What is the Covid-19 Exit Strategy of 'Zero Covid' countries such as Hong Kong?

[Cdd89]

Notwithstanding their poor vaccination coverage in the groups that matter, does this suggest their vaccines are sufficiently effective against severe outcomes?

I recall this being a big question mark as they hadn’t been challenged with a real “wave”; possibly it’s still too soon to tell.



I see Campbell says he doesn’t understand why China is transferring people to quarantine facilities who tested negative. But that is exactly what we did to those who arrived from the Red List. It is the logical conclusion of purporting to accept “zero” risk.

 

[island]

Parts of Shanghai are now entering day 32 of its 5-day snap lockdown. They have daily mass testing per neighbourhood, and a positive test locks down 20,000 people for a week. Food logistics are creaking. Some office-based staff have been ordered to live in their office blocks and haven't left in 4 weeks. So much for the lockdown approach.

 

[Eyersey468]

Parts of Shanghai are now entering day 32 of its 5-day snap lockdown. They have daily mass testing per neighbourhood, and a positive test locks down 20,000 people for a week. Food logistics are creaking. Some office-based staff have been ordered to live in their office blocks and haven't left in 4 weeks. So much for the lockdown approach.

Just shows how unsustainable lockdowns are. I was going to say ultimately pointless as well but will concede a short total lockdown may buy a little time, however at enormous cost.

 

[nw1]

Parts of Shanghai are now entering day 32 of its 5-day snap lockdown. They have daily mass testing per neighbourhood, and a positive test locks down 20,000 people for a week. Food logistics are creaking. Some office-based staff have been ordered to live in their office blocks and haven't left in 4 weeks. So much for the lockdown approach.

Someone should tell Xi "it's ok to admit you got it wrong". Only the admission by the government that they took the wrong approach will end the evident hell in Shanghai.

 

[Eyersey468]

Someone should tell Xi "it's ok to admit you got it wrong". Only the admission by the government that they took the wrong approach will end the evident hell in Shanghai.

They will never do that as they have to save face

 

[Freightmaster]

They will never do that as they have to save face

How does needlessly damaging their economy 'save face'?





MARK

 

[Eyersey468]

How does needlessly damaging their economy 'save face'?





MARK

I agree they are needlessly damaging their economy. They kept banging on about how well they were doing with their harsh lockdowns etc and basically pressured the west into following them with lockdowns and they now seem to be incapable of admitting they made a bad mistake.

 

[Freightmaster]

They kept banging on about how well they were doing with their harsh lockdowns etc and basically pressured the west into following them with lockdowns and they now seem to be incapable of admitting they made a bad mistake.

...and by doing so, they have become the laughing stock of the world, Covid wise;
exactly the opposite of 'saving face', if you ask me!




MARK

 

[Eyersey468]

...and by doing so, they have become the laughing stock of the world, Covid wise;
exactly the opposite of 'saving face', if you ask me!




MARK

I completely agree

 

[nedchester]

An insight into the Shanghai lockdown:

Escape from Shanghai: my harrowing flight from the world's strictest lockdown

Hidden in the back of a car under a pile of boxes, one man escaped Shanghai after three weeks of hunger and fear

www.codastory.com

...The thing to understand about our situation is this: Shanghai was in total lockdown. Everyone was inside their homes. Nobody was allowed to be out on the streets. For residents of Shanghai that’s one thing — but if, like me, you’re not from Shanghai, and have no home to go to, you’re utterly stranded. The city of Shanghai considered its responsibility to quarantine me for 21 days over, so they said I couldn’t live in their facilities anymore....

 

[3rd rail land]

An insight into the Shanghai lockdown:

Escape from Shanghai: my harrowing flight from the world's strictest lockdown

Hidden in the back of a car under a pile of boxes, one man escaped Shanghai after three weeks of hunger and fear

www.codastory.com

We've all heard how bad it is in China at the moment but no way did I think it was this dire. To not be allowed back to your own home, after completing 21 days of quarantine and 17 negative PCR tests, is truly staggering. Trying to blame the US for bringing Covid into China when the disease originated in China is totally out of order. I hope the authorities in China get charged with crimes against humanity although sadly I don't believe it covers what China is doing to its citizens.

