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When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

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Dai Corner

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Judging by how the majority Labour government of 1997-2010 never introduced PR, we almost need Labour to miss out on a majority in 2023/24 and be the largest party in a hung Parliament. Then with LibDem, SNP and potentially other minority support, they could introduce PR to Westminster. Admittedly the parties would need to agree what form of PR to introduce and constituency/regional boundaries.
Would the SNP support PR in the UK Parliament? In the 2019 election they got 7.4% of the seats with 3.9% of the votes. They and the Conservatives were the many beneficiaries of FPTP. The main losers are the Lib Dem's and Greens.
 
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Domh245

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Would the SNP support PR in the UK Parliament? In the 2019 election they got 7.4% of the seats with 3.9% of the votes. They and the Conservatives were the many beneficiaries of FPTP. The main losers are the Lib Dem's and Greens.

On previous form (2015), the SNP would still support PR (or some other alternative) although they realise and accept that they benefit from it.

CFSnLhXWIAAyH4p

image showing UKIP, Lib Dem, Green leaders + SNP MPs Philippa Whitford and Alison Thewliss


Ukip leader Nigel Farage took part in a cross-party delegation calling for reform to the first-past-the-post electoral system that frustrated his party’s Westminster ambitions.
Together with Green Party leader Natalie Bennett, Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood, acting Liberal Democrat leader Baroness Sal Brinton and new Scottish National Party MPs Philippa Whitford and Alison Thewliss he presented a petition with almost half a million signatures gathered by multiple campaigns.
Mr Farage said the need for change was vital to ensure every vote placed counted equally.
“The results of the general election where five million votes, the views of five million people are now represented by only two MPs; four million people voted for Ukip, for only one seat. It cannot go on like this. It is important to be here, with the Electoral Reform Society supporting its campaign to make votes match seats.”
Unlike the other party leaders, he brought two members with him to the event – deputy chair Suzanne Evans and Ukip’s only MP Douglass Carswell.
Party leaders unite for electoral reform http://t.co/fHucikEdaI #MakeSeatsMatchVotes pic.twitter.com/CIZMnGTJhM
— Electoral Reform Soc (@electoralreform) May 18, 2015
Green Party leader Natalie Bennett said her party would have had 24 representatives in Parliament – instead of the single one they managed – if the first-past-the-post system was replaced by proportional representation. She said it was time for total reform.
“The recent election has demonstrated that we need real change in our constitution. We haven’t seen significant reform at Westminster since women got the vote, and that was 1918 – we shouldn’t get to the centenary of that without getting a fair voting system. We need a total rethink of the way we vote.”
The SNP’s Westminster leader Angus Robertson said their landslide victory did not mean they would start supporting the “unfair” first-past-the-post system.
He said: “The Westminster system is badly in need of reform. The SNP has done well under first-past-the-post this time but we have always supported proportional representation and will continue to do so.
From an unrepresentative voting system to the unelected House of Lords, SNP MPs will be a strong voice in the coming years for the change we need to see.”

Liberal Democrat party president Baroness Brinton said Ukip’s vote share versus the number of seats they won showed how “outrageous” the current system was. Her party have long been advocates for electoral reform. She said: “I may disagree with what Ukip stand for, but for nearly four million people to vote for a party and have just one MP is just outrageous.”

Quickly checking their constitution, they still do call for reform:

We continue to work for democratic reform too. We believe that the House of Lords is an affront to democracy and should be abolished. We will continue to call for the first past the post voting system to be replaced at Westminster with proportional representation, so that every vote and every part of the country counts. We have already extended the franchise in Scottish and local elections to 16 and 17 year olds and will use new powers to protect the voting rights of EU citizens too.
 

nw1

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Judging by how the majority Labour government of 1997-2010 never introduced PR, we almost need Labour to miss out on a majority in 2023/24 and be the largest party in a hung Parliament. Then with LibDem, SNP and potentially other minority support, they could introduce PR to Westminster. Admittedly the parties would need to agree what form of PR to introduce and constituency/regional boundaries.

