Where is the North-South divide?

[peterblue]

From this topic: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...wr-mobile-ticket-for-break-of-journey.218865/

For me (I'm including the midlands), broadly anything south of Worcester, Northampton or Peterborough is 'the south' and anything north of Stoke or Nottingham is 'the north'. Anything in between is the midlands.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sheffield is the start of the North. Proper North is north of York.

 

[Merseysider]

For me, I’d say once you’ve got to around Chester / Macclesfield / Sheffield / Grimsby you’re in the North, though whenever I pass Stoke on the train up it does feel like I’ve escaped the South.

Cheltenham / Banbury / Northampton feels ‘south’ to me.

Everything inbetween is no-man’s land

 

[Kilopylae]

Gloucester, Cheltenham, Kettering, Peterborough and Kings Lynn are all on the northern edge of the South. Birmingham and Leicestershire are the North; with Dudley, Stoke and Newcastle it's undeniable.

The Midlands do exist - the North/South divide just runs through them. Milton Keynes is both South and Midlands; Newcastle is both North and Midlands. I'd say the Midlands stretch from about Stoke-on-Trent at the top to Oxford at the bottom.

Wales doesn't count. I think Hereford might be honorary Wales, because it always feels like the South even though it's north of the Bristol Channel/the Wash line that works so well for almost everywhere else.

 

[Merseysider]

Newcastle is both North and Midlands

Newcastle under Lyme, right?

 

[Kilopylae]

Yea

 

[Iskra]

The North/Midlands boundary, I place at Chesterfield.

I’d say the South probably starts around Northampton/Peterborough but I’m less interested in that boundary!

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

In my mind, anywhere that was ever part of the Kingdom of Northumbria, can be called The North, anywhere that was in Mercia can be called The Midlands, and anywhere in that was ever in Wessex can be called The West, anywhere in East Anglia is the East, and Essex, Sussex lot is the South-East.

There is no North/South Divide, it's just a slur that implies everyone in the North is worse off than everyone in the South, when it's not true. You get bigger divides locally going from a terraced street to a street with manors within a mile in most towns, the differences on a region basis are less drastic.

In (Anglican) church matters, England is divided into two provinces, York and Canterbury, that is probably the only official division of England into a North and South.

 

[Djgr]

Of course if you mean North/South divide of the United Kingdom then even cities such as Liverpool are in the South!

 

[PeterC]

I always liked George Orwell's pre-war definition which was the point where, as an old Etonian, people thought of his accent simply as "southern" rather than "posh".

 

[Merseysider]

cities such as Liverpool are in the South!

Don’t you dare

 

[Butts]

If we are talking about England surely the real North is Cumbria and Northumberland not Yorkshire, Lancashire etc ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If we are talking about England surely the real North is Cumbria and Northumberland not Yorkshire, Lancashire etc ?

Suppose it depends on where you are from. If you're located on the Dorset coast, then for you somewhere like Bristol is probably the Far North!

 

[Merseysider]

If we are talking about England surely the real North is Cumbria and Northumberland not Yorkshire, Lancashire etc ?

I think you’re onto something there... if I’m in Carlisle I’m “up” in Carlisle... if I’m in Leeds I’m “over” in Leeds

Newcastle definitely has a more “northern” feel to it than Preston, for example.

 

[Ediswan]

According to some A1(M) signs, anywhere north of Hatfield is 'The NORTH'. Anywhere south of Leeds is 'The SOUTH'.

 

[Mojo]

I think the line goes from The Wash over to the River Severn at Tewksbury. In other words, almost what I said in 2016, but Worcester has been demoted.

I think it's a line from The Wash that runs north of Peterborough, but then south of Corby, between Coventry & Leamington Spa, south of Stratford (upon Avon), and then north of Worcester and then north of Hereford to the Welsh "border."

 

[peri]

A line from the Humber to the Mersey divides the North from the Midlands and a line from the Wash to the Severn shows where the South begins.

 

[Gloster]

Chirk to the mouth of the River Welland.

 

[Dr Hoo]

In my mind, anywhere that was ever part of the Kingdom of Northumbria, can be called The North, anywhere that was in Mercia can be called The Midlands, and anywhere in that was ever in Wessex can be called The West, anywhere in East Anglia is the East, and Essex, Sussex lot is the South-East.

