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What is the Covid-19 Exit Strategy of 'Zero Covid' countries such as Hong Kong?

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MikeWM

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I believe the cancellation of the visa was stated to be on the grounds that his presence in the country was contrary to Australia's interests in that it would tend to encourage people not to get vaccinated.

I think there were two reasons given : one on public health grounds, and the other as you suggest.

Both of which are clearly nonsense. It is the behaviour of the Australian authorities - first in granting him a visa, then cancelling it despite him having followed all the rules they set, and now this seemingly-arbitrary exercise of executive power, that have drawn his case to such massive attention. It looks petty and ridiculous, and making him a 'martyr' like this doesn't seem at all likely to help their case.

I find it very uncomfortable that a minister should have the power to make arbitrary decisions like this, independent of what the rest of the law actually says. There's a lot of similar things been written into our laws recently, and they make me uncomfortable too.
 
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takno

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But...

The rules are clear - you have to vaccinated to get in to Australia. He isn't. That's his choice and he has to live with the consequences. It's not about whether those rules are right or wrong, or if we like them or not.

There are also a number of issues with Djokovic's evidence:
- According to Der Spiegel the positive test result initially came back with a negative result, but subsequently changed when the QR code was re-scanned.
- There is significant doubt over the dates on the tests.
- Once you have a positive test, you know the rules: isolate. Why then did he do a face-to-face interview with a journalist, do a PR opportunity with children etc etc as he "didn't want to disappoint them"?
- His team accidently forgot to include his Spain visit on the visa form. Elite sports people don't leave stuff like that to chance.

It has to be said that it was very convenient that Djokovic tested positive when he did, just nicely timed for the Australian Open. It's highly convenient the test was in Serbia...

Putting it together it rather gives the impression he was trying to cheat the system and because he's world #1 thinks he should be able to get in regardless of the rules in place. Ask yourself this: if any of us turned up with the same paperwork and story, would we get in? Of course not, so neither should Djokovic.

Well done to the Aussies for (eventually) making the correct decision.
The actual justification for the visa being revoked was nothing to do with whether he was vaccinated or not, and was blatantly opportunistic and difficult to support. I suspect that the full judgement when it comes is likely to be pretty withering and reflect quite badly on the government.

Meanwhile their ability to hold elite sporting events or indeed any other type of international event will be hit. These laws are on the books to stop dangerous terrorists and bad political actors, not sportspeople. If your leading competitor/attendee/speaker can be arbitrarily kicked out of the country on the basis of a shaky, vindictive and politically-motivated action by a politician, then why would you risk it?
 

35B

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But...

The rules are clear - you have to vaccinated to get in to Australia. He isn't. That's his choice and he has to live with the consequences. It's not about whether those rules are right or wrong, or if we like them or not.

There are also a number of issues with Djokovic's evidence:
- According to Der Spiegel the positive test result initially came back with a negative result, but subsequently changed when the QR code was re-scanned.
- There is significant doubt over the dates on the tests.
- Once you have a positive test, you know the rules: isolate. Why then did he do a face-to-face interview with a journalist, do a PR opportunity with children etc etc as he "didn't want to disappoint them"?
- His team accidently forgot to include his Spain visit on the visa form. Elite sports people don't leave stuff like that to chance.

It has to be said that it was very convenient that Djokovic tested positive when he did, just nicely timed for the Australian Open. It's highly convenient the test was in Serbia...

Putting it together it rather gives the impression he was trying to cheat the system and because he's world #1 thinks he should be able to get in regardless of the rules in place. Ask yourself this: if any of us turned up with the same paperwork and story, would we get in? Of course not, so neither should Djokovic.

Well done to the Aussies for (eventually) making the correct decision.
If the Australian border official had followed some semblance of due process when he arrived in Melbourne, we might not have had this vindictive second bite of the cherry by the Australian government. You have also not mentioned the suggestion that the visa applications had to be submitted by the 10th of December, meaning that Djokovic would have had to be a fortune teller to have realised that he'd have Covid when tested on the 16th. Putting this all together, my sympathy for Djokovic is absolutely nil, reduced if possible by the circus of knaves and clowns he's got supporting him.
But the rules don't make sense and the tennis association informed him he didn't have to be vaccinated if he had been infected; he followed the rules he was told to follow, in respect of vaccination status (notwithstanding any other issues or discrepancies which may have subsequently come to light).
With respect, the tennis association are not the government. There's a lot to be said for the ancient Greek concept of an olympic truce, but in the absence of that, the Australian government have the right to determine who they allow in, not a sporting body.
 

nw1

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Always remember that things could be worse. You could be the one sitting next to Novak on the plane.