To be fair that is a potential realistic outcome of the next election. An absolute majority for Labour is somewhat unlikely, but a bit of working together between Labour and the Lib Dems could be enough to swing a number of southern seats towards the Lib Dems. Also in the north and Wales I suspect some of the less-socially-conservative, more cosmopolitan 'red wall' seats (and Wales in general, where I get the impression there is more of an inherent distrust of the Tories) will probably swing back to Labour.

On recent Welsh Senedd results for instance, together with the tiny Tory majorities in many cases, I can see a lot of North East Wales seats swinging back to Labour. On the other hand, I get the impression the Midlands will be more difficult for Labour, as a region it seems to have swung rightwards more than any other (with apologies to those in the Midlands who did not vote Tory!)
 

edwin_m

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To be fair that is a potential realistic outcome of the next election. An absolute majority for Labour is somewhat unlikely, but a bit of working together between Labour and the Lib Dems could be enough to swing a number of southern seats towards the Lib Dems. Also in the north and Wales I suspect some of the less-socially-conservative, more cosmopolitan 'red wall' seats (and Wales in general, where I get the impression there is more of an inherent distrust of the Tories) will probably swing back to Labour.

On recent Welsh Senedd results for instance, together with the tiny Tory majorities in many cases, I can see a lot of North East Wales seats swinging back to Labour. On the other hand, I get the impression the Midlands will be more difficult for Labour, as a region it seems to have swung rightwards more than any other (with apologies to those in the Midlands who did not vote Tory!)
Papers this weekend are suggesting that the cracks in the Tory internal coalition are really starting to show, with what pleases the southerners (cutting HS2 to reduce spending) dismaying the red wall and what pleases the old guard (Paterson) dismaying the newcomers. A plan rail in the North that actually has quite a few good points has come across as a huge betrayal, probably because it was over-promised previously and up until a few weeks ago.

I think the Midlands is a mixed bag. For a Conservative, Andy Street in the west is probably about as far from Johnson as you can get, and unlike the hot air and bluster elsewhere is quietly getting on with improving the rail network. Whether that translates into Tory support in the next Westminster election could be another matter. In the east I wonder if the Tory success in places like Mansfield has anything to do with the long memories of the miners' strike, where most of the local coalfield kept working (didn't stop the Tories closing the pits 10 years later though!), and Corbyn may have brought back memories of Scargill. Now Corbyn has gone and the wheels are coming off Brexit, maybe that isn't so solid either.
 

Sm5

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If you didnt think we were run by a clown before, I highly reccomend looking up Boris’s keynote speech to the CBI today.

I dont usually go on for this sort of stuff, but the 2 mins you see on TV is just the highlight..

it starts about 4 minutes in giving his backside a good old scratch mid speech.

then It goes On..Quotes include:

“lenin says the USSR was communism and electrification.” And then admits quoting Lenin in the CBI probably isnt the right place.
“Peppa Pig world is my kind of place”
”it has safer streets” and ”invests in new technology”
“and beeching closed the railways earlier this century or a long time ago”
”test driving the first Tesla”.. “but it broke down on the motorway”.. whilst promoting electric cars..

its pretty mundane Boris waffle until 10 minutes, then he realises he didnt prepare his notes and spent the next 10 minutes in a combination of waffle and talking “insert your own 4 letter word”, as thats clearly what he was doing too.

he created a new word for the english languge today… “Funkapolitan” .. a place full of bars, restaurants and cafes.. ( Battersea Power Station).

Interesting on electrification of railways he links Manchester to Leeds with Beeching reversals (Admittedly he was juggling three sheets to the wind when he said this, and was trying to refind his que whilst still talking).

whats worse is he left the link on his own twitter feed for anyone to see…


he’s clearly a chimp that doesnt give a monkeys.

