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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

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TravelDream

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I am not sure when this announcement will be. There's no 5pm briefing I think.

Most definitely, and in general the media are very poor at communicating this. No point eg Republic of Ireland being on the green list, (ie people can get back into GB without issue) if they aren't allowed in in the first place (without PCR tests and 10-day isolation on arrival).

To be fair, I think a lot of the media has when talking about the green list.
Australia, NZ, Singapore and others don't allow British tourists in at all which made their inclusion pointless.
I think the only country that did initially was Iceland, but even that was with restrictions. Overseas territory Gibraltar is also fairly popular for Brits. And that was it.
 
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Darandio

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Shapps has just tweeted the new list and it's pretty underwhelming. Once the government site is updated properly i'll post it, assuming nobody beats me.
 

duncanp

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According to The Telegraph.

So not much to write home about.

And as soon as people have booked holidays to Ibiza and Majorca..., no doubt they will be added to the amber list again.



The countries added to the green list​

  • Malta

The countries added to the green "watch" list​

  • Anguilla
  • Antigua and Barbuda
  • Balearic Islands
  • Barbados
  • British Antarctic territory
  • British Virgin Islands
  • Cayman Islands
  • Dominica
  • Grenada
  • Madeira
  • Montserrat
  • Pitcairn Islands
  • Turks and Caicos


The countries moved from the green list to the green "watch" list​

  • Israel and Jerusalem


The countries added to the red list​

  • Uganda
  • Tunisia
  • Eritrea
  • Haiti
  • Dominican Republic
  • Mongolia
 
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kristiang85

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Great, time to book my summer holiday to the British Antarctic Territory (in their winter).

On a more serious note, this is the death knell to the hopes of having my friends from Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, Dubai and Canada over for my wedding next month. Very slim hopes, granted, but I still thought there'd be something good in there. I'm a little sad about that.
 

TravelDream

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It could have been worse.
Majorca, Menorca, Ibiza, Malta as well as some Caribbean islands is a lot better than what was before.

The question still is who will let us in.
 

Richard Scott

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So they are kicking the can down the road as usual. They seem to be throwing the international travel industry under a bus. :(
I really am at a loss to even try to understand the thinking of this government. Do they really think that everyone will spend all their money in Britain and we can carry on without international tourism? It may not be the biggest industry in Britain but it still employs lots of people. All based on a feeble excuse about variants and people being at risk. If they really looked at the science they'd realise that's total rubbish.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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JBC data is all suppressed as i expected otherwise there would be a clamour for why a number of other countries haven't been added. This is a tantamount to a zero covid policy but they don't say so.
 

TravelDream

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So they are kicking the can down the road as usual. They seem to be throwing the international travel industry under a bus. :(

Not really. All of the leaks to the press said that they were considering it to begin late July/ August and there were many things that needed to be ironed out.
e.g. Do you accept foreign vaccinations and how do you prove it? Paper certificates can easily be forged.
 

daodao

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The question still is who will let us in.
The most powerful politician in the EU has recommended that all UK visitors to the EU are quarantined, and there is a very good case for this given that the UK has much higher infection rates than most of the EU at present, and most UK cases are now due to the more highly infectious Delta variant. It is in the EU's interest to adopt this recommendation and make it binding on all EU member states for at least 3 months. British tourists should be made as welcome in the EU as planes from Belarus. The EU should also insist on restrictions for travel across the North Channel, given the porous border between the 6 counties and the rest of Ireland.
 

Butts

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The most powerful politician in the EU has recommended that all UK visitors to the EU are quarantined, and there is a very good case for this given that the UK has much higher infection rates than most of the EU at present, and most UK cases are now due to the more highly infectious Delta variant. It is in the EU's interest to adopt this recommendation and make it binding on all EU member states for at least 3 months. British tourists should be made as welcome in the EU as planes from Belarus. The EU should also insist on restrictions for travel across the North Channel, given the porous border between the 6 counties and the rest of Ireland.

I can't see Spain and Greece acquiescing, as I understand it individual Nations within the EU have a fair bit of leeway to ignore Merkel.

She can keep her neb out of CTA Areas as well.
 

kristiang85

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The most powerful politician in the EU has recommended that all UK visitors to the EU are quarantined, and there is a very good case for this given that the UK has much higher infection rates than most of the EU at present, and most UK cases are now due to the more highly infectious Delta variant. It is in the EU's interest to adopt this recommendation and make it binding on all EU member states for at least 3 months. British tourists should be made as welcome in the EU as planes from Belarus. The EU should also insist on restrictions for travel across the North Channel, given the porous border between the 6 counties and the rest of Ireland.

We also do a lot more testing than most of the EU countries (if not all), and the delta variant is already in significant proportions there. A quarantine would make diddly squat difference; it is merely a political move.