There is no North/South Divide, it's just a slur that implies everyone in the North is worse off than everyone in the South, when it's not true. You get bigger divides locally going from a terraced street to a street with manors within a mile in most towns, the differences on a region basis are less drastic.

In (Anglican) church matters, England is divided into two provinces, York and Canterbury, that is probably the only official division of England into a North and South.

This is a good call. Apparently it used to be the case, near Gleadless, then outside Sheffield, I understand, you could stand astride the tiny Shire Brook with one foot in Yorkshire and one in Derbyshire; one foot in Northumbria and one foot in Mercia; one foot in the ecclesiastical province of Canterbury and one foot in the province of York; and thus one foot in the North and one foot in the South.

 

[181]

This Jay Foreman video has exactly the same title as the thread (apart from punctuation) and may be of interest.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

This is a good call. Apparently it used to be the case, near Gleadless, then outside Sheffield, I understand, you could stand astride the tiny Shire Brook with one foot in Yorkshire and one in Derbyshire; one foot in Northumbria and one foot in Mercia; one foot in the ecclesiastical province of Canterbury and one foot in the province of York; and thus one foot in the North and one foot in the South.

It still does mark the province and county boundaries. The current lieutenancies (called Ceremonial Counties by Wikipedia), and county council areas have never abolished the older counties in any way and the government has confirmed their continued legal existence, but the other areas using the name county has caused much confusion with people arguing whether Warrington is in Lancashire or Cheshire, or if Romford is in Essex or not.

Anyway, realised no one mentioned the railway North-South divide, anywhere Northern Trains run is the North, the rest could be called the South .

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I've always drawn the line at around Stoke-on-Trent - anything north of it is "The North", and anything south of it is "The South".

As for "The Midlands", I've always considered that to just be some large, loosely defined blob containing Birmingham, Leicester, Nottingham and everywhere in between.

 

[daodao]

anywhere that was in Mercia can be called The Midlands

So where is Cheshire? It is south of the River Mersey and was part of Mercia, and the south of the county has close links with the North Midlands (Stoke). However, the development of Manchester and Liverpool has meant that its northern parts have effectively been linked socio-economically to historic Lancashire and become part of Northern England.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So where is Cheshire? It is south of the River Mersey and was part of Mercia, and the south of the county has close links with the North Midlands (Stoke). However, the development of Manchester and Liverpool has meant that its northern parts have effectively been linked socio-economically to historic Lancashire and become part of Northern England.

Cheshire and Derbyshire are curates eggs in that respect and a microcosm of the question. At their northerly extremes, they are very northern but more southerly, they feel Midlands.

As an exiled Northerner, I always go off motorway service areas for such questions So the west/south west starts at Strensham or Membury, and as for the North, it's Woodall on the M1 and Knutsford on the M6. When heading North to see the fam, I only really feel that I'm in the North once I'm hitting South Yorkshire though appreciate that the scenery of Kiveton Park (a landscaped former colliery) is no different from Markham Vale (a landscaped former colliery) further south!

 

[DarloRich]

anything north of Stoke or Nottingham is 'the north'.

Chester / Macclesfield / Sheffield / Grimsby

Birmingham and Leicestershire are the North; with Dudley, Stoke and Newcastle it's undeniable.

The Wash over to the River Severn at Tewksbury.

I've always drawn the line at around Stoke-on-Trent - anything north of it is "The North"

None of these places are in the north. The only ones open for discussion are Sheffield and Grimsby. @AlterEgo has it just about right. The real north is between the Tees and the Tweed.

Grimsby certainly feels northern!

 

[SargeNpton]

The London-centric view of the world was always that "The north starts at Watford".

 

[43096]

I did once hear of a football match between (I think) Dover and Woking and the Dover fans were chanting “You dirty northern b*****ds”!

 

[nlogax]

The London-centric view of the world was always that "The north starts at Watford".

Watford Gap, not Watford itself.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Birmingham. Above there is the north, below is the south and Brum itself is in no mans land!

 

[185143]

Of course in Scotland, everything South of the border is referred to as "Down South". Just to put yet another perspective on this ever controversial discussion!