 

[hst43102]

Just seen this article on a car news website about China's new "robosweepers" - fully autonomous road sweepers which also disinfect and sanitize the road surface, supposedly to stop the spread of coronavirus. These vehicles look like rejected props from a post-apocalyptic film.

The Robosweeper Is An Autonomous EV Truck Designed To Clean And Sanitize Public Roads | Carscoops

A fleet of driverless and fully electriic Robosweepers is ready to start testing in Guangzhou, China

www.carscoops.com

Robosweeper can clean public roads with sweeping, sprinkling, and disinfection spraying functions from the sides and from the back.

The vehicle looks like a bus that was converted as a prop vehicle for a sci-fi movie. However, it is not a concept but a fully functional, production-ready vehicle. The heavily tinted windows are hiding the lack of a cockpit since there is no driver inside the vehicle. The sensors sticking out of the body are allowing Level 4 autonomy, a feature that hasn’t been offered yet in production vehicles.

 

[kristiang85]

We've all heard how bad it is in China at the moment but no way did I think it was this dire. To not be allowed back to your own home, after completing 21 days of quarantine and 17 negative PCR tests, is truly staggering. Trying to blame the US for bringing Covid into China when the disease originated in China is totally out of order. I hope the authorities in China get charged with crimes against humanity although sadly I don't believe it covers what China is doing to its citizens.

I'm now convinced this is about a lot more than the virus. It is utterly insane.

 

[3rd rail land]

Has the Chinese economy totally collapsed yet? Would such a situation stop the madness? If not what do people think it would take to end the madness going on in China?

 

[OuterDistant]

A revolution, probably.

It's a communist dictatorship. They cannot admit they have made the wrong decision. Ever.

 

[kristiang85]

Has the Chinese economy totally collapsed yet? Would such a situation stop the madness? If not what do people think it would take to end the madness going on in China?

I think I read that they have a lot of reserves and can be quite self sufficient for a while. If the aim is to disrupt the west, I think we will have consequences a lot sooner than the Chinese government (I say government as they don't really care about their people, they are just tiny cogs in the machine to them).

 

[SurreyCommuter]

There was something similar to this in the Sunday Times this week but not quite as harrowing. I'll see if I can find the link to it and share.

 

[kristiang85]

Talking of harrowing, someone was burned to death in Shanghai after they couldn't evacuate their building as the doors had been locked from the outside due to quarantining. It's vile.

 

[Cdd89]

If the aim is to disrupt the west, I think we will have consequences a lot sooner than the Chinese government

I think I would (slightly pedantically) pick up on the word “aim”. If that were their primary intention, it strikes me that they could do so far more easily without so much pain inflicted to themselves.

I would agree however that they may be noting how much difficulty the West finds itself in without China, in view of any potential Russia-like sanctions the West may consider imposing if they expand militarily.

 

[Freightmaster]

If the aim is to disrupt the west...

Why on earth would they want to 'bite the hand that feeds'??


(i.e. economically damaging the west would severely compromise their main source of exports/foreign investment/employment)




MARK

 

[kristiang85]

Why on earth would they want to 'bite the hand that feeds'??


(i.e. economically damaging the west would severely compromise their main source of exports/foreign investment/employment)




MARK

Possibly to distract us with our supply chain shortages whilst they ramp up action in Taiwan?

 

[DustyBin]

Possibly to distract us with our supply chain shortages whilst they ramp up action in Taiwan?

Part of me thinks that with the West being distracted they may see this as an opportunity, whilst part of me thinks that the situation in Ukraine may serve as a cautionary tale. My understanding is that any invasion of Taiwan would be difficult at best, and I'm not sure the Chinese would want to be cast as a pariah on the world stage in the way that Russia now is. I could be totally wrong obviously....

 

[nw1]

Part of me thinks that with the West being distracted they may see this as an opportunity, whilst part of me thinks that the situation in Ukraine may serve as a cautionary tale. My understanding is that any invasion of Taiwan would be difficult at best, and I'm not sure the Chinese would want to be cast as a pariah on the world stage in the way that Russia now is. I could be totally wrong obviously....

Even though Xi is an authoritarian power-freak who seems unable to to admit he's made bad decisions (thinking of the Zero Covid approach here) and Shanghai is suffering the consequences, I think there is a certain level of pragmatism about the Chinese government which would stop them doing anything too silly in Taiwan and risking the vital trade links they have with the west. Essentially Xi is bad, rather than mad - while Putin is both. They care about the trade but they don't give a damn about their own people - but Putin appears to care about neither.

