What work is happening to enable Woodhouse Colliery to be served by rail?

[snakeeyes]

Hi, I have searched for a post on this but couldn't find anything.
Woodhouse Colliery, the new proposed mine in Cumbria, are planning on export coal from Redcar Bulk Terminal.
would the existing rail network sufficient to cope or would some closed ones be reopened?

https://www.westcumbriamining.com/wp-content/uploads/WCM-Project-Update-210mm-sq-Dec18_R12_LR_FORWEBSITE.pdf

WCM have pledged to move all product by rail via a buried 2.2km long conveyor to a train loading facility, with its own dedicated siding, on the Cumbria Coast railway line.

The trains will be loaded with a fast turn-around (approximately 45 minutes) using a high speed train loader

Once the coal is loaded into the rail wagons, it will then be transported by rail direct to Redcar Bulk Terminal, an operational deep port facility on the East Coast, for onward shipment to Europe (18 hours to Rotterdam) or UK steel producers.

 

[xotGD]

Presumably Cumbrian Coast, Tyne Valley, Durham Coast.

 

[Gloster]

The Non-Technical Summary of the Planning Application Environmental Statement mentions signalling improvements between Wigton and Maryport, so the route will be via Carlisle. The terminal will be about half-a-mile south of where the Moor Row line went off at Corkickle No. 1 Signal Box.

 

[30907]

The Non-Technical Summary of the Planning Application Environmental Statement mentions signalling improvements between Wigton and Maryport, so the route will be via Carlisle. The terminal will be about half-a-mile south of where the Moor Row line went off at Corkickle No. 1 Signal Box.

Thanks for clarifying the location - Cumbria is a big area!
Makes good sense as a route - via Carnforth, Copy Pit and Castleford would be a detour and heavily-graded at that.

 

[randyrippley]

Carnforth would be a problem as it would need a reversal. The bridge on the direct route isn't safe and has been closed for years.
Also are the Arnside and other viaducts up to the weight? Its only a few years since Arnside had to be rescued from a state of incipient closure with a major rebuild

 

[Gloster]

Carnforth would be a problem as it would need a reversal. The bridge on the direct route isn't safe and has been closed for years.

The line from East Junction to F&M Junction has been closed for some years, all signalling removed and the junctions plain-lined.

 

[30907]

The line from East Junction to F&M Junction has been closed for some years, all signalling removed and the junctions plain-lined.

Which is why I mentioned Copy Pit not Bentham

 

[Baxenden Bank]

There was a thread, probably about the time the planning application was submitted. Can't find it at the moment thought - too many other references in response to a search for 'Woodhouse' or 'Moorside'

 

[xotGD]

Is the curve to get from the Cumbrian Coast to the Tyne Valley still open? Otherwise a reversal at Carlisle would be needed.

 

[AJP62]

Yes, that's still open.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I don't think that anything is actually 'happening' on the rail network yet. The route for the flow would be via Carlisle and Tyne Valley as noted above. A maximum of around seven trains per day each way is not a huge number but will undoubtedly play into general capacity planning. For example block section lengths on traditionally signalled parts of the route and general re-modelling around Newcastle and Tees-side. This wouldn't justify things like re-opening Leamside on its own.

 

[xotGD]

Yes, that's still open.

Thanks.

Edit - extra bit:

Won't some of the coal be going to the steel works at Scunthorpe? If so, a more southerly route may be an option.

 

[Gloster]

The summary mentioned above says that metallurgical and middlings coal will go to Redcar for export. Metallurgical coal will also go to Scunthorpe and Port Talbot.

 

[themiller]

Carnforth would be a problem as it would need a reversal. The bridge on the direct route isn't safe and has been closed for years.
Also are the Arnside and other viaducts up to the weight? Its only a few years since Arnside had to be rescued from a state of incipient closure with a major rebuild

Both Arnside and Plumpton viaducts have been extensively repaired in recent years with new deck/bridge sections throughout. The speed restrictions have been raised but I don't know what the current ones are. I assume that the weight restrictions mentioned above have been raised.

 

[xotGD]

The summary mentioned above says that metallurgical and middlings coal will go to Redcar for export. Metallurgical coal will also go to Scunthorpe and Port Talbot.

Thanks. Could go via Carlisle, S&C, Knottingley to get to Scunthorpe.

 

[Class 170101]

Would be interesting to see how many paths they need and whether or not its achievable across the Tyne Valley with 3tph from Hexham to Newcastle.

 

[Roose]

It was good to read a headline in June/July 2019 that the government had awarded £7.5 million towards improvements to the Cumbria Coast Line.

It was massively deflating to learn in the body of the article that this sum will produce just a report detailing how to make those improvements.

Perhaps they will include a free map.

 

[markymark2000]

I don't think that anything is actually 'happening' on the rail network yet. The route for the flow would be via Carlisle and Tyne Valley as noted above. A maximum of around seven trains per day each way is not a huge number but will undoubtedly play into general capacity planning. For example block section lengths on traditionally signalled parts of the route and general re-modelling around Newcastle and Tees-side. This wouldn't justify things like re-opening Leamside on its own.

