Keir Starmer and the Labour Party

[Typhoon]

Preaching to the choir. Not sure Starmer's got the fire Kinnock had in calling out the militant left though.

They could do a lot worse than replay that speech at the Conference, much of what was said then is as true now as it was then. Such as:

It is essential that we don't make false promises.

Note well, Mr McDonald.

Yep. I don’t think many of the general public could give a monkeys about Labour at the moment and probably couldn’t name many of the opposition front bench.

No probably about it, I can't name that many and I'm actually interested in politics. I think it is a safe bet that if you showed members of the general public a picture of the shadow cabinet and asked them who was in it (not even putting names to faces) I reckon that the number who could recognise a quarter would be in single figures percentage-wise. Even Ashworth seems to have gone to ground. They might get Rayner and Milliband.

Starmer does actually come out pretty well when you hear him interviewed in a relaxed setting, but he just can’t get that side of himself across and unfortunately I think that’s what will do for him in the end - He’s just a bit wooden… That shouldn’t matter of course but we live in a world where it actually does.

It is a difficult balancing act, As Kinnock found out, voters don't take to the campaigning leader in the same way that they did in, say, the sixties when Wilson could draw a crowd, but it can whip up and enthuse a conference, they prefer the cosy chat approach. Some people can do both, usually by adapting their approach; Blair didn't really rant, he seemed reasoned on the podium; Wilson was able to use a 'pipe-and-slippers' approach when talking on the TV; Johnson and Heseltine are naturals in that they fairly (or very) unorthodox.
You are right, Starmer does not see to be able to relax. Unfortunately he does not seem to do humour. He comes across as what he is, a lawyer.

 

[brad465]

In light of today's news about Southeastern being nationalised, maybe things went wrong for Labour with their image and selling capability, because the way things are going all their policies in 2019 will be getting implemented under the Tories

 

[kristiang85]

This is almost parody. I actually thought it was at first, but nope it's deadly serious. And they wonder why their traditional heartlands are draining in support.

 

[Logan Carroll]

When they became complicit in a war crime during the Iraq War.

 

[brad465]

When they became complicit in a war crime during the Iraq War.

I don't think it's so much that, given the Republicans have managed to regain power in the various channels in the US when they oversaw it, I think the issue is Labour haven't fully united in how to shake it off. The hard left in the party loathe Blair more than non-Labour folk do (or at least with their vocal ness that's what it seems), with Iraq the main reason, the rest of the party haven't sought to present means of showing they've moved on from that.

 

[Harold Hill]

When people looked at Cuba and then Venezuela

 

[XAM2175]

When they became complicit in a war crime during the Iraq War.

Let's not forget that 89% of Conservative MPs also voted in favour of invasion; 146 aye, 2 no, and 17 abstentions. Given that 84 Labour MPs dissented and a further 69 abstained, the Tory votes were instrumental in passing the bill.

 

[richa2002]

This is almost parody. I actually thought it was at first, but nope it's deadly serious. And they wonder why their traditional heartlands are draining in support.

It's a sign of the times that blatant sexism/racism goes unquestioned. Terrible.

 

[NorthKent1989]

This is almost parody. I actually thought it was at first, but nope it's deadly serious. And they wonder why their traditional heartlands are draining in support.

Wants inclusivity but doesn’t want White men putting their hands up?

Labour quite frankly deserved to be binned they are a racist party, I say this as a mixed race male with whiteness making 50% of me, I don’t feel comfortable that half my family should be made to feel like foreigners in their own country.

Inagine the outcry if he said “This is a dark room and I can’t see many people there”

Labour don’t deserve to see inside number ten until they drop this anti white, woke ideology.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is almost parody. I actually thought it was at first, but nope it's deadly serious. And they wonder why their traditional heartlands are draining in support.

This is essentially the reverse of this sketch, only less funny.

Labour are a total shower. I wouldn’t vote for any of the main parties if my life depended on it.

 

[Purple Orange]

Brilliant speech from Starmer today. Policies and direction, mixed with a signal of what a competent PM looks like.

 

[brad465]

Brilliant speech from Starmer today. Policies and direction, mixed with a signal of what a competent PM looks like.

"My dad was a toolmaker, and in a way so was Boris Johnson’s"

(Yes, Starmer actually said that this afternoon)

 

[ABB125]

"My dad was a toolmaker, and in a way so was Boris Johnson’s"

(Yes, Starmer actually said that this afternoon)

I'm sure that's very funny, but I don't know enough about the Johnson family to ascertain what it is. Could you enlighten me? Thanks

 

[DarloRich]

Brilliant speech from Starmer today. Policies and direction, mixed with a signal of what a competent PM looks like.

A good speech. The Trots & Corbyn fanboys managed to make themselves look silly AND give Starmer his strapline for media broadcasts. Well done chaps. Off you trot.

"My dad was a toolmaker, and in a way so was Boris Johnson’s"

(Yes, Starmer actually said that this afternoon)

I don't think I would have said it but it was a good cheap shot. Liked it.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure that's very funny, but I don't know enough about the Johnson family to ascertain what it is. Could you enlighten me? Thanks

He's calling Boris a tool. And as his father made him his father is therefore a sort of tool maker

 

[Typhoon]

Wants inclusivity but doesn’t want White men putting their hands up?

Also, and I may have missed something here, I thought that the attendees were delegates, representing a constituency, socialist organisation, union (branch?/ region?). There is no reason to believe that the delegate represents the membership by gender or ethnicity. So a 'white, male hand' may be speaking on behalf of a very ethnically diverse area, with a predominantly female membership, charged with making a particular point on behalf of the whole membership. Similarly a 'female, black hand' might represent a constituency in a predominantly 'white' area. If he was looking for someone from a different part of the country to those that have spoken, I would have some sympathy.