Given that he's probably very, very low risk as a result of his recent infection, I think I'd prefer to sit next to him than someone random! ;)
 

brad465

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Australia has now overtaken the UK in most daily cases in the last 7 days, which I'm certain is a first for the pandemic so far:


1642415014590.png
 

WelshBluebird

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- His team accidently forgot to include his Spain visit on the visa form. Elite sports people don't leave stuff like that to chance.
I think this is the biggest thing for me. The application form for the visa literally asks about other foreign travel. If he or his team (being honest, maybe this is just me but I am not convinced you should be trusting your "team" to fill out a visa application that has personal and legal repercussions on you and not your team, it should be something you do yourself) made a false statement on the visa application form, then that itself is grounds for him to be deported - being vaccinated or not doesn't even come into it!

Note - I don't like strict border controls. However, the idea that lying on a visa application could get you deported isn't a new one and it has literally nothing to do with COVID, especially with a country like Australia that does have strict controls. If I lied on an application and got caught on it, I wouldn't then do puppy dog eyes and complain about how unfair it is!
 
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Freightmaster

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Australia has now overtaken the UK in most daily cases in the last 7 days, which I'm certain is a first for the pandemic so far:


View attachment 108896

...and if you adjust for its lower population, Australia's case numbers would be the equivalent of the UK having almost 2 million cases
over the past seven days rather than the 745,898 listed above! o_O







MARK
 

nw1

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Australia has now overtaken the UK in most daily cases in the last 7 days, which I'm certain is a first for the pandemic so far:
The correct column to look at of course is the 'cases per population' one, which really this table should be ordered by. For example it makes out both the USA and India to be really bad, but this is only because these are countries of huge populations. But if so, your point is even more true.
 

MikeWM

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I think this is the biggest thing for me. The application form for the visa literally asks about other foreign travel. If he or his team (being honest, maybe this is just me but I am not convinced you should be trusting your "team" to fill out a visa application that has personal and legal repercussions on you and not your team, it should be something you do yourself) made a false statement on the visa application form, then that itself is grounds for him to be deported - being vaccinated or not doesn't even come into it!

I agree, and he did himself no favours by not doing this correctly.

But it is worth pointing out that this was not one of the declared grounds for which his visa was cancelled - either time.
 

Freightmaster

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The correct column to look at of course is the 'cases per population' one, which really this table should be ordered by.
The problem is that if you do that, the table is dominated by tiny, mainly Caribbean nations.


For example it makes out both the USA and India to be really bad, but this is only because these are countries of huge populations. But if so, your point is even more true.
Here is the list, ordered as you suggested, starting from the first 'major' county (France):

1642426762726.png

In other words, Australia is currently the second worst country in the world for cases, after France.


(the UK is way down at #58 in case anyone was wondering!)






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yorkie

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00:07 ...i want to start a with a
00:09 bit of a question really and you know as
00:11 much about this as i do, why is china
00:13 persisting with this zero covered policy
00:16 which can't possibly work in the age of
00:18 omicron...

Ros Atkins On... China's zero-Covid dilemma​


Ros Atkins On... China's zero-Covid dilemma

Ros Atkins looks at why China is still eliminating all Covid outbreaks, while many other parts of the world are learning to live with the virus.
Given the threat China poses to the rest of the world, I hope China continues with Zero Covid for a very long time, as this policy will be harmful for the Communist Party of China and damage their reputation.

I think they will continue to pursue Zero Covid for a while yet, as their vaccines are inferior, and the Communist Party won't want to admit that they need to change tactic. Authoritarianism is rife in China and the Government can get away with such tactics as the population puts up with it.

But at some point they are going to have to give it up. It will be very damaging for the Communist Party to admit they failed, so it could be a very long time before this happens.
 

LOL The Irony

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Given the threat China poses to the rest of the world, I hope China continues with Zero Covid for a very long time, as this policy will be harmful for the Communist Party of China and damage their reputation.
They're already screwing themselves over with Evergreen and their HSR debts. This is just another thing to add to the list. On top of that, their return to isolationist policies are sure to drive foreign companies away. China are one bad day away from bankruptcy.
 

brad465

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The Pacific Island of Kiribati has just gone into lockdown after community transmission resulted from a number of positively-tested passengers on a flight there, despite everyone on the plane being "fully" vaccinated:


The remote island nation of Kiribati has gone into lockdown after passengers on the first international flight in 10 months tested positive for Covid.
Under the new measures, people have been told to stay at home and social gatherings are banned.
Some 36 people on the flight from Fiji have tested positive. Four people have caught the virus from community transmission.
Until last week, Kiribati had recorded just two Covid cases.
Kiribati is one of the most isolated islands in the world. It is some 5,000km (3,100 miles) from its nearest continent, North America.
On Tuesday, the government confirmed that 36 of the 54 passengers had tested positive. It said in a post on Facebook that all passengers are currently being monitored by health officials..
All of the passengers on the flight are fully vaccinated, the government said.
However three members of the quarantine facility's security team have since tested positive. Another person who does not work at the facility has also contracted the virus, the government said.
The lockdown came into force on Saturday but it is not clear how long it will last.
People are not allowed to leave their homes unless for essential services. They can buy essential items from shops but only between 06:00 and 14:00.
"The only way that we can fight this virus is through complete vaccination," the office of President Taneti Maamau said on Facebook. "The public is urged to complete their vaccination doses in order to protect themselves and families."
It is not known what proportion of the 120,000 people in the country have been fully vaccinated.

