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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

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Butts

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I think the tests should be free to enter the UK - they can use APD to fund it which I'm sure would cover the cost price.

Economies of scale if The Government was the sole provider would force the price down.
 
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Yew

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I think the tests should be free to enter the UK - they can use APD to fund it which I'm sure would cover the cost price.

Economies of scale if The Government was the sole provider would force the price down.
Indeed, if they’re free for everything but international travel, I see no reason not to extend that to international travel too.
 

Butts

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Indeed, if they’re free for everything but international travel, I see no reason not to extend that to international travel too.

There must be loads of unused Testing Kits knocking about why not utilise them for a useful purpose ?
 

joncombe

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Something else that might force an opinion change is if the environmental pollution that comes with all these tests and masks in particular is exposed, maybe possible if David Attenborough does so in the same way his Blue Planet 2 helped change attitudes on single use plastics pre-covid.


It's just hit me thanks to this news that a possible reason France is staying in its special "List", despite the rest of the EU being cleared for quarantine free travel for 2x jabbed, is because our border controls are likely unable to cope with the influx of travellers by road across the channel thanks to you know what, and scenes of long tailbacks on the M20 and further food shortages will be politically damaging. It would explain why this category was made just before the summer holidays started, what would give this away more is if this rule is suddenly lifted just as the holidays end.
It also seems to be based on the South African variant or whatever it's called now being prevalent except that the cases of that variant are mostly not in mainland France but islands. So I think you might have a point.

I wonder if some people are trying to get around the rules by flying via Dublin? Especially on the way home, you can avoid paying for tests and potentially quarantine. Of course, once you enter England having been somewhere in mainland Europe in the last 10 days, the rules still apply even if you've been through Dublin. But who would ever know?
I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?

I can just imagine an awkward conversation with immigrartion "So you say your are coming from Dublin sir and you haven't been outside the common travel area for 10 days. However I can see your passport was scanned in Spain 3 days ago. Can you explain that?"

There must be loads of unused Testing Kits knocking about why not utilise them for a useful purpose ?
I booked a trip to Guernsey after they opened (from 1st July) with no restrictions on entry from the UK but now they have changed the rules again. They announced you would require a test as a condition of entry. Then the next day the backed down from this and decided that instead you are required to purchase 5 Lateral flow tests as a condition of quarantine-free entry for £25. You can only buy 5. You can only buy them from the Government there on entry, free tests we can get in England won't be accepted.

However there is no requirement to actually take the tests, but it is suggested you take one every other day. If you are going for less than 5 days (as I am) you won't get through 5 tests even if you take one every day but you still cannot buy less than 5. So a lot of waste there I can't imagine many will bother to bring back the unused ones.
 
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johncrossley

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I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?

I can just imagine an awkward conversation with immigrartion "So you say your are coming from Dublin sir and you haven't been outside the common travel area for 10 days. However I can see your passport was scanned in Spain 3 days ago. Can you explain that?"

You don't pass through passport control and there's no need to have a passport when flying from Dublin to the UK (as an aside, *to* Dublin you do pass through passport control and therefore have to convince the officer that you don't need a passport), so this conversation shouldn't arise. However, there are exit checks when leaving the UK, so the UK government will already know you left the country recently.
 

island

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However, there are exit checks when leaving the UK, so the UK government will already know you left the country recently.
The UK hasn’t had outbound passport control when flying abroad for many years.

I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?
If it gets logged in Spain it won’t be accessible by the UK government, certainly not after Brexit anyway.
 

johncrossley

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The UK hasn’t had outbound passport control when flying abroad for many years.

Exit checks have resumed, but they aren't carried out by passport control. When flying you now submit your passport details online through the 'Advance Passenger Information'. When travelling by ferry, Eurostar or Eurotunnel, operational staff (not passport staff) take down your passport number.
 

TravelDream

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I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?

I can just imagine an awkward conversation with immigrartion "So you say your are coming from Dublin sir and you haven't been outside the common travel area for 10 days. However I can see your passport was scanned in Spain 3 days ago. Can you explain that?"

No travel data is stored on the chip and databases are not shared between countries so the UK would have no idea if you went to Spain, South Africa or New Zealand unless the person searches through the pages of your passport and checking for stamps (if that country did indeed stamp your passport).

Of course in the CTA, you don't technically need a passport (most airlines require it, but ships don't) so could tell UK immigration you only have your driving license.

On exit controls, transport companies (outside of the CTA) are obliged to send passenger lists to the government (API (Advance Passenger Information) for airlines) so the government will know your departure details like date, destination etc. Are these databases matched up? Who knows - I would guess yes though based on news stories of people getting caught.
 

johncrossley

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Exit checks resumed 2015


New exit checks are being phased in at all airports and ports in the UK.

