• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

When will Castleford - Wakefield - Huddersfield services be fully restored?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
1,609
Location
Nottinghamshire
This one, the S&C, the Bentham line spring to mind.
Sheffield to Gainsborough Central also springs to my mind. Another service that didn’t really have long enough before covid to prove itself. A few peak time journeys have been restored but nothing during the main part of the day. The consequence of this is that passengers travelling from Lincoln still have slow trains stopping at all stations between Sheffield and Worksop.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

driverd

Member
Joined
29 Mar 2021
Messages
550
Location
UK
I'm not sure about how the link structure impacts this, but it's always been a route that only a limited number of traincrew sign, there doesn't seem to be much spare capacity, and if it has been a case of route knowledge expiring why has it not been maintained by video refresh through the pandemic?

If by "limited", you mean 6 out of 8 links (equating to circa 200 crew at Leeds alone), then yes, only limited crew sign it... (although, in fairness, its usually at the bottom of the pile to go and learn so there will be a fair few who should but don't sign).

That was fine during the pandemic; the latest agreement means all route refresh has to be carried out in "real life", if you see what I mean - which, just a month in, is leading to some difficulties with crew all aiming for the same 3 trains.
 

47434

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
135
This one, the S&C, the Bentham line spring to mind.
Bentham has the best service it has had in years - it still isn’t brilliant but with the longest block section in the UK to contend with the odds are kind of stacked against it.

Could you share the evidence of service cuts on this and the S&C under the Northern franchise?
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,077
Location
UK
Bentham has the best service it has had in years - it still isn’t brilliant but with the longest block section in the UK to contend with the odds are kind of stacked against it.

Could you share the evidence of service cuts on this and the S&C under the Northern franchise?
I've no idea how it the longest block section in the UK has anything to do with reducing the service to 6 return journeys a day. The reduction has been occasioned by simply removing trains from the timetable, as opposed to any wholesale rewrite.
 

william

Established Member
Joined
13 Jul 2007
Messages
1,439
Location
UK
Not really a train crew problem. Its also ironic that, despite having insufficient crew to run this service, enough crew from (primarily) the same depot have been found to run the new half hourly York via Harrogate services and return Hull - Halifax to hourly from December.

In short, this isn't a crew issue - it's a question of will.
Nothing to do with me.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
Bentham has the best service it has had in years - it still isn’t brilliant but with the longest block section in the UK to contend with the odds are kind of stacked against it.

Could you share the evidence of service cuts on this and the S&C under the Northern franchise?

During the strikes there weren't any trains on them and during the pandemic various services were withdrawn (the last train back on the S&C was late afternoon throughout a lot of last year.

You can probably dig out a timetable from somewhere if you're interested.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,636
Location
Yorkshire
The Bentham Line is returning to having 8 trains a day from the December timetable change looking rather like the pre-Covid timetable.


It'll be possible to get into Lancaster from the Bentham Line before 0900 without having to be there for 0630 again and will reduce the longest gap between trains in each direction from 4 hours to 2.

The May and December 2018 timetables had 7 trains each way with the usual 1 starting/finishing at Skipton.
The September 2020 had 4 each way with an additional RRB from Lancaster. Only 1 train ran from Leeds and 2 to Leeds with the others starting and ending at Skipton (though Sundays had 5 each way along the whole route).
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,036
Location
Airedale
The Bentham Line is returning to having 8 trains a day from the December timetable change looking rather like the pre-Covid timetable.


It'll be possible to get into Lancaster from the Bentham Line before 0900 without having to be there for 0630 again and will reduce the longest gap between trains in each direction from 4 hours to 2.
And the 1018 ex Leeds is back - which pleases me (and yorksrob).
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,077
Location
UK
The Bentham Line is returning to having 8 trains a day from the December timetable change looking rather like the pre-Covid timetable.


It'll be possible to get into Lancaster from the Bentham Line before 0900 without having to be there for 0630 again and will reduce the longest gap between trains in each direction from 4 hours to 2.