This would be a good example to use proving how vaccine passports and arguments for unvaccinated being treated differently in a negative way achieve nothing.
 

greyman42

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I caught the back end of a news report that a small country/island had a zero Covid policy and had sealed its borders during the pandemic and "eliminated" the disease. It has now opened up and immediately Covid is rife.
Does anyone know where this is?
The above post has answered my question.
 

kristiang85

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It's the same as the Antarctic outbreak a month or so ago. Fully vaccinated and quarantined, yet it still managed to get through.
 

Freightmaster

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It's the same as the Antarctic outbreak a month or so ago. Fully vaccinated and quarantined, yet it still managed to get through.
Shock, horror: respiratory viruses like Covid19 are highly contagious and vaccines and masks
are only able to make a marginal difference to transmission rates...






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21C101

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Queenslands er solution is opening a Wellcamp Quarantine Camp shortly.

Their Premier [first minister] is proudly introducing the Camp Commissioner with a photo of her in her natty black uniform with armband of a red ring with a black Iron Cross in a white circle and what looks like red lightning flashes on the lapel.

You do wonder who on earth they get to check these media releases and their level of general knowledge.


 
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Mojo

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Meanwhile on planet Jacinda, household contacts of positive cases in NZ will have to self-isolate at home for 24 days.

From a NZ news channel: https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/01/22/...ontacts-of-positive-case-isolate-for-24-days/

New rules, introduced on Friday, mean positive cases must isolate for at least 14 days, including 72 hours symptom-free.

However, household members need to be in isolation for an additional 10 days after the positive case has been cleared.

That means household contacts will have to isolate for at least 24 days or three and a half weeks, which is longer than the actual case themselves.

ACT Party leader David Seymour said the new rules would be impractical.

“These rules mean that if you get a positive test, then your household can be out for a month. People who can't afford that just won't get tested, defeating the purpose.

“If people do follow these isolation rules, then we're going to have serious problems with healthcare capacity and supply chains.”
 

Merseysider

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Queenslands er solution is opening a Wellcamp Quarantine Camp shortly.

Their Premier [first minister] is proudly introducing the Camp Commissioner with a photo of her in her natty black uniform with armband of a red ring with a black Iron Cross in a white circle and what looks like red lightning flashes on the lapel.

You do wonder who on earth they get to check these media releases and their level of general knowledge.




*Maltese* Cross, and an official symbol of the State since they first established such symbols. Queensland is Australia's 'special' place, and at times our national embarrassment, but I don't think the use of the Maltese Cross emblem is one of them.


 

Bantamzen

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I'd live anywhere in Oz or EnZed before I'd want to live anywhere in the UK - There's nowhere here with a PM or Premier as whacko as your man and his crew, not even close.
Are you sure? Both Australia and NZ have been playing King Canute with the virus, obsessing over zero-covid measures even when zero-covid measures aren't working. And now in Queensland they are setting up concentration, erm health camps run by people sporting outfits that would not have gone amiss in 1930s Germany, and across the blue NZ are proposing that people who live with someone who tests positive to isolate for almost a month! Yeah, seems sane to me!! o_O

BoJo is as useless as a bag of dead badgers, but he isn't as criminally insane as the leaders down under....
 

DustyBin

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Are you sure? Both Australia and NZ have been playing King Canute with the virus, obsessing over zero-covid measures even when zero-covid measures aren't working. And now in Queensland they are setting up concentration, erm health camps run by people sporting outfits that would not have gone amiss in 1930s Germany, and across the blue NZ are proposing that people who live with someone who tests positive to isolate for almost a month! Yeah, seems sane to me!! o_O

BoJo is as useless as a bag of dead badgers, but he isn't as criminally insane as the leaders down under....

I’m inclined to agree; we may have a clueless idiot but the leaders down under are actually deranged!
 

21C101

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*Maltese* Cross, and an official symbol of the State since they first established such symbols. Queensland is Australia's 'special' place, and at times our national embarrassment, but I don't think the use of the Maltese Cross emblem is one of them.
Use of the Maltese Cross is one thing.

Use of a black Maltese Cross in a white circle with a red ring on the armband of the black uniform of a Quarantine Camp Commandant Commissioner is another matter entirely.
 
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