The government wants everyone leaving the UK by air, sea and rail to have their passport or travel documents scanned and verified, in order to combat illegal immigration.

Fears of lengthy delays mean that initially only a quarter of passports will be checked, but that will increase to 100% within two months.

If you went *both* ways through Dublin then you wouldn't have the exit check either. Obviously there must be a great temptation for people in Northern Ireland to do this.
 
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Butts

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It also seems to be based on the South African variant or whatever it's called now being prevalent except that the cases of that variant are mostly not in mainland France but islands. So I think you might have a point.


I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?

I can just imagine an awkward conversation with immigrartion "So you say your are coming from Dublin sir and you haven't been outside the common travel area for 10 days. However I can see your passport was scanned in Spain 3 days ago. Can you explain that?"


I booked a trip to Guernsey after they opened (from 1st July) with no restrictions on entry from the UK but now they have changed the rules again. They announced you would require a test as a condition of entry. Then the next day the backed down from this and decided that instead you are required to purchase 5 Lateral flow tests as a condition of quarantine-free entry for £25. You can only buy 5. You can only buy them from the Government there on entry, free tests we can get in England won't be accepted.

However there is no requirement to actually take the tests, but it is suggested you take one every other day. If you are going for less than 5 days (as I am) you won't get through 5 tests even if you take one every day but you still cannot buy less than 5. So a lot of waste there I can't imagine many will bother to bring back the unused ones.

If there is no requirement to take the test what is the point in issuing them ?

Is Jersey still free test on entry ?
 

island

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Exit checks have resumed, but they aren't carried out by passport control. When flying you now submit your passport details online through the 'Advance Passenger Information'. When travelling by ferry, Eurostar or Eurotunnel, operational staff (not passport staff) take down your passport number.
Depends where you’re travelling to and whether you submit accurate information.
 

berneyarms

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I did wonder about that. I know most passports have a chip in them now. So wondering if it gets logged somewhere whenever your passport has been scanned? If so can the UK Government access it?

I can just imagine an awkward conversation with immigrartion "So you say your are coming from Dublin sir and you haven't been outside the common travel area for 10 days. However I can see your passport was scanned in Spain 3 days ago. Can you explain that?"

No travel data is stored on the chip and databases are not shared between countries so the UK would have no idea if you went to Spain, South Africa or New Zealand unless the person searches through the pages of your passport and checking for stamps (if that country did indeed stamp your passport).

Of course in the CTA, you don't technically need a passport (most airlines require it, but ships don't) so could tell UK immigration you only have your driving license.

On exit controls, transport companies (outside of the CTA) are obliged to send passenger lists to the government (API (Advance Passenger Information) for airlines) so the government will know your departure details like date, destination etc. Are these databases matched up? Who knows - I would guess yes though based on news stories of people getting caught.

Actually UK and Irish immigration authorities do share information with one another, so if this became an issue, I think UK Border Force would then increase spot checks on Irish arrivals (remember that there is no immigration check on CTA arrivals into Great Britain).

Irish immigration (which you would have to pass through as entering the CTA) scan your passport and know where you've come from.

Finally, remember that not completing the Irish or UK Passenger Locator Forms accurately remains a criminal offence in both jurisdictions.
 

TravelDream

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Actually UK and Irish immigration authorities do share information with one another, so if this became an issue, I think UK Border Force would then increase spot checks on Irish arrivals (remember that there is no immigration check on CTA arrivals into Great Britain).

I want to make clear that I am not encouraging anyone to break the law and, as I said above, putting the wrong information on passenger locator forms is illegal.

However, what you have said it just totally untrue. The UK and ROI do not share immigration data on people who enter/ leave the republic and the UK does not share it on people who enter and leave the UK. UK officials have no access to the Irish database and Irish officials have no access to the UK database.
The two countries under treaty share very limited information that is mainly restricted to Indian and Chinese nationals who apply for and receive the joint UK-Ireland visa only available to people of those two nationalities.

Depends where you’re travelling to and whether you submit accurate information.

The data is the data you submit to the airline when doing online check-in/ booking the flight. You can't input wrong information or the airline won't let you fly. Your name, DOB and passport number are all checked at check-in/ the gate at the airport. The airline automatically submits this data to the government.
Eurostar operate similarly and I imagine ferries do too.
 

island

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The data is the data you submit to the airline when doing online check-in/ booking the flight. You can't input wrong information or the airline won't let you fly.
Airlines do not have a list of “valid” passport numbers and there is no checksum or validation algorithm for a passport number.
Your name, DOB and passport number are all checked at check-in/ the gate at the airport.
This does not happen consistently. For example, if travelling hand luggage only on British Airways/Aer Lingus, your passport number is not checked at all – it does not appear on the boarding pass, and staff at the gate do not look at anything other than your boarding pass and passport.
Eurostar operate similarly and I imagine ferries do too.
At Eurostar, a Eurostar staff member swipes your passport before you leave the UK terminals, so it is likely this journey will be recorded accurately. I have not taken a ferry in some time So cannot comment on that.