The May and December 2018 timetables had 7 trains each way with the usual 1 starting/finishing at Skipton.
The September 2020 had 4 each way with an additional RRB from Lancaster. Only 1 train ran from Leeds and 2 to Leeds with the others starting and ending at Skipton (though Sundays had 5 each way along the whole route).
I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch... Who knows whether the line won't be the subject of yet another 'temporary' (or otherwise) timetable cutback.
 

johntea

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
2,601
Apparently the Castleford - Huddersfield service has now been axed and won't be making a return (although the skeletal service still remains for the moment it seems)

Despite this Yvette Cooper somehow reckons there is plenty of potential for a direct West Yorkshire to South Humberside link(!)

Campaigners call for better rail services in Pontefract and Castleford​

Pontefract Civic Society and MP Yvette Cooper are calling on the government to act now to improve rail services in the five towns.​


 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,336
Location
South Yorkshire
Apparently the Castleford - Huddersfield service has now been axed and won't be making a return (although the skeletal service still remains for the moment it seems)

Despite this Yvette Cooper somehow reckons there is plenty of potential for a direct West Yorkshire to South Humberside link(!)

Campaigners call for better rail services in Pontefract and Castleford​

Pontefract Civic Society and MP Yvette Cooper are calling on the government to act now to improve rail services in the five towns.​


I am not sure about a service to South Humberside but, if true, the permanent withdrawal of the Huddersfield to Castleford service is a disgrace. Who has taken this decision? Northern? Transport for Manchester the north? The DfT? The treasury? Where was the consultation? A number of services in Yorkshire have been cut under the cover of Covid. I doubt many of them will return.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
It is indeed disgraceful that the Castleford - Huddersfield service has been cut. Whilst the extension to Castleford hadn't really got into its stride prior to the pandemic, it's notable that the reasonably used section between Wakefield and Huddersfield has also been axed.

I thought the current Government was supposed to be reversing Beeching, not resurrecting him. (I hope Ms Cooper turns tis into an embarrassing question at PMQ's)

That aside, it would be good to have a decent service beyond Knottingley.
 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,336
Location
South Yorkshire
It is indeed disgraceful that the Castleford - Huddersfield service has been cut. Whilst the extension to Castleford hadn't really got into its stride prior to the pandemic, it's notable that the reasonably used section between Wakefield and Huddersfield has also been axed.

I thought the current Government was supposed to be reversing Beeching, not resurrecting him. (I hope Ms Cooper turns tis into an embarrassing question at PMQ's)

That aside, it would be good to have a decent service beyond Knottingley.
I am waiting for the Christmas period to end and then will contact my MP about the shameful service Northern are (not) operating on the Sheffield tor Doncaster line. Formerly a stopping train every 30 minutes this was reduced to hourly with the first train axed. Tomorrow they have cut the service even further with a third of the trains already cancelled. It is high time Northern were challenged as to their rationale. We are not talking about rural halts here but with stations such as Rotherham (700k pax per year) and Swinton (400k). I cannot help but think this is deliberately engineered. Whether it be Reversing Beeching, levelling up or reducing carbon emissions the government are doing the exact opposite of what they say.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,077
Location
UK
It is indeed disgraceful that the Castleford - Huddersfield service has been cut. Whilst the extension to Castleford hadn't really got into its stride prior to the pandemic, it's notable that the reasonably used section between Wakefield and Huddersfield has also been axed.

I thought the current Government was supposed to be reversing Beeching, not resurrecting him. (I hope Ms Cooper turns tis into an embarrassing question at PMQ's)

That aside, it would be good to have a decent service beyond Knottingley.
With the right path, an hourly Huddersfield-Wakefield service could be delivered with just one unit - it's a journey time of 24 minutes so, in theory, doable. It would certainly be more efficient and useful than having one unit do a two hourly service through to Castleford a handful of times a day.
 

driverd

Member
Joined
29 Mar 2021
Messages
550
Location
UK
Entirely agree, Goole should be increased to atleast 3 times daily, if not hourly - the current service level and timings render it close to useless. Hull extensions should also be considered as a means of providing a secondary route - though personally I would extend the Wakefield service to give more links to the largest population centres.