7 trains per day, each way is a huge number really when you compare it to other flows in the UK which tend to be no more than 2 per day (Even intermodal flows which look to run more frequently, you have to look at the operators and the customers. IE a Tesco train and Asda train are different flows even if they both run Mossend to Daventry (Not sure if Asda still do this flow but it works for the comparison). Anything more than 2 trains per day each way on a flow is very good. Especially for a brand new flow.

My question is, is there capacity on the Cumbrian Coast to slot these trains in? There are a lot of manual signal boxes (which normally means signals are further apart so there is less actual capacity) and quite a few single line sections. Will it all slot in ok during the day? Nights may be an issue as well as the line often closes for night maintenance.

 

[wallan]

Is some of this Coal not due to go to Scunthorpe & South Wales

 

[Gloster]

Is some of this Coal not due to go to Scunthorpe & South Wales

See #13.

 

[Spartacus]

My question is, is there capacity on the Cumbrian Coast to slot these trains in? There are a lot of manual signal boxes (which normally means signals are further apart so there is less actual capacity) and quite a few single line sections. Will it all slot in ok during the day? Nights may be an issue as well as the line often closes for night maintenance.

I believe the company involved in the pit will be helping fund improvements, probably in the form of intermediate blocks, like the ones introduced on the Settle - Carlisle.

 

[Gloster]

The BBC is reporting that the county council are reconsidering the decision to grant permission for mining until 2049. Whether the permission will be cancelled altogether or the deadline cut back to 2035 (the supposed date for the end of the use of coking coal) or it is just for show, remains to be seen. However, the council is a Labour and Liberal Democrat coalition, so they are probably not just doing it to save Boris Johnson’s blushes at the Climate Change Conference in Glasgow in November.

 

[158756]

The BBC is reporting that the county council are reconsidering the decision to grant permission for mining until 2049. Whether the permission will be cancelled altogether or the deadline cut back to 2035 (the supposed date for the end of the use of coking coal) or it is just for show, remains to be seen. However, the council is a Labour and Liberal Democrat coalition, so they are probably not just doing it to save Boris Johnson’s blushes at the Climate Change Conference in Glasgow in November.

Whilst work is being done on more environmentally friendly methods of steel production, right now this deadline amounts to nothing more than a commitment to destroy British jobs. It's the same with this mine - everyone is happy to use steel, and thus to burn coal, but only as long as British workers do not benefit. All that lovely Green Chinese steel has helped our carbon emissions no end.

 

[ABB125]

Indeed - is it better for the environment to use domestically-sourced coal, domestically-sourced iron ore (do we use that? I'm assuming so, but am happy to be corrected) and domestic production plants, or buy steel from the other side of the globe, produced in factories with probably lower (or non-existent) emissions standards, and ship it on boats powered by [sarcasm] incredibly green [/sarcasm] heavy oil? Plus the benefits to the economy of domestic employment, corporation tax etc.

 

[Spartacus]

Indeed - is it better for the environment to use domestically-sourced coal, domestically-sourced iron ore (do we use that? I'm assuming so, but am happy to be corrected) and domestic production plants, or buy steel from the other side of the globe, produced in factories with probably lower (or non-existent) emissions standards, and ship it on boats powered by [sarcasm] incredibly green [/sarcasm] heavy oil? Plus the benefits to the economy of domestic employment, corporation tax etc.

I think practically zero iron ore is sourced in the UK, and even when it was we've long imported more than we've dug ourselves, currently 'high' yield in the UK is around 20% ferrous, low 2%, and those low areas are the only big, easy to get at areas. Elsewhere you can have ores as much as 70% rich, while commercially you need about 25% to be viable. There were higher yield areas but they were generally played out 75-100 years ago.

 

[ABB125]

I think practically zero iron ore is sourced in the UK, and even when it was we've long imported more than we've dug ourselves, currently 'high' yield in the UK is around 20% ferrous, low 2%, and those low areas are the only big, easy to get at areas. Elsewhere you can have ores as much as 70% rich, while commercially you need about 25% to be viable. There were higher yield areas but they were generally played out 75-100 years ago.

Ok, thanks.

 

[furnessvale]

I think practically zero iron ore is sourced in the UK, and even when it was we've long imported more than we've dug ourselves, currently 'high' yield in the UK is around 20% ferrous, low 2%, and those low areas are the only big, easy to get at areas. Elsewhere you can have ores as much as 70% rich, while commercially you need about 25% to be viable. There were higher yield areas but they were generally played out 75-100 years ago.

Iron ore is only one part of the mix in steel making, the other big items being coking coal, limestone and scrap metal, all of which are readily available in the UK.

 

[HSTEd]

If it was necessary, for example for defence purposes, iron ore could be produced ,within the UK, of suffcient quality to be charged in a blast furnace - but it would not be cheap.

 

[bassmike]

Have they considered using steam engines to transport the coal?

 

[Gloster]

The Grauniad is reporting that the project is being called in and there will be a public enquiry. Whether this is just kicking the problem down the road or a reasoned decision remains to be seen.