I think it’s clear that the API system and UK exit controls are quite porous, but we are getting off-topic.
 

berneyarms

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I want to make clear that I am not encouraging anyone to break the law and, as I said above, putting the wrong information on passenger locator forms is illegal.

However, what you have said it just totally untrue. The UK and ROI do not share immigration data on people who enter/ leave the republic and the UK does not share it on people who enter and leave the UK. UK officials have no access to the Irish database and Irish officials have no access to the UK database.
The two countries under treaty share very limited information that is mainly restricted to Indian and Chinese nationals who apply for and receive the joint UK-Ireland visa only available to people of those two nationalities.



The data is the data you submit to the airline when doing online check-in/ booking the flight. You can't input wrong information or the airline won't let you fly. Your name, DOB and passport number are all checked at check-in/ the gate at the airport. The airline automatically submits this data to the government.
Eurostar operate similarly and I imagine ferries do too.
I didn’t say they share all information, or have access to each other’s databases, but there certainly is some information sharing beyond the two countries that have common CTA visas that you mentioned as that can lead to intelligence led checks by UK Border Force.
 

Butts

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Not having travelled to Dublin for a few years are people saying you need a Passport when coming in from the UK ? - I thought a driving licence would suffice.

Also I assume on arrival in both the UK and Ireland you have to now go through Customs (Duty Free back) but not Immigration (Passport Control).

Or what is the precise procedure - travelling on BA.
 

johncrossley

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Not having travelled to Dublin for a few years are people saying you need a Passport when coming in from the UK ? - I thought a driving licence would suffice.

You have to demonstrate to the official that you are a British or Irish citizen. The easiest way is to present a British or Irish passport.
 

berneyarms

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Not having travelled to Dublin for a few years are people saying you need a Passport when coming in from the UK ? - I thought a driving licence would suffice.

Also I assume on arrival in both the UK and Ireland you have to now go through Customs (Duty Free back) but not Immigration (Passport Control).

Or what is the precise procedure - travelling on BA.
All arrivals into Dublin pass through immigration.

UK and Irish citizens arriving on flights from the UK can avail of the provisions of the Common Travel Area, and as such do not have to present a passport, but rather some form of photographic ID, such as a driving licence. They do however have to satisfy the immigration official that they are an Irish or British citizen and as such entitled to avail of the CTA provisions. As the previous poster says, the easiest way to do that is to present your passport.

Returning to the UK, there is not normally an immigration check on flights from Ireland upon arrival, although UK Border Force do perform intelligence led spot checks on flights arriving from Ireland from time to time (I've had my passport checked at least on two occasions arriving into London City from Dublin).

All airlines' policy on ID when flying within the CTA is in line with the CTA requirements, with the exception of Ryanair who require all passengers to present a passport prior to boarding.

You pass through customs in both directions.
 

island

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All arrivals into Dublin pass through immigration.

UK and Irish citizens arriving on flights from the UK can avail of the provisions of the Common Travel Area, and as such do not have to present a passport, but rather some form of photographic ID, such as a driving licence. They do however have to satisfy the immigration official that they are an Irish or British citizen and as such entitled to avail of the CTA provisions. As the previous poster says, the easiest way to do that is to present your passport.

Returning to the UK, there is not normally an immigration check on flights from Ireland upon arrival, although UK Border Force do perform intelligence led spot checks on flights arriving from Ireland from time to time (I've had my passport checked at least on two occasions arriving into London City from Dublin).

All airlines' policy on ID when flying within the CTA is in line with the CTA requirements, with the exception of Ryanair who require all passengers to present a passport prior to boarding.

You pass through customs in both directions.
This is all true as respects flights.

Ferry crossings tend to have a more risk-based approach at the Irish side with less systematic checks. And for political reasons there are no routine checks at the land border (though Gardaí do sometimes board the Enterprise at Dundalk for risk-based checks).
 

zero

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This does not happen consistently. For example, if travelling hand luggage only on British Airways/Aer Lingus, your passport number is not checked at all – it does not appear on the boarding pass, and staff at the gate do not look at anything other than your boarding pass and passport.

At Eurostar, a Eurostar staff member swipes your passport before you leave the UK terminals, so it is likely this journey will be recorded accurately. I have not taken a ferry in some time So cannot comment on that.

When flying outside the CTA, if you wish to check in online you must submit your passport number to the airline. If travelling hand baggage only, then yes, occasionally your physical passport details will not be validated by a human on that particular trip.