I don't think the HUD-CAS has yet been permanently axed, the wording isn't quite so clear on that one - I suspect it's a convenience to not re-instate.
 

geoffk

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,250
With the right path, an hourly Huddersfield-Wakefield service could be delivered with just one unit - it's a journey time of 24 minutes so, in theory, doable. It would certainly be more efficient and useful than having one unit do a two hourly service through to Castleford a handful of times a day.
I understood there were plans to reinstate the second platform at Castleford. Is that correct? This will require a new accessible footbridge (unless the subway can be used). How does this stck up with cutting this service as there seems to be no prospect of a service to York.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,806
Location
Yorkshire
I understood there were plans to reinstate the second platform at Castleford. Is that correct? This will require a new accessible footbridge (unless the subway can be used). How does this stck up with cutting this service as there seems to be no prospect of a service to York.
In a separate thread it has been reported there may (or will?) be a TPE service going that way; this might just be temporary during the TP route upgrade, though. If you do a search on the forum you should find it. There is also a speculative thread to discuss what changes people would like to see.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
I am waiting for the Christmas period to end and then will contact my MP about the shameful service Northern are (not) operating on the Sheffield tor Doncaster line. Formerly a stopping train every 30 minutes this was reduced to hourly with the first train axed. Tomorrow they have cut the service even further with a third of the trains already cancelled. It is high time Northern were challenged as to their rationale. We are not talking about rural halts here but with stations such as Rotherham (700k pax per year) and Swinton (400k). I cannot help but think this is deliberately engineered. Whether it be Reversing Beeching, levelling up or reducing carbon emissions the government are doing the exact opposite of what they say.

Yes, I think I will send Ms Cooper an email of support on the issue.

With the right path, an hourly Huddersfield-Wakefield service could be delivered with just one unit - it's a journey time of 24 minutes so, in theory, doable. It would certainly be more efficient and useful than having one unit do a two hourly service through to Castleford a handful of times a day.

That would be a preferable efficiency.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
12,077
Location
UK
I understood there were plans to reinstate the second platform at Castleford. Is that correct? This will require a new accessible footbridge (unless the subway can be used). How does this stck up with cutting this service as there seems to be no prospect of a service to York.
There are lots of things in the works but for the time being (i.e. the next couple of years) there is little prospect of things improving significantly.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,259
Location
West of Andover
I am waiting for the Christmas period to end and then will contact my MP about the shameful service Northern are (not) operating on the Sheffield tor Doncaster line. Formerly a stopping train every 30 minutes this was reduced to hourly with the first train axed. Tomorrow they have cut the service even further with a third of the trains already cancelled. It is high time Northern were challenged as to their rationale. We are not talking about rural halts here but with stations such as Rotherham (700k pax per year) and Swinton (400k). I cannot help but think this is deliberately engineered. Whether it be Reversing Beeching, levelling up or reducing carbon emissions the government are doing the exact opposite of what they say.

I bet the local bus company is enjoying the extra revenue from those rail passengers who have simply given up and switched to using the bus. Assuming there is a bus route which runs close by to those stations served by rail.
 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,336
Location
South Yorkshire
I bet the local bus company is enjoying the extra revenue from those rail passengers who have simply given up and switched to using the bus. Assuming there is a bus route which runs close by to those stations served by rail.
Quite. I wonder which members of government have shares in it. :lol: :lol:
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks

I bet the local bus company is enjoying the extra revenue from those rail passengers who have simply given up and switched to using the bus. Assuming there is a bus route which runs close by to those stations served by rail.

I must admit, I've investigated bus options between the Wakefield area and Huddersfield and there doesn't seem to be a lot.

A traipse via Leeds send to be the main alternative.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,672
Location
Another planet...
I must admit, I've investigated bus options between the Wakefield area and Huddersfield and there doesn't seem to be a lot.

A traipse via Leeds send to be the main alternative.
Basically two buses an hour with Arriva (231/232) during the day. Not much help for Mirfield, mind- that requires a change in Dewsbury.
 