This is the best of Boris, since the old Russian Boris of the 1990’s.

As for keynotes, it compares to ex-Air Traffic controller‘s keynote lines of
”What goes up must come down, and if it goes wrong its your word against the dead guys”.
 
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brad465

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Two points of view came to mind with that speech:

1) Eton clearly isn't value for money if it's producing a PM who resorts to child cartoon characters in his speeches (remember Kermit the Frog as well).
2) Much of this is likely to be a dead cat for the Health bill currently being debated in Parliament, which is believed to be creating the conditions to facilitate further privatisation of the NHS.
 

DynamicSpirit

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If you didnt think we were run by a clown before, I highly reccomend looking up Boris’s keynote speech to the CBI today.

I dont usually go on for this sort of stuff, but the 2 mins you see on TV is just the highlight..

it starts about 4 minutes in giving his backside a good old scratch mid speech.

then It goes On..Quotes include:

“lenin says success of the USSR was Power and Electricity.” And then admits quoting Lenin in the CBI probably isnt the right place.
“Peppa Pig world is my kind of place”
”it has safer streets” and ”invests in new technology”
“and beeching closed the railways in the 1980’s70’s or sometime a long time ago”
”test driving the first Tesla”.. “but it broke down on the motorway”.. whilst promoting electric cars..

its pretty mundane Boris waffle until 10 minutes, then he realises he didnt prepare his notes and spent the next 10 minutes in a combination of waffle and talking “insert your own 4 letter word”, as thats clearly what he was doing too.

whats worse is he left the link on his own twitter feed for anyone to see…


he’s clearly a chimp that doesnt give a monkeys.

This is the best of Boris, since the old Russian Boris of the 1990’s.

When will it all go wrong for the tories ?…
When the audience stops laughing and realise this guy actually thinks he is serious.
Thanks for the link. I followed your recommendation and started watching, and had a completely different impression. Up to 14 minutes so far - well over halfway through the speech - and so far it's all very sensible stuff about the power of innovation, and the advantages of developing green technology before anyone else does so we get a competitive advantage. Yes it's got a sprinkling of the usual Boris bad jokes and puns in it, but the core message seems perfectly fine. In fact I'm rather liking how much emphasis he's putting on decarbonising. (Of course, I know you can justifiably question whether the Government are doing enough to match the rhetoric)

Are you sure you're not just picking isolated quotes and jokes out of context in order to give a misleading impression?

EDIT: Just hit the point at 18 minutes where he lost his page in his notes. Somewhat amusing/embarrassing to watch, but still doesn't detract from the main message.
 
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AlterEgo

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Johnson's speech was...not great, but the impact seemed very overblown. "Downing Street insider" being quoted as saying it was a shambles is probably an indication not all is well in the Tory camp and that's likely all we can draw out of the news so far.
 

brad465

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Thanks for the link. I followed your recommendation and started watching, and had a completely different impression. Up to 14 minutes so far - well over halfway through the speech - and so far it's all very sensible stuff about the power of innovation, and the advantages of developing green technology before anyone else does so we get a competitive advantage. Yes it's got a sprinkling of the usual Boris bad jokes and puns in it, but the core message seems perfectly fine. In fact I'm rather liking how much emphasis he's putting on decarbonising. (Of course, I know you can justifiably question whether the Government are doing enough to match the rhetoric)

Are you sure you're not just picking isolated quotes and jokes out of context in order to give a misleading impression?
Try this report if you don't like cherry picking, which includes two different Downing Street sources with contradicting views on how it went, one saying it was "shambolic", and another pointing the CBI head liking his commitment to work with private sector:


Boris Johnson has been criticised after he lost his place in a speech to British businesses leaders and referred to the children's cartoon Peppa Pig.

Speaking to the CBI conference, the PM also quoted Lenin and performed an impression of a car.

Halting his speech led to an awkward 21 seconds of apologies and paper shuffling from the Tory leader.

Labour's shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, called the speech "shambolic".