And as said above, the "southern" EU states don't take kindly to the "northern" ones dictating policy to them, especially when it's likely to damage them economically.
 

DelayRepay

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We also do a lot more testing than most of the EU countries (if not all), and the delta variant is already in significant proportions there. A quarantine would make diddly squat difference; it is merely a political move.

Not only more testing, but also more genomic sequencing, hence we can track the different variants. Wasn't it said at one point that we did half of the world's genomic sequencing, and that Wales did more in a week than France had done in the whole pandemic?

Is there any country in Europe that tests as much as we do? Is anyone else basically saying everyone should use a LFT twice a week, with school testing programmes, workplace testing, and then the surge testing we set up in certain areas in response to local outbreaks?
 

Bantamzen

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The most powerful politician in the EU has recommended that all UK visitors to the EU are quarantined, and there is a very good case for this given that the UK has much higher infection rates than most of the EU at present, and most UK cases are now due to the more highly infectious Delta variant. It is in the EU's interest to adopt this recommendation and make it binding on all EU member states for at least 3 months. British tourists should be made as welcome in the EU as planes from Belarus. The EU should also insist on restrictions for travel across the North Channel, given the porous border between the 6 counties and the rest of Ireland.
Merkel is playing politics, not science. Also, she does not have say on what other countries choose to do about UK tourists. As has been pointed out above, some EU nations rely on tourism income, and the UK market is a large one.

And what about the German football team, due to visit the UK next Tuesday? Should they obey her wishes should they win and isolate for 10 days?
 

TravelDream

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The most powerful politician in the EU has recommended that all UK visitors to the EU are quarantined, and there is a very good case for this given that the UK has much higher infection rates than most of the EU at present, and most UK cases are now due to the more highly infectious Delta variant.
This has already been said above, but just for emphasis this isn't true.
Some EU countries do very little testing. For example Poland's raw Covid rate is tiny, but just look how few tests they do.
Some countries do next to no genome sequencing. France does less than 1% and I think we do about two-thirds. Even with this, Delta is proven to be in basically every EU country already. *That's not to say every EU country is bad at it; Denmark also sequence the majority.

Where I disagree with the posters answering you though is what Southern European countries might do. Portugal has already said they will have to consider this very carefully. Spain might be very reliant on tourism, but you'll find more Germans on Majorca is a normal non-Covid year than Brits so the Germans have a lot of leverage.
 

Bantamzen

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This has already been said above, but just for emphasis this isn't true.
Some EU countries do very little testing. For example Poland's raw Covid rate is tiny, but just look how few tests they do.
Some countries do next to no genome sequencing. France does less than 1% and I think we do about two-thirds. Even with this, Delta is proven to be in basically every EU country already. *That's not to say every EU country is bad at it; Denmark also sequence the majority.

Where I disagree with the posters answering you though is what Southern European countries might do. Portugal has already said they will have to consider this very carefully. Spain might be very reliant on tourism, but you'll find more Germans on Majorca is a normal non-Covid year than Brits so the Germans have a lot of leverage.
Majorca isn't the only destination in Southern Europe..... ;)

Seriously though, there is still a huge market for British tourism there, and let's not forget Merkel is perfectly willing to shut down parts of her own country at a snap. I'm willing to bet that at some point she'll do just that when she realises that the "Delta" variant is swimming around her country. And let's be frank, German relations with those nations hasn't exactly been sweet, and even in her own nation she is losing popularity. Another spat with other EU nations is the last thing she & Germany needs. Merkel is playing silly political games, and she is going to get her fingers burnt at some point.
 

westv

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Where I disagree with the posters answering you though is what Southern European countries might do. Portugal has already said they will have to consider this very carefully. Spain might be very reliant on tourism, but you'll find more Germans on Majorca is a normal non-Covid year than Brits so the Germans have a lot of leverage.
That might be true but aren't visitors from the UK the main overall visitors to Spain as a whole?
 

yorksrob

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Merkel's only proposing what Johnson should have done. An increased seeding of the Delta variant just wouldn't be helpful at this stage in Germany's vaccination programme (anymore than it was in ours).
 

TravelDream

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Majorca isn't the only destination in Southern Europe..... ;)

Seriously though, there is still a huge market for British tourism there, and let's not forget Merkel is perfectly willing to shut down parts of her own country at a snap. I'm willing to bet that at some point she'll do just that when she realises that the "Delta" variant is swimming around her country. And let's be frank, German relations with those nations hasn't exactly been sweet, and even in her own nation she is losing popularity. Another spat with other EU nations is the last thing she & Germany needs. Merkel is playing silly political games, and she is going to get her fingers burnt at some point.