"My dad was a toolmaker, and in a way so was Boris Johnson’s"

(Yes, Starmer actually said that this afternoon)

Yes. He needs to introduce more humour into his speeches and interviews, I just wish I thought that he'd come up with it. Far better than 'scum'! (I can't speak from experience but I would have thought it is the sort of joke that will be repeated in some of the constituencies that turned blue last time).

 

[ABB125]

He's calling Boris a tool. And as his father made him his father is therefore a sort of tool maker

Ah, I see, thanks.

 

[thenorthern]

Starmer seemed quite realistic with his speech today. He knows that the Conservatives are doing something right as they are in government and Labour isn't.

He also seemed to sound tough on crime and tough on criminals which was a popular policy that got Labour elected in 1997.

 

[ainsworth74]

He also seemed to sound tough on crime and tough on criminals which was a popular policy that got Labour elected in 1997.

It remains infuriating that the Tories have done extraordinary damage to our criminal justice system, all parts thereof, and yet all they seem to need to do is whip up some BS headline in the Mail et al about how they're going to "crack down x by creating tougher sentences" and most seem to buy that somehow they're therefore doing a good job.

Meanwhile there are fewer police, there are fewer solved cases, forensics and other services are a mess, the few courts that are actually open due to funding cuts are stuffed full and cases are being dealt with years after the offence, the innocent have their lives ruined and if they don't get legal aid (which they probably won't) also get left with the bill as their claim for costs is capped, the guilty get stuffed into dangerous prisons with little hope of rehabilitation, the wrongly convicted get denied compensation when their convictions are overturned. But yeah the Tories are "tough on crime". Who the hell can believe such tripe with even a cursory examination of the state of our criminal justice system?

 

[brad465]

Starmer seemed quite realistic with his speech today. He knows that the Conservatives are doing something right as they are in government and Labour isn't.

He also seemed to sound tough on crime and tough on criminals which was a popular policy that got Labour elected in 1997.

Starmer also seems to be the first Labour leader to actually praise the party's achievements in Government from 1997-2010.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Personally I still think Labour have an uphill battle, it’s just words with them, I don’t trust them anymore than I trust the Tories and neither will get my vote in 2024.

Starmer still doesn’t cut it as a potential leader of this country.

 

[DarloRich]

Starmer still doesn’t cut it as a potential leader of this country.

aye aye - and Johnson does?

and of course Labour have an uphill battle - they have to overturn an 8p seat majority that Corbyn won for the Tories.

It remains infuriating that the Tories have done extraordinary damage to our criminal justice system, all parts thereof, and yet all they seem to need to do is whip up some BS headline in the Mail et al about how they're going to "crack down x by creating tougher sentences" and most seem to buy that somehow they're therefore doing a good job.

Meanwhile there are fewer police, there are fewer solved cases, forensics and other services are a mess, the few courts that are actually open due to funding cuts are stuffed full and cases are being dealt with years after the offence, the innocent have their lives ruined and if they don't get legal aid (which they probably won't) also get left with the bill as their claim for costs is capped, the guilty get stuffed into dangerous prisons with little hope of rehabilitation, the wrongly convicted get denied compensation when their convictions are overturned. But yeah the Tories are "tough on crime". Who the hell can believe such tripe with even a cursory examination of the state of our criminal justice system?

The state the Tories have put the criminal justice system in is scandalous - yet clown lap up the latest headline. Read the Secret Barrister books and tweets. It is worse than we think!

 

[ABB125]

they have to overturn an 8p seat majority that Corbyn won for the Tories.

Surely the seats in Parliament cost a bit more than 8p...?

 

[NorthKent1989]

aye aye - and Johnson does?

I’m not disputing that, Johnson is utterly useless but replacing him with Starmer won’t save this country either,

 

[Purple Orange]

Surely the seats in Parliament cost a bit more than 8p...?

An 80 seat majority is a lot, but it requires the very small majorities in 40 seats to flip. There are a significant number of Tory MPs sitting on very small majorities. A 1% swing away from the Tories would result in 14 seats being lost; a 2% swing loses them 26 seats; a 3% swing loses them 40 seats (and their majority); a 4% swing loses them 56 seats; a 5% swing loses them 70 seats.

 

[alex397]

The state the Tories have put the criminal justice system in is scandalous - yet clown lap up the latest headline. Read the Secret Barrister books and tweets. It is worse than we think!

I do wonder if the majority of the UK population are aware of this, or ever will be.

 

[SuperNova]

I do wonder if the majority of the UK population are aware of this, or ever will be.

If it wasn't for the Secret barrister and a few other lawyers on Twitter, I wouldn't. Rape cases taking upwards of 4 years for prosecution is scandalous.

 

[Typhoon]

If it wasn't for the Secret barrister and a few other lawyers on Twitter, I wouldn't. Rape cases taking upwards of 4 years for prosecution is scandalous.

And now Raab (who clearly didn't want the job) is in charge. Lammy is his shadow, time to get stuck in, lad!

 

[JamesT]

And now Raab (who clearly didn't want the job) is in charge. Lammy is his shadow, time to get stuck in, lad!

David "I haven't seen a policeman" Lammy? https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...ews-Met-Police-London-crime-latest-Sadiq-Khan
When that's the calibre of the opposition it makes the government look almost competent.

 

[dk1]

It was like a trip down memory lane yesterday. I feel I know the way round his fathers shed now.