• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

What is the Covid-19 Exit Strategy of 'Zero Covid' countries such as Hong Kong?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
15,979
Location
0036
Shanghai's 9-day snap lockdown which started in March ended yesterday.

Masks are still required indoors and outdoors in most public places, and PCR tests 3 times a week.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
Shanghai's 9-day snap lockdown which started in March ended yesterday.

Masks are still required indoors and outdoors in most public places, and PCR tests 3 times a week.

On Sky News last night some complete idiot expert was trying to argue that they’ll now be able to return to normal and that the “zero-covid” approach is the right one. No mention of the oppression and suffering. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious.
 

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,451
Shanghai's 9-day snap lockdown which started in March ended yesterday.
Not for long, it seems:

Multiple neighborhoods in Shanghai were placed back under lockdown only a day after city-wide restrictions were lifted, as China's stringent zero-Covid strategy continues to haunt the financial hub.
Shanghai lifted its two-month lockdown on Wednesday, allowing most of its 25 million residents to leave their communities. But nearly 2 million people were still confined to their homes in areas designated as "high risk" by the government.
At a news conference Thursday, Shanghai officials said seven new Covid cases were detected in the city's Jing'an and Pudong districts, resulting in four neighborhoods being swiftly sealed off and designated as "medium-risk areas" -- meaning residents will be confined to their homes for 14 days.

Meanwhile, I see Hong Kong has reported a significant increase:

Chart showing increase from 40/1m to 50/1m over 3 days
Chart showing increase from 40/1m to 50/1m over 3 days

Due to their absolutely massive number of cases, they very rapidly reached a localised herd immunity, but that was obviously going to fall apart once enough people had mixed and relocated. When it happens I expect another very large wave there.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
Not for long, it seems:


The CCP (the Chinese Control-Freak Party, of course), strikes again.

Sooner or later though, presumably the economic damage of this authoritarian nonsense will be so great that they will have to change tack.
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
1,043
Sooner or later though, presumably the economic damage of this authoritarian nonsense will be so great that they will have to change tack.
I don't think so. They have pursued "Zero Covid" for so long and at such a cost it would be impossible for any regime to admit they were wrong, especially such an authoritarian regime as exists in China. Just look at what's happening:

Multiple neighborhoods in Shanghai were placed back under lockdown only a day after city-wide restrictions were lifted, as China's stringent zero-Covid strategy continues to haunt the financial hub.

Shanghai lifted its two-month lockdown on Wednesday, allowing most of its 25 million residents to leave their communities. But nearly 2 million people were still confined to their homes in areas designated as "high risk" by the government.
At a news conference Thursday, Shanghai officials said seven new Covid cases were detected in the city's Jing'an and Pudong districts, resulting in four neighborhoods being swiftly sealed off and designated as "medium-risk areas" -- meaning residents will be confined to their homes for 14 days.


Two million residents confined to barracks for a fortnight because seven - yes SEVEN - cases were detected. This, of course, is utter lunacy but it's been going on for so long that the Chinese government has obviously not yet realised that one definition of madness is to repeatedly do the same thing expecting different results.
 

Freightmaster

Established Member
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
3,470
Two million residents confined to barracks for a fortnight because seven - yes SEVEN - cases were detected.
Wait until they hear that UK society is functioning perfectly well despite hundreds of thousands of 'active' cases
each day without lockdowns, masks or social distancing - their poor brains would probably explode at the thought! o_O





MARK
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
1,043
Wait until they hear that UK society is functioning perfectly well despite hundreds of thousands of 'active' cases
each day without lockdowns, masks or social distancing - their poor brains would probably explode at the thought! o_O





MARK
But will they ever find out? And if they do will they be allowed to believe it?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
On Sky News last night some complete idiot expert was trying to argue that they’ll now be able to return to normal and that the “zero-covid” approach is the right one. No mention of the oppression and suffering. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious.
Who was it? Was it one of the usual pro-mask suspects?

Shanghai's 9-day snap lockdown which started in March ended yesterday.

Masks are still required indoors and outdoors in most public places, and PCR tests 3 times a week.
According to some people, this means they will be able to keep cases low, however when that fails to occur, they will fumble around for one of their usual excuses.

At least the pro-restriction brigade (well, the few remaining ones who openly admit it these days) have stopped going on about how a contact tracing system can eliminate the virus :lol:
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
First Class
Who was it? Was it one of the usual pro-mask suspects?

