient to self-isolate.

An alert based on venue check-ins will advise the recipient to take a lateral flow test.

A similar process applies to NHS Test & Trace contacts, save that in the case of close contacts, the instruction to self-isolate is legally binding.
 

DelayRepay

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An alert based on venue check-ins will advise the recipient to take a lateral flow test.
I am sure I read somewhere that local public health teams could issue isolation alerts to people who'd been in specific venues, by exception e.g. if there were several cases linked to the same location on the same day. But the government website does not say this so maybe I imagined it or made it up.

I agree as well. I've said it elsewhere so I may as well say it here, we need to get ourselves out of the test-test-test regime. Not only it is risking becoming the "new normal", but the tests won't be paid for by the government forever. Sooner or later people will be expected to pay for all their tests, and if they are needed for certain events or even daily functioning it will create yet another divide between those that can afford it & those who cannot.
You are correct and there is a precedent for paying for tests under the international travel rules. And those tests are not cheap.

Mandatory testing is unworkable. Even if LFTs are used, they need to be supervised to be effective, which would be very costly and logistically challenging. Home based LFTs are pointless as a mandatory requirement as people could just submit a negative result without even doing the test.

There are certain circumstances where taking a test would be sensible, but they shouldn't be a blanket mandatory requirement.
 

Ediswan

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An alert (I refuse to call them “pings” as it is a silly word) for Bluetooth proximity to someone who subsequently tested positive will advise the recipient to self-isolate.

An alert based on venue check-ins will advise the recipient to take a lateral flow test.
Thanks.
 

island

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I am sure I read somewhere that local public health teams could issue isolation alerts to people who'd been in specific venues, by exception e.g. if there were several cases linked to the same location on the same day. But the government website does not say this so maybe I imagined it or made it up.
I would not rule out the possibility of local public health teams making local decisions and not following the national framework, nor the possibility that the said framework has changed between you reading it and today :smile:
 

Crossover

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I'm pinged currently and the only pub or restaurant I've been in in since the start of covid was an empty one in May. Where it happened is a mystery to me.

I thought I'd been "got" on a train, but looking through the app again it turns out that my encounter happened the day before. That day all I'd done was left the hotel, walked to a training school, walked to a supermarket for lunch, and then walked back to the hotel in the afternoon. There was a thunderstorm so I stayed in and ate the snacks I'd brought the night before instead of going outside.

Other than when I was in my room, alone, I was with the same four other people who probably also have the app. Three definitely have not been pinged, no idea on the fourth.

One side of my hotel room was a service stairwell. Below and above may have had people in, but they must have been very quiet as I didn't hear them.

There’s every possibility that you’ve been picked up through a wall or something, to be honest

This time last year the press were criticising T&T saying it was useless, it didn’t work and £37b had been wasted. Fast forward 12 months, it appears to be working and pinging more people as infections soar. The press are now criticising it because it seems to be working, funny times we are living through.

But it isn’t working. The app has no idea if there have been mitigating circumstances which means transmission if the illness is lower or impossible. Shared party walls etc being a main one, but also things like screens between tables/booths in restaurants, being out in open air, two phones stuck in lockers where the phone owners never see each other
 

Bantamzen

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But it isn’t working. The app has no idea if there have been mitigating circumstances which means transmission if the illness is lower or impossible. Shared party walls etc being a main one, but also things like screens between tables/booths in restaurants, being out in open air, two phones stuck in lockers where the phone owners never see each other
This is a very good point. You could easily be sat in a pub or restaurant within 2 metres of someone who will test positive, but have a screen or wall between you the whole time. Hell the same could be said for people's gardens!
 

ainsworth74

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This is a very good point. You could easily be sat in a pub or restaurant within 2 metres of someone who will test positive, but have a screen or wall between you the whole time. Hell the same could be said for people's gardens!
Or the next door neighbour in the flat above or the terrace next to you! Though why on earth anyone would have it turned on at home is beyond me...
 

Bikeman78

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I’m not sure it’s clear cut to say it’s working. We were pinged yesterday for being in a venue where there was a positive case, with it advising isolation. I thought isolation was only for close proximity cases? The only venue I can put this down to is a Wetherspoon, where we sat outside and were pretty well distanced from others. Seems a bit excessive to me.

We haven’t really bothered with the app - only have it to make entry into places easier.
The only time I've checked in was at breakfast at a Premier Inn. Later I looked at the app and it listed the check in with the times 0730-2300. Was I supposed to check out again? If someone else checked in at 1800 for dinner and then had Covid, would I get an alert even though I left 10 hours earlier? Anyway, the next day I left my phone in my room.
 

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