Of course.
There are many destinations, but what I am saying is the net is closing. Currently no Italy or France. Portugal considering quarantine. So Spain and Greece might be the only options. However, mainland Spain and Greece and amber greatly limiting tourism options.

In Spain, more Brits visit than Germans, but that won't be the case whilst the mainland remains on the Amber list. That's the leverage I am talking about. Obviously it's best for Spain to have their cake and eat it, but, if they can't, it's better to either eat it or have it rather than nothing at all.

Oh, and in Germany, state and municipal government have power over lockdowns.
 

Bantamzen

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Of course.
There are many destinations, but what I am saying is the net is closing. Currently no Italy or France. Portugal considering quarantine. So Spain and Greece might be the only options. However, mainland Spain and Greece and amber greatly limiting tourism options.

In Spain, more Brits visit than Germans, but that won't be the case whilst the mainland remains on the Amber list. That's the leverage I am talking about. Obviously it's best for Spain to have their cake and eat it, but, if they can't, it's better to either eat it or have it rather than nothing at all.

Oh, and in Germany, state and municipal government have power over lockdowns.
Well hopefully next week that leverage will be vastly reduced. I don't like the idea of a two tier system by any means, however if it signals to Merkel that she doesn't get to dictate where we can & cannot go maybe other nations will follow Spain & Greece.
 

notlob.divad

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Some EU countries do very little testing. For example Poland's raw Covid rate is tiny, but just look how few tests they do.
However the opposite end of the scale throwing thousands of tests at the problem (which seems to have been the uk strategy) isn't helpful either.

If Poland's low testing rate was causing an issue, you would expect to have the situation that we had back in November for the 1st wave, and April for the 2nd (Alpha) wave when the ratio of cases to test were 1:2 and 1:3 tests came back positive. The most recent data has a rate well below 1:100 with the last couple of days being below 1:300. These are the best numbers Poland has had in the entire epidemic and it is trending in the right direction, although flattening off recently.

Meanwhile in the UK, you were down at 1:500 even 1:600 during May, but have been trending in the wrong direction and recently passed back over the 1:100 mark.

As for the sequencing, because numbers are very low at the minute, a lot are getting sequenced. I can tell you from yesterday's report that there are 23 cases of Delta in my region, which is <2% of current cases, whilst the Alpha is still >83%.

The UK throwing out 1 million tests per day, to find a positivity rate around 0.02% doesn't (to most countries) seem a sensible use of resources. However I would also agree that getting a 50% or even 30% positivity rate from 80-90 000 tests is also not the position you want to be in. So it is clear countries are using available testing capacity in very very different ways. So yes, the UK is currently performing approx 10x the testing of Poland, (both absolute and normalised to population), but at the moment the UK has 79x the number of absolute cases and 44x the number normalised, and that is with the huge headstart the UK had on the vaccination program.

I am not saying that Poland is a shining example of how it should be done, certainly after a good few months, the vaccination program is starting to flounder somewhat, but it neither would I be treating the UK like it is either just because millions of ₤ are being spent on a million tests a day, if that testing capacity isn't proactively being targetted.
 

Butts

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Looks like Ireland is going to treat vaccinated Brits and Yanks the same as EU Members when they open up on July 19th.

Hope they stick to this as I'm due in Dublin on 28th July !!
 

Bantamzen

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And in other news Nanny Merkel, she of "Brits must be quarantined" infamy, having told German fans not to travel to England is, erm travelling to England next week....
 

daodao

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And in other news Nanny Merkel, she of "Brits must be quarantined" infamy, having told German fans not to travel to England is, erm travelling to England next week....
.... presumably in anticipation of a victory, as per the German national anthem "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles".
 

kristiang85

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And in other news Nanny Merkel, she of "Brits must be quarantined" infamy, having told German fans not to travel to England is, erm travelling to England next week....

Well hopefully that will put paid to her stupid ideas, as the southern EU states will very much be aware of the hypocrasy.
 

daodao

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Well hopefully that will put paid to her stupid ideas, as the southern EU states will very much be aware of the hypocrasy.
It is not stupid from an EU perspective. The Mediterranean resorts will not be able to operate at full capacity this summer, so it is appropriate to give EU citizens, whose countries currently have lower Covid infection rates than the UK, priority access.
 

Bantamzen

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It is not stupid from an EU perspective. The Mediterranean resorts will not be able to operate at full capacity this summer, so it is appropriate to give EU citizens, whose countries currently have lower Covid infection rates than the UK, priority access.
Do you actually believe that resorts will be fully complying with such restrictions?
 

Richard Scott

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It is not stupid from an EU perspective. The Mediterranean resorts will not be able to operate at full capacity this summer, so it is appropriate to give EU citizens, whose countries currently have lower Covid infection rates than the UK, priority access.
Do they have lower rates? How many you find depends on how many you test and that's not consistent across all nations.
 
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