I think they were from one of the international organisations but I didn’t catch their name. I’m sure I’ve seen them before though spouting pro-restriction nonsense.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
A total of 166 Covid infections in China have been linked to a single bar in the capital Beijing, officials say.
A government spokesman described the outbreak as "ferocious"...
...Chinese officials have reversed the relaxation of some Covid rules in Beijing because of the outbreak...
Hardly surprising!

When will they learn!?
 

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,451
Hong Kong’s covid cases have increased 370% from their base. Unfortunately, their new health secretary appears to be a Zero Covid fanatic.

Their reaction to the inevitable further increase will be interesting. The accusation that the West failed to control covid is ridiculous from a country with such low vaccination rates.

For Hong Kong residents hoping the city will end its strict quarantine policies soon, the city’s new health secretary isn’t likely to inspire confidence.
Lo Chung-mau, approved by Beijing over the weekend as part of new Chief Executive John Lee’s Cabinet, made headlines in February saying that Hong Kong needed to maintain Covid Zero because living with the virus would “get us all killed.” At the time, he said the US and Europe were only easing restrictions because they failed to control Covid-19.
Lo appeared to soften his tone during his first meeting with the press on Sunday, saying that not all of the mainland’s Covid-19 guidelines are right for Hong Kong. He vowed to implement an “evidence-based Covid policy” to allow Hong Kong to reconnect with both the international community and mainland China, echoing a line frequently voiced by other city officials.
“By employing scientific, effective and precise control measures, the maximum results can be achieved with the minimum cost,” Lo said, citing a slogan frequently found in Chinese President Xi Jinping’s speeches and Communist Party propaganda.
Lo, 61, will be a key figure in deciding whether Hong Kong finally backs away from the harsh Covid policies that have cut off the once financial hub from the world, even if main competitor Singapore opens up fully. Alongside a seven-day quarantine for travelers, the city is still forcing some low-infection cases and close contacts into spartan isolation camps while issuing mandatory testing notices to thousands of people almost daily.
The new leader, Lee, who takes office on July 1, has not indicated whether he will change his policy.
Outgoing CEO Carrie Lam said over the weekend Hong Kong’s strict border control measures were “unsustainable,” the South China Morning Post reported. She quoted them as saying the business world was losing patience and a decision on whether to ease policy must be made soon.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
6,865
Of course I am absolutely sure that Lo Chung-mau is a hypocrite who has complete freedom to do what he wants, and despite being officially a "communist" I am sure he lives an utterly luxurious lifestyle.
 

brad465

Established Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
6,968
Location
Taunton or Kent
Here's the latest bizarre claim from North Korea:


North Korea's Covid outbreak began with citizens touching "alien things" that had fallen near its South Korea border, state media in Pyongyang has claimed.
Citizens were urged to be vigilant around objects that may have blown across the border from the South.
For years activists in the South have flown balloons across the border to send leaflets and humanitarian aid.
In response, Seoul says there is "no possibility" Covid could have crossed the border in that way.
According to North Korea's state media, an official investigation found two people who became infected with Covid early on in the outbreak after coming into contact with unidentified materials near the South Korean border.
An 18-year-old soldier and five-year-old child tested positive for the virus in early April after finding the objects on a hill in Ipho-ri, it reported.
Since then, state media said: "The malignant Covid-19 virus...has rapidly spread in the DPRK [North Korea]."
As a result of the investigation, people in the country are instructed to "vigilantly deal with alien things coming by wind and other climate phenomena and balloons in the areas along the demarcation line and borders."
Anyone who notices a strange object is instructed to report it immediately so it can be swiftly removed by an emergency anti-epidemic team.
Although the report did not mention South Korea directly, Seoul's unification ministry strongly denied the North's explanation for how Covid could have got into the country.
The closed border between the Koreas is one of the most heavily guarded in the world, but defectors and South Korean activists have for years launched balloons across the divide with anti-North Korean messages.

Since late April North Korea has been battling an explosive wave of 4.7 million cases of "fever," believed to be untested Covid infections.
Kim Jong-un described the outbreak in May as the greatest "turmoil to fall on our country since the founding", state media reported.
Until this year the reclusive nation had claimed to be completely Covid-free - although some experts believe the virus may have been circulating before then.
Its population of 25 million is vulnerable due to the lack of a vaccination programme and poor healthcare system, although in recent weeks there have been media reports that Pyongyang has accepted an offer of Chinese-manufactured vaccines.
It's not clear how many North Koreans, if any, have so far been vaccinated.
In the last few weeks officials say the number of new cases has dropped dramatically but many suspect the government of under-reporting the true figures.
The outbreak began some months after the North eased a strict lockdown of its border with China - with freight trains resuming their journeys between the two countries for the first time since early 2020.
Any suggestion that the virus could have entered the country this way, especially as China was dealing with a severe outbreak of the Omicron variant, would have raised difficult and diplomatically sensitive questions, North Korea expert Professor Lim Eul-chul told Reuters news agency.
"If they concluded the virus was from China they would have had to tighten quarantine measures on the border area in a further setback to North Korea-China trade," he said.
 