She added: "No one was laughing, because the joke's not funny anymore."
A senior Downing Street source told the BBC: "Business was really looking for leadership today and it was shambolic."

They added there was "a lot of concern inside the building" about Mr Johnson.

"Cabinet needs to wake up and demand serious changes otherwise it'll keep getting worse. If they don't insist, he just won't do anything about it."

A Downing Street spokesperson pointed out that CBI head Tony Danker had welcomed the PM's words on the private sector working with the government.

Mr Johnson's 25-minute speech to assembled business leaders focused on levelling up, but also took some awkward turns as the prime minister tried to fuel enthusiasm for his green industrial revolution.
After saying government "cannot fix everything" and that "the true driver of growth is not government but the energy and dynamism and originality of the private sector", Mr Johnson turned to CBI chief Mr Danker and said: "Yesterday I went, as we all must, to Peppa Pig World."
He asked the audience for a show of hands for who had been to the Hampshire attraction, and after saying "not enough", the PM continued.
"I was a bit hazy about what I would find at Peppa Pig World, but I loved it," he said.
"Peppa Pig World is very much my kind of place.
"It has very safe streets, discipline in schools, a heavy emphasis on mass transit systems I noticed, even if they are a bit stereotypical about Daddy Pig."
Mr Johnson added: "The real lesson for me going to Peppa Pig World... was about the power of UK creativity.
"Who would have believed a pig who looks like... a Picasso like hairdryer, a pig that was rejected by the BBC, would now be exported to 180 countries and theme parks both in America and China, as well as in the New Forest and be a business worth at least £6bn to this country and counting.
"I think that is pure genius don't you? No government in the world, no Whitehall civil servant, would have conceivably come up with Peppa."
Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey said: "Businesses are crying out for clarity. Instead, all they got was Boris Johnson rambling on about Peppa Pig.
"It is a perfect metaphor for Johnson's chaotic, incompetent government as it trashes our economy, but it is not worthy of a British prime minister."
To be fair, his rhetoric does make a change from when he was reported to have said "F**k business" in 2018.
 

nlogax

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I used to think Boris Johnson was indestructible as a politician. His performance as PM was inversely proportional to his and his party's ratings. Now, finally, it looks like people are cottoning on.
 

brad465

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This is perhaps the first true sign of the Tory Party starting to get concerned about Johnson: after his "shambolic" speech today, the FT are reporting news senior Tories are demanding Johnson's top team are shaken up:


Boris Johnson is facing calls from senior Tories to shake up his Downing Street team after a rambling speech at the CBI annual conference intensified concerns about policy missteps...
 

87 027

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There are similar articles in The Spectator (which BoJo used to edit)



 

DynamicSpirit

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Try this report if you don't like cherry picking, which includes two different Downing Street sources with contradicting views on how it went, one saying it was "shambolic", and another pointing the CBI head liking his commitment to work with private sector:


Ummm, the Labour Party saying the speech was shambolic? Yeah, because obviously a Labour Party spokesman is going to be completely objective, right!

Regarding Peppa the Pig, the fuller quote from Boris's speech makes it clear that he was using it as an example of how innovation in the apparently most unlikely areas can turn out to be of huge economic benefit.

BorisJohnson said:
"Who would have believed a pig who looks like... a Picasso like hairdryer, a pig that was rejected by the BBC, would now be exported to 180 countries and theme parks both in America and China, as well as in the New Forest and be a business worth at least £6bn to this country and counting.

Could you clarify exactly what is wrong with promoting innovation?

Also, digging around a bit from wikipedia.

Wikipedia said:
Peppa was used to promote the pre-2010 Labour government's Sure Start programme, which had the aim of "giving children the best possible start in life".[28] In April 2010, during the UK General Election campaign, E1 Entertainment said that Peppa would not attend the launch of the Labour Party's families manifesto "in the interests of avoiding any controversy or misunderstanding".