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,202
I must admit, I've investigated bus options between the Wakefield area and Huddersfield and there doesn't seem to be a lot.

A traipse via Leeds send to be the main alternative.
I've taken the 232 in the past, it's quite well patronised at the Wakefield end. No idea whether I could bear it for the full distance though. Better to take the more comfortable 126/7 and then the train from Dewsbury.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
Ah that's interesting. How long does it take Wakefield to Huddersfield out of interest ?
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
I bet the local bus company is enjoying the extra revenue from those rail passengers who have simply given up and switched to using the bus. Assuming there is a bus route which runs close by to those stations served by rail.

Quite. I wonder which members of government have shares in it. :lol: :lol:

I don't think we need to resort to conspiracy theories - but (if we are talking about the Swinton area then) the subsidised railway has meant that the directly competing bus routes have dwindled away over the years since there's no way that commercial bus services could compete - from memory Swinton to Sheffield was the X40/X90 (X91?) - once with bendibuses - but the only Sheffield route that runs in that area is the X78 (which runs direct from Rotherham to Conisbrough, avoiding the dog-leg that the railway takes via Swinton, but serving a lot of suburban Rotherham instead) - there were a handful of contra-peak journeys on the X74 which were more about placing journeys (since the depot in Rotherham was closed, so the 22a/22c Rotherham - Wath circular is operated from Sheffield - plus the minor amount of passengers travelling to the large call centre in the Dearne Valley that I understand has now closed)

The X78 is only half as frequent as it used to be (First used to run it every ten minutes with brand new double deckers in 2007 replaced with brand new double deckers in 2015 with branded seats and other mod-cons - but then reduced to a single decker every twenty minutes - now generally double deckers every twenty minutes)

I must admit, I've investigated bus options between the Wakefield area and Huddersfield and there doesn't seem to be a lot.

A traipse via Leeds send to be the main alternative.
Basically two buses an hour with Arriva (231/232) during the day. Not much help for Mirfield, mind- that requires a change in Dewsbury.

Damn, beat me to it!

(plenty of Wakefield - Dewsbury buses and Dewsbury - Huddersfield buses, but the direct ones run via Emley/ Flockton)

Ah that's interesting. How long does it take Wakefield to Huddersfield out of interest ?

1h10 roughly

 

YorksLad12

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2020
Messages
1,895
Location
Leeds
From memory, while the extension from Wakefield to Castleford gave Normanton two trains per hour in each direction, they were only 7 minutes apart. Better spacing/pathing would make it much more attractive.

I've been saying running more trains from Knottingley to Goole might build some patronage to see if it's worthwhile (the M62 runs quite close nearby but the stations serve small communities) - but wasn't there a landslip or similar, just pre-Covid, so the service was cut back?
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
I don't think we need to resort to conspiracy theories - but (if we are talking about the Swinton area then) the subsidised railway has meant that the directly competing bus routes have dwindled away over the years since there's no way that commercial bus services could compete - from memory Swinton to Sheffield was the X40/X90 (X91?) - once with bendibuses - but the only Sheffield route that runs in that area is the X78 (which runs direct from Rotherham to Conisbrough, avoiding the dog-leg that the railway takes via Swinton, but serving a lot of suburban Rotherham instead) - there were a handful of contra-peak journeys on the X74 which were more about placing journeys (since the depot in Rotherham was closed, so the 22a/22c Rotherham - Wath circular is operated from Sheffield - plus the minor amount of passengers travelling to the large call centre in the Dearne Valley that I understand has now closed)

The X78 is only half as frequent as it used to be (First used to run it every ten minutes with brand new double deckers in 2007 replaced with brand new double deckers in 2015 with branded seats and other mod-cons - but then reduced to a single decker every twenty minutes - now generally double deckers every twenty minutes)




Damn, beat me to it!

(plenty of Wakefield - Dewsbury buses and Dewsbury - Huddersfield buses, but the direct ones run via Emley/ Flockton)



1h10 roughly


In terms of time, that's rather nearer the traipse via Leeds, than the train service which is around half an hour.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top