Freightmaster

Established Member
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
3,470

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
I see they managed to get masks in 9 times, but not once did they point out the huge difference in effectiveness between tight fitting respirators and flimsy loose fitting face coverings.
I counted the mask/masks 13 times but agree they haven't pointed out the difference in effectiveness
 

Richard Scott

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
3,673
I counted the mask/masks 13 times but agree they haven't pointed out the difference in effectiveness
I fail to understand the obsession some politicians/media (and members of general public) have with masks. If they were that good there would be next to no cases. How can they not make the link and see this? It's rubbish science, even a basic understanding of science tells you that if something doesn't work and doing more of it gives you same results then the conclusion should be 'It's never going to work'!
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
I fail to understand the obsession some politicians/media (and members of general public) have with masks. If they were that good there would be next to no cases. How can they not make the link and see this? It's rubbish science, even a basic understanding of science tells you that if something doesn't work and doing more of it gives you same results then the conclusion should be 'It's never going to work'!
I agree completely. I will concede that FFP3 masks IF worn and stored properly AND changed regularly help protect the wearer, however the vast majority of face coverings are nothing more than a placebo. If that wasn't the case there would be some actual evidence to the contrary by now, and there isn't.
 
Last edited:

Richard Scott

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
3,673
I agree completely. I will concede that FFP3 masks IF worn and stored properly AND changed regularly help protect the wearer, however the vast majority of face coverings are nothing more than a placebo. If that wasn't the case there would be some actual evidence to the contrary by now, and there isn't.
I concurr that FFP3s worn correctly, as you say, will help protect the wearer. Seeing as places like Austria mandated FFP2s, which didn't seems to affect their case numbers, shows that even those really don't make a difference.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
The thing is people can wear FFP2/3 masks and be protected while wearing them (more so with FFP3s than FFP2s) but what then? Unless someone lives as a hermit and never does anything that requires the mask to be taken off, such as eating in the presence of another human (or potentially an animal such as a cat!) they will still end up being exposed to the virus, at some point!

Edit (27/07) and so it continues...

Almost one million people in a suburb of Wuhan - China's central city where the coronavirus was first recorded - have been placed under lockdown.
Jiangxia district residents have been ordered to stay inside their homes or compounds for three days after four asymptomatic Covid cases were detected.

Sadly the BBC are pedalling misinformation:
At the time, the wider world was shocked by the strict lockdown, but many cities and countries were soon forced to impose their own similar measures.
Countries were not forced to; they chose to.

However the BBC do admit that people were wrong to label China as a success story:
Later, China became known as a Covid success story, with restrictions lifted much earlier than in many other countries.

But that has changed again, with China pursuing a "zero Covid" strategy resulting in frequent local lockdowns, rather than trying to live with the virus as in most other countries.
Surprising that the BBC admit this!

And how long is this sustainable for...?
In order to keep parts of the economy open, employees have been told to live temporarily in their workplaces to minimise contact between work and home.
 
Last edited:

TPO

Member
Joined
7 Jun 2018
Messages
346
I fail to understand the obsession some politicians/media (and members of general public) have with masks. If they were that good there would be next to no cases. How can they not make the link and see this? It's rubbish science, even a basic understanding of science tells you that if something doesn't work and doing more of it gives you same results then the conclusion should be 'It's never going to work'!

It's about control and the plebs showing they are conforming to what their "betters" want. Remember, the vast majority of media people are privately educated (in non-science subjects) and from affluent backgrounds, similarly with politicians. They have tasted control and don't want to give it back. There's a particular episode of Yes, Minister which sums the attitude up perfectly (the one with Agnes Moorhouse in for those who know the series- "we know whats good for them, the little people are stupid, they don't know what's good for them"). That's why politicians and journos were not averse to partying and rule-breaking during the first time around- they believe that rules are for little people. Much as I dislike Boris, most of the no. 10 breaches were by the staff- who I would bet are comprised of the "cream" of the output of the top universities/pubic school.

In future, the media should not be regarded as an "essential" service and so they must be prevented from working during restrictions and not allowed to have pay. Might focus a few minds.