So... apparently it's all fine and dandy for Labour to use Peppa the Pig to promote stuff (and the article seems to hint that Labour even wanted to use Peppa for their manifesto launch!) but when the Tories do likewise, it's shambolic?
 

brad465

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Ummm, the Labour Party saying the speech was shambolic? Yeah, because obviously a Labour Party spokesman is going to be completely objective, right!

Regarding Peppa the Pig, the fuller quote from Boris's speech makes it clear that he was using it as an example of how innovation in the apparently most unlikely areas can turn out to be of huge economic benefit.
For goodness sake, I highlighted what was coming out of Downing Street, not what the Labour party were obviously going to say. You may like his speech, but it's clear from the above articles, especially the Spectator which one would think would support Johnson, that many of those who normally support him did not like it. If they think it's bad, chances are it was bad.

There's nothing wrong with saying to someone or a group you support something like, "I like you, but what you're doing is not good and I hope you apologise and improve/learn from this mistake. If you don't, I won't vote/support you at the next opportunity." This is how everyone, politician or common person, Tory or Labour or any other party, improves and becomes better, which helps everyone else and society as a whole improve. Denying mistakes and/or blatant ignorance/loyalty helps absolutely no-one, and goes a long way to describing why the whole country, and other divided countries like the US, is in the mess it's in.
 

DynamicSpirit

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For goodness sake, I highlighted what was coming out of Downing Street, not what the Labour party were obviously going to say. You may like his speech, but it's clear from the above articles, especially the Spectator which one would think would support Johnson, that many of those who normally support him did not like it. If they think it's bad, chances are it was bad.

There's nothing wrong with saying to someone or a group you support something like, "I like you, but what you're doing is not good and I hope you apologise and improve/learn from this mistake. If you don't, I won't vote/support you at the next opportunity." This is how everyone, politician or common person, Tory or Labour or any other party, improves and becomes better, which helps everyone else and society as a whole improve. Denying mistakes and/or blatant ignorance/loyalty helps absolutely no-one, and goes a long way to describing why the whole country, and other divided countries like the US, is in the mess it's in.

Now would you care to answer my question, Could you clarify exactly what is wrong with promoting innovation? If you could also explain why it's apparently OK for Labour to use Peppa the Pig but not for the Tories to do so, that would also be appreciated.

(For what it's worth I largely agree with @AlterEgo to the extent that the speech wasn't exactly brilliant. The delivery was poor in places. But the message about innovation and developing green technologies was very clear, and I think it's totally ridiculous the way people are drawing a couple of stumbles (and the fact that Boris does tend to pepper his speeches with unfunny jokes) out of all proportion and ignoring what the speech was about - that's the point of my posting here).
 

brad465

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Now would you care to answer my question, Could you clarify exactly what is wrong with promoting innovation? If you could also explain why it's apparently OK for Labour to use Peppa the Pig but not for the Tories to do so, that would also be appreciated.

(For what it's worth I largely agree with @AlterEgo to the extent that the speech wasn't exactly brilliant. The delivery was poor in places. But the message about innovation and developing green technologies was very clear, and I think it's totally ridiculous the way people are drawing a couple of stumbles (and the fact that Boris does tend to pepper his speeches with unfunny jokes) out of all proportion and ignoring what the speech was about - that's the point of my posting here).
Okay, yes of course innovation promotion is good, but what would also be good is some concrete plans to how the innovation will be delivered, with a published budget, staffing, minister responsible, schedule, deadline, accurate definition, and key performance indicators. Without these, his announcements are not policies, more like a wish list (really the media should be doing a better job than they are to flush these out of Johnson).