If you entered a false British passport number I am close to certain that even if you managed to get a boarding pass, it would be rejected by the time you came to board the flight; also BA definitely submits the API to countries like the USA, Canada and Australia and if an invalid passport number was entered online check in would fail.

If your physical passport is not validated on that particular trip, it will have been seen by BA at some point in the past. I don't know about Aer Lingus as I have never flown with them.

From my and others' experiences with BA flying around Europe and the world pre-Brexit and pre-COVID, after around 10 trips HBO, I would be unable to issue a boarding pass online and I would have to swipe my passport at a self-check in machine at the airport, occasionally this would also fail and a human would need to see my passport. The only reason that it didn't happen as often as it might was probably that I usually check baggage on long hauls which does require a human passport check, which may have "reset" the counter for being allowed to fly with only a cursory check of the name on my passport
 

westv

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You have to demonstrate to the official that you are a British or Irish citizen. The easiest way is to present a British or Irish passport.
So an area where you don't need a passport might require you to have a passport. :D :D
 

kristiang85

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A few years back I flew from Dublin to Stansted, and they did not accept my passport on entry but wanted to see the flight ticket. I said I'd thrown it in the bin on the plane, but my passport is valid and should let me into the UK. They weren't having it, so I had to find the ticket email on my phone eventually.

It was utterly bizarre. That was 2013 I think so it's probably changed now, but I couldn't quite believe that they had no interest in my passport on entering the UK but some stupid ticket instead.
 

berneyarms

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So an area where you don't need a passport might require you to have a passport. :D :D
Remember that the provisions of the CTA apply only to Irish and British citizens.

Anyone other than an Irish or British citizen requires a passport and a valid visa where applicable to enter either country. There are no common visas for the UK and Ireland other than for certain visas issued to Chinese and Indian citizens.

A few years back I flew from Dublin to Stansted, and they did not accept my passport on entry but wanted to see the flight ticket. I said I'd thrown it in the bin on the plane, but my passport is valid and should let me into the UK. They weren't having it, so I had to find the ticket email on my phone eventually.

It was utterly bizarre. That was 2013 I think so it's probably changed now, but I couldn't quite believe that they had no interest in my passport on entering the UK but some stupid ticket instead.
It was probably the same setup as previously prevailed at Gatwick, when arrivals from Ireland were not segregated from other passengers until the immigration hall, and then you needed to show your boarding pass at a special channel to prove you were coming from Ireland and entitled to avail of bypassing immigration.

In that scenario you could have potentially given your boarding pass to someone arriving from outside the CTA between the aircraft and the immigration hall who was not entitled to enter the UK (a small risk but a risk nevertheless). Hence they were asking for the ticket.

Certainly in Gatwick, the Irish arrivals now have their own arrivals hall which bypasses immigration and there's no longer any mixing of people on arriving flights from within and outside the CTA. I would assume that Stansted is the same.
 
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kristiang85

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By the way, does anybody recommend a cheap but reputable Day 2 return testing company to book with for my return from Romania?

(I'm double vaccinated and its an amber country, although it's likely to go green this week).
 

berneyarms

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I was referring to British and Irish citizens. :)
Again, the problem is how the Irish immigration authorities would be able to segregate non-Irish and UK citizens from everyone else on the flight who may not have a valid visa.
Illegal immigration into Ireland from GB by air was identified by the Irish authorities as a not-immaterial problem back in the 1990s and hence the full checks were imposed on every flight arriving into the country.

Clearly the UK authorities do not view this as such a major risk in the other direction, and that's probably down to the much lower number of destinations that one can fly to Dublin from than the likes of Manchester and London, and hence don't have mandated checks on the flights.
 

island

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Again, the problem is how the Irish immigration authorities would be able to segregate non-Irish and UK citizens from everyone else on the flight who may not have a valid visa.
Illegal immigration into Ireland from GB by air was identified by the Irish authorities as a not-immaterial problem back in the 1990s and hence the full checks were imposed on every flight arriving into the country.

Clearly the UK authorities do not view this as such a major risk in the other direction, and that's probably down to the much lower number of destinations that one can fly to Dublin from than the likes of Manchester and London, and hence don't have mandated checks on the flights.
At any airport other than Dublin there’s rarely more than one flight coming in at a time so they could quite easily let people through, but they’ve chosen not to.
 

berneyarms

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At any airport other than Dublin there’s rarely more than one flight coming in at a time so they could quite easily let people through, but they’ve chosen not to.
As I said, the it was seen as a risk as there were significant numbers (in relative terms) arriving without valid visas on flights from the UK back in the 1990s when the Irish economy started to boom, thereby abusing the CTA, and it was decided to check all of the flights.
 

route101

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When I pass through passport control at Dublin, I usually show my driving licence.

I once had a check at Belfast port outbound by UK Border Force back in 2010.
 
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