Whistle / horn signals

[DelW]

In June's "Trains" magazine (from the USA), it states in reply to a reader's question that the standard US level crossing warning, long-long-short-long blasts of the locomotive horn, originated in Britain. (It actually refers to England, but then most Americans don't understand the difference between England and Britain).

The origin the author states is that it represents the Morse code letter "Q", and that that was a signal first used by British ships to warn others that the Queen was on board. This signal supposedly then became used by trains on which the Queen was travelling, and was taken to the US by British engine drivers who moved there and used the same signal as a general warning.

This is all possible but I have doubts for several reasons:

According to Wikipedia, the current version of Morse code including this form of "Q" was devised in 1848 in Germany, and was not adopted internationally until 1865, both well after Queen Victoria began travelling by train.
I think that British Royal trains were always marked out by use of (four) headlights, which would have meant a special whistle signal was unnecessary.
I have never heard of such a complex whistle signal being used in Britain, my memory from steam days was that a simple single or double hoot was all that was normally used, e.g. between train engine and pilot or banker, or as a warning.
Royal trains would have been driven by the most senior top-link drivers, who would have been unlikely to emigrate to America in significant numbers.

Has anyone else heard of this theory, or come across this signal being used here? Is there any back-up evidence for it?

 

[furnessvale]

In June's "Trains" magazine (from the USA), it states in reply to a reader's question that the standard US level crossing warning, long-long-short-long blasts of the locomotive horn, originated in Britain. (It actually refers to England, but then most Americans don't understand the difference between England and Britain).

The origin the author states is that it represents the Morse code letter "Q", and that that was a signal first used by British ships to warn others that the Queen was on board. This signal supposedly then became used by trains on which the Queen was travelling, and was taken to the US by British engine drivers who moved there and used the same signal as a general warning.

This is all possible but I have doubts for several reasons:

According to Wikipedia, the current version of Morse code including this form of "Q" was devised in 1848 in Germany, and was not adopted internationally until 1865, both well after Queen Victoria began travelling by train.
I think that British Royal trains were always marked out by use of (four) headlights, which would have meant a special whistle signal was unnecessary.
I have never heard of such a complex whistle signal being used in Britain, my memory from steam days was that a simple single or double hoot was all that was normally used, e.g. between train engine and pilot or banker, or as a warning.
Royal trains would have been driven by the most senior top-link drivers, who would have been unlikely to emigrate to America in significant numbers.

Has anyone else heard of this theory, or come across this signal being used here? Is there any back-up evidence for it?

I have no comment on the rest of your post, but in steam days there were quite a number of different whistle codes used, often as local instructions, for the driver to communicate with the signalman.

 

[pdeaves]

in steam days there were quite a number of different whistle codes used, often as local instructions, for the driver to communicate with the signalman.

Lots of old sectional appendices and weekly notices have such instructions. For example, the 1938 LMS 'central lines' sectional appendix states that at Brighouse, drivers to or from the shunt neck and down loop must give "2 and 1 crow". There are pages and pages of these 'codes' with a mixture of long, short, crow, (pause) and just a number without a length in various combinations. Fleetwood station looks as though it was a noisy place with no fewer than 21 different whistle codes in use!

 

[GW43125]

[stupid question alert]
What's a crow whistle?

 

[pdeaves]

[stupid question alert]
What's a crow whistle?

No such thing as a stupid question if it is genuine.

I think a 'crow' is where the driver adjusts the amount of pull on the whistle, whilst it is sounding giving a woooOOOooOOoooOO-type noise, like pitch bend (hard to put in text!).

 

[Welshman]

I have no comment on the rest of your post, but in steam days there were quite a number of different whistle codes used, often as local instructions, for the driver to communicate with the signalman.

Not only with the signalman!
I remember reading that some drivers living near the railway line had a special whistle code they would give to their wives as they passed-by, meaning "I'll be home in an hour. Get the supper on!"

I also remember reading about a "rude" whistle-code, reserved for tardy signalmen who had taken the run out of them. I think I can imagine what it might have sounded like, but can anyone describe what it actually was?

Another unofficial code became widely-used in West Yorkshire with the introduction of the 1st Gen. dmus. Imaginative drivers realised their new two-tone horn [doh-fa] allowed them to play the first line of the chorus of "On Ilkla Moor Bah't 'at" and they demonstrated their newly-found skills with joy at every available opportunity, causing mirth to those sitting behind them in the saloon. Unfortunately, some people living be the line objected to their national anthem being used in such a way, and the practice was stopped!!

 

[PeterC]

"On Ilkla Moor Bah't 'at" is only the song, the tune is the hymn tune Cranbrook. Also used in Yorkshire for a setting of While Shepherds Watched.
/PEDANT

 

[Tomnick]

Lots of old sectional appendices and weekly notices have such instructions. For example, the 1938 LMS 'central lines' sectional appendix states that at Brighouse, drivers to or from the shunt neck and down loop must give "2 and 1 crow". There are pages and pages of these 'codes' with a mixture of long, short, crow, (pause) and just a number without a length in various combinations. Fleetwood station looks as though it was a noisy place with no fewer than 21 different whistle codes in use!

There are still a few examples around to this day, albeit rather simpler than most of the above. One such example is used by trains for the Corby direction (at Manton Jn) approaching Ashwell (between Leicester and Peterborough) - one long followed by one short. Ashwell, Langham and Oakham each then use a special 'train entering section' bell signal (2-2-2) to indicate the route to Manton.

 

[philthetube]

Another unofficial code became widely-used in West Yorkshire with the introduction of the 1st Gen. dmus. Imaginative drivers realised their new two-tone horn [doh-fa] allowed them to play the first line of the chorus of "On Ilkla Moor Bah't 'at" and they demonstrated their newly-found skills with joy at every available opportunity, causing mirth to those sitting behind them in the saloon. Unfortunately, some people living be the line objected to their national anthem being used in such a way, and the practice was stopped!!

I remember being at Old Trafford and hearing this, not sure where the driver would be from but suspect based in Lancs.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Another unofficial code became widely-used in West Yorkshire with the introduction of the 1st Gen. dmus. Imaginative drivers realised their new two-tone horn [doh-fa] allowed them to play the first line of the chorus of "On Ilkla Moor Bah't 'at" and they demonstrated their newly-found skills with joy at every available opportunity, causing mirth to those sitting behind them in the saloon. Unfortunately, some people living be the line objected to their national anthem being used in such a way, and the practice was stopped!!

I've seen a video on youtube (no idea if its still on or not) of a passing TPE with the driver firing out the Yorkshire anthem.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have no comment on the rest of your post, but in steam days there were quite a number of different whistle codes used, often as local instructions, for the driver to communicate with the signalman.

And to a guard as well, I assume, as they wouldn't have otherwise been in contact with each other?

 

[furnessvale]

And to a guard as well, I assume, as they wouldn't have otherwise been in contact with each other?

True. Such things as requests for braking on unfitted trains etc.

 

[DelW]

Well, it seems steam era whistle signals were a lot more complicated than I remembered, though perhaps not surprising as I was only just a teenager at the end of steam in my area.

But there's been no backup for the theory of the long long short long signal having originated here on Royal trains.

Thanks for responses, and for reminding me about tunes on two tone horns.