Social control and propaganda is very powerful, we enable it at our peril!

TPO
 

Freightmaster

Established Member
Joined
7 Jul 2009
Messages
3,470
It's about control and the plebs showing they are conforming to what their "betters" want. Remember, the vast majority of media people are privately educated (in non-science subjects) and from affluent backgrounds, similarly with politicians. They have tasted control and don't want to give it back. There's a particular episode of Yes, Minister which sums the attitude up perfectly (the one with Agnes Moorhouse in for those who know the series- "we know whats good for them, the little people are stupid, they don't know what's good for them"). That's why politicians and journos were not averse to partying and rule-breaking during the first time around- they believe that rules are for little people.

"Do as I say - not as I do!!"









MARK
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,037
Remember, the vast majority of media people are privately educated (in non-science subjects) and from affluent backgrounds, similarly with politicians.
I don't think that's even remotely true of media people, and it's decreasingly true of politicians
 

TPO

Member
Joined
7 Jun 2018
Messages
346
I don't think that's even remotely true of media people, and it's decreasingly true of politicians

I think you might be surprised. The old route of getting into media via local newspapers is largely gone as there's so few paid local reporters these days. These days it's unpaid internships in London which only a minority can afford. Once you dig a bit into the background of typical BBC or Graun journos the proportion from private school is surprisingly elevated (as it is in parts of the law- probably for similar reasons i.e. the unpaid internships/pupillage).

As soon as the major route into a job becomes an unpaid internship (usually in London), that tend to define those who can afford to do it.

TPO
 

Ted633

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
270
Oh dear

...an official notice states that some forms of sealife are also expected to join the latest mass-testing drive.

In recent weeks, Xiamen's Jimei Maritime Pandemic Control district committee issued a notice saying that when fishermen return to their ports "both fishermen and their seafood must be tested".

The result has been that amid this latest outbreak, video footage has appeared on multiple social media platforms including Douyin - China's local version of TikTok - showing medical workers giving live fish and crabs Covid-19 PCR tests...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,451
They had quite a little industry producing billions of wasteful plastic test kits for the world; so now the world has mostly lost interest in them, they must have a ridiculous supply domestically.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
Today I saw several large boxes of Covid tests marked as expired for disposal. Such a waste of resources and money (all to China's benefit, of course) which so sad to see in that sense, but in another way it was good to see that no-one wanted them!

The pandemic was great for China from the point of view of supplying the world with flimsy ineffective surgical masks, Covid tests and PPE. I agree China probably now has an oversupply and are trying to find a use for them domestically.

Xi 'Winnie the Pooh' Jinping is an extremely dangerous and utterly bonkers individual, as are his cronies and supporters.

More madness from China:
A volleyball match which saw China's national women's team compete while wearing N95 masks has caused a stir on Chinese social media.
Many netizens expressed their anger, suggesting that the health of players was being sacrificed for the sake of the country's zero-Covid strategy.
The players later took their masks off for the second set and went on to win.
China's Volleyball Association later apologised, saying the decision was made was due to a "lack of experience".
But many remained critical, with one saying it was an example of officials taking China's mask mandate "too far"..
Hopefully the people of China will continue to question the country's ludicrous policies.

Let's not forget the same madness would be applied in the UK if the zero Covid zealots had their way.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,429
Location
Yorkshire
Things aren't going well for Winnie the Pooh:

A rare protest attacking President Xi Jinping and China's Covid restrictions has taken place in Beijing, days before a historic Communist Party congress.

Images showed two protest banners on a bridge in the north-west of the city. The protest appeared to have been swiftly stopped by the authorities.

Frustration has been mounting in the capital before the congress...
...It comes amid a growing fatigue among ordinary Chinese with the "zero Covid" strategy that has seen harsh lockdowns and quarantine measures, long after other countries have eased restrictions....

They have no exit strategy, but if they continue down this path, it won't go well for them.
 

43066

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2019
Messages
9,214
Location
London
Things aren't going well for Winnie the Pooh:




They have no exit strategy, but if they continue down this path, it won't go well for them.

This kind of thing should come as no surprise given that China is far from a free country. It is an evil, dystopian dictatorship which operates a market for the organs of executed criminals. It is no better than Stalinist (let alone Putinist) Russia, North Korea or Nazi Germany.

The only reason they are given a free pass by the West is because they have a large and growing economy, make iPhone chips etc. Much like Saudi Arabia with oil.

We should all be ashamed of enabling this regime, whether via our purchasing habits, or the governments we elect.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top