As for Labour using Peppa Pig in the past, it's possible because this was 11 years ago, where they immediately lost a general election afterwards and have had 3 different party leaders since then, that it's not as comparable an example. The fact they lost that election proves you are correct that it isn't okay, but that they have already received their reckoning for using the character, and AFAIK haven't repeated this in subsequent campaigns. If Starmer's lot uses Peppa Pig then I think you're argument would be much stronger, but at the same time if Starmer oversaw Peppa Pig being used in future, I might have a heart attack because that is way out of character with his personality.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Okay, yes of course innovation promotion is good, but what would also be good is some concrete plans to how the innovation will be delivered, with a published budget, staffing, minister responsible, schedule, deadline, accurate definition, and key performance indicators. Without these, his announcements are not policies, more like a wish list (really the media should be doing a better job than they are to flush these out of Johnson).

As for Labour using Peppa Pig in the past, it's possible because this was 11 years ago, where they immediately lost a general election afterwards and have had 3 different party leaders since then, that it's not as comparable an example. The fact they lost that election proves you are correct that it isn't okay, but that they have already received their reckoning for using the character, and AFAIK haven't repeated this in subsequent campaigns. If Starmer's lot uses Peppa Pig then I think you're argument would be much stronger, but at the same time if Starmer oversaw Peppa Pig being used in future, I might have a heart attack because that is way out of character with his personality.

Thanks for the answers. That sounds rather more reasonable. FWIW I don't think the purpose of the speech was to provide detailed policy. And I can't see that Labour losing the 2010 general election had anything to do with Peppa the Pig - that was arguably more to do with perceptions of Gordon Brown's character and the fallout from the MPs expenses scandal, which was the huge issue at the time. I think you're right that it would be totally out of character for Keir Starmer to use something like Peppa the Pig as an example, but I'd also say that Labour here is basically playing politics with something that really doesn't matter.

Back to the topic of the thread, when will it go wrong for the Tories, I wonder if this is potentially the biggest thing that could go wrong for them: Nigel Farage writing in the Telegraph that he is considering returning to frontline politics. link

This quote is talking about migrants:

NigelFarage said:
When will Boris Johnson wake up to the reality of looming disaster? Why is he content to put the rights of people who have no link to this country above the safety of his own people? Who is he trying to please? Politically, he is playing an appalling hand because by refusing to tackle this issue, he is alienating his own natural supporters and the Red Wall voters who lent him their vote in 2019. But more importantly still, in security terms he is putting his own people in jeopardy. He needs to get his head out of the clouds and realise that he is presiding over the systematic importation of people, some of whom hate us and our way of life. I dread to think what the consequences of this could be.

Over the last few weeks, I have been approached by several high-ranking donors asking me if I am considering getting back into the political arena. My gut instinct is not to do so, but I will have to give it some serious thought.

(Before anyone asks, I think Nigel Farage's remarks are appalling scaremongering, but they could be electoral dynamite)
 

edwin_m

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The irony being that Brexit has almost totally prevented the return of immigrants to the EU countries they passed through, and this has just encouraged the immigrants and people smugglers to make more efforts to get into the UK.
 

birchesgreen

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Farage has frequently hinted he will return, i highly suspect its just talk to keep him in the public eye.

As for The Johnson its clear the knives, if not yet out, are being sharpened. New PM next year probably.
 

jon0844

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Nigel obviously wants back in to politics, but despite his popularity on right wing media he doesn't stand a chance - so he pretends he may or may not do something to give him a get out. But I'd say he needs the money, given how his other business ventures (dodgy financial newsletters or saying 'up the RA' for people who give him cash) aren't working out.

Meanwhile Boris is bumbling along and when he loses his papers he can't even do jokes well. He does them to buy time and deflect attention and I agree with above comments that he talks like he's giving a wish list - not as someone who can make anything actually happen. The party conference one was even more embarrassing.
 

birchesgreen

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Yes being a shock jock is a bit too much like work compared to what he used to do as an MEP to earn his coin. Maybe he'll return to politics to push for a return to the EU :lol:
 

Typhoon

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Farage has frequently hinted he will return, i highly suspect its just talk to keep him in the public eye.