 

[DustyBin]

Even though Xi is an authoritarian power-freak who seems unable to to admit he's made bad decisions (thinking of the Zero Covid approach here) and Shanghai is suffering the consequences, I think there is a pragmatism about the Chinese government which would stop them doing anything too silly in Taiwan and risking the vital trade links they have with the west. Essentially Xi is bad, rather than mad - while Putin is both.

Yes that's my thinking too (although I'm not sure Putin really is mad).

 

[kristiang85]

Beijing is now closing metros and bus routes to stop people moving about. It seems lockdown is coming to the capital...

 

[nw1]

Beijing is now closing metros and bus routes to stop people moving about. It seems lockdown is coming to the capital...

Oh for heaven's sake. Admit you're wrong, Xi, rather than psychologically torturing your people.

 

[Cdd89]

Oh for heaven's sake. Admit you're wrong, Xi, rather than psychologically torturing your people.

The unforced political errors of despots are bizarre to watch. The winning move was so obviously to vaccine during the 16 months in which effective vaccines were available, and reopen, claiming the credit as the state that “got Covid right”, and saved the world with their protocols and scientists. Instead, they seem repellant to the international community and are likely causing a worldwide shift away from their ideology.

I think he’s a bit stuck now. As you say, he can’t release the containment measures without admitting he got it wrong, and therefore that the recent containment measures were a waste of time. And the longer this goes on for, the more damaging it is to back out.

 

[Eyersey468]

The unforced political errors of despots are bizarre to watch. The winning move was so obviously to vaccine during the 16 months in which effective vaccines were available, and reopen, claiming the credit as the state that “got Covid right”, and saved the world with their protocols and scientists. Instead, they seem repellant to the international community and are likely causing a worldwide shift away from their ideology.

I think he’s a bit stuck now. As you say, he can’t release the containment measures without admitting he got it wrong, and therefore that the recent containment measures were a waste of time. And the longer this goes on for, the more damaging it is to back out.

I agree. Seems to me as only the complete collapse of the economy will force his hand. Hopefully though this will mean other nations never again contemplate lockdowns

 

[yorkie]

John Campbell has produced another excellent video, part of which is on the subject of criticising China's policy, and comparing it to that of sensible countries, such as Denmark.

17:41 ...so surely we just need to guard the
17:43 vulnerable people and go around and
17:44 vaccinate them the resources used for
17:47 that would be thousands of times less
17:49 than testing the entire population...

18:22 ...why they don't just guard the vulnerable
18:24 and give them a third dose of
18:26 vaccine rather than spend all this
18:29 effort on all these people going around
18:31 in hazmat suits and
18:33 it really is a a chilling orwellian
18:36 picture
18:36 so why they don't follow that simple
18:38 strategy
18:40 which is so obviously that the best
18:42 track to take in my view is is really
18:44 quite really quite strange but they're
18:46 not
18:47 so there we go a tale of two uh
18:50 approaches china
18:51 zero covered denmark let it rip...

At some point China is going to have to admit that the only viable way out of this is to reach a state of endemic equilibrium with the virus, just as we have with many other viruses, including similar viruses such as HCoV-OC43.

Oh for heaven's sake. Admit you're wrong, Xi, rather than psychologically torturing your people.

Whinnie-the-Pooh will never admit to being wrong, even when it's obvious.

Just seen this article on a car news website about China's new "robosweepers" - fully autonomous road sweepers which also disinfect and sanitize the road surface, supposedly to stop the spread of coronavirus. These vehicles look like rejected props from a post-apocalyptic film.

The Robosweeper Is An Autonomous EV Truck Designed To Clean And Sanitize Public Roads | Carscoops

A fleet of driverless and fully electriic Robosweepers is ready to start testing in Guangzhou, China

www.carscoops.com

This is great; anyone who goes round touching road surfaces can be sure they will not be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 particles. This will ensure China never reaches endemic equilibrium and remains in the epidemic phase indefinitely

 

[Eyersey468]

Maybe China wants to remain in the epidemic phase so their leaders can continue to bring in pointless and stupid rules