As for The Johnson its clear the knives, if not yet out, are being sharpened. New PM next year probably.
I think that is the issue; when I heard descriptions of the CBI interview, I went online to find, not the whole thing, too long, but some sort of summary. I ignored media which would have an 'anti' bias so chose the Daily Mail. Hopefully they have just chosen the embarrassing parts because it didn't look good. However, I expected something a bit more sympathetic from a right of centre newspaper.

Similarly on both 'Paterson', tax rises and social care, Conservative MPs appear to have had no difficulty in speaking out against their government. Looking at the list from yesterday, I notice that a significant number who voted against or abstained were from the ERG. Now, although they are not whipped to do so, they often vote similarly. Even with a large majority, if a sizeable cohort doesn't support them, they may struggle to get some business through the House. This can be dismissed for governments with majorities in the teens, but for those with large majorities it is a rebellion and rebellions can be contagious. Johnson needs some strokes of luck (bad weather in the channel, big fall in Covid cases, a big win in a sporting event - anything). Some of the events are out of his hands but a lot are not!
 

nw1

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Johnson has lost all right to be the leader of the party of business since he implemented the joke that was Brexit, something which is just causing us endless difficulties. Adding red tape and bureaucracy in dealing with our closest neighbours is hardly going to do British business much good, is it?

And as for all that 'mock green' rubbish, well if they were really concerned about green issues, this government would not be telling the railways they need to cut costs for perhaps many years. It's all complete fake and I hope people now see the hypocrisy. The government are desperately trying to appeal to the political centre by pretending to be green. A real green government would support the railways and bring back pre-Covid services, not leave them in a watered-down state for several years. Public transport would be seen as a priority, not an inconvenience.

The Conservative Party only cares about the Conservative Party. Always has, always will. It has gained many 'red wall' seats, by that measure it doubtless sees itself as a success despite the endless run of cock-ups and corruption.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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And as for all that 'mock green' rubbish, well if they were really concerned about green issues, this government would not be telling the railways they need to cut costs for perhaps many years.

Why not? It's very obvious that railway infrastructure is incredibly expensive, as is running the railways! It's perfectly possible to at the same time (a) want to support an industry, and (b) expect that industry to be run as efficiently as possible.

FWIW I don't think it's 'mock' at all. The reality rather appears to be that there is a group of people (including Johnson) who are very genuinely concerned about green issues and who want to prioritise them, and there are others in the Tory party who disagree, and who are pretty irritated at the Government for publicizing Green issues so much, resulting in a bit of a power struggle. I suspect that may be in part what is really behind some of the criticism from the right of Boris's CBI speech - almost certainly, some people in the Tories don't like how much he was pushing the green agenda.

It's all complete fake and I hope people now see the hypocrisy. The government are desperately trying to appeal to the political centre by pretending to be green. A real green government would support the railways and bring back pre-Covid services, not leave them in a watered-down state for several years. Public transport would be seen as a priority, not an inconvenience.

This is probably not the appropriate thread to start discussing issues to do with the railways. But suffice to say - the UK Government has just opened the Okehampton line for regular services. We are currently building a small little line from London to Birmingham, Crewe and Manchester, another one across London from Paddington to Abbey Wood/Stratford, another from Oxford to Bletchley, another one to Ashington, and yet another one to Portishead. At the same time, the Government has just instructed NR to look into building new lines from Birmingham to East Midlands Parkway and Liverpool to just west of Huddersfield. Is there any other time in living memory when so many new lines were being built or planned at the same time? And this just after the Government has thrown £billions at the railways to keep them running during a year when there were almost no passengers! There is much to criticise about the current Government, but I really don't understand how you can imply they are not supporting the railways.
 

nlogax

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Besides Johnson as PM, it'll continue to go wrong for the Tories as long as they continue to stick the likes of Nadine Dorries in senior roles. I'm watching her answer questions in an ongoing DCMS committee hearing. Not sure if it's supposed to be a bonus episode of The Thick of It but here we are.
 
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