Why is the Swiss public transport system so much better than the UK's?

[rs101]

Recently spent 10 days in various parts of Switzerland and it amazed me just how good their public transport networks are.

A few examples.

1. Half price travelcard. For around £106 you can buy a card which gets half price travel on virtually all public transport for 30 days - trains, buses and even the paddle steamers on Lac Leman. No time restrictions like UK railcards. Swiss residents can get a longer validity one for not much more.
2. Free travel with hotel accommodation. When staying in many hotels in towns and cities, you receive a pass for free use of the local public transport. Have had this in Geneva, Montreux, Lausanne and Bern over the last few years.
3. SBB route planner will use local buses as well as trains and even includes walking times to hotels, etc.
4. Clear info on the route planner and station info screens about the train layout, so you know exactly where the different classes are on each train. The website even shows you how busy each carriage normally is.
5. Cost - it's so much cheaper than travel here. For example, the journey from Bern to Geneva is 2 hours, similar to Norwich to London Liverpool Street. But to travel at 8am on a weekday there costs undiscounted is 51CHF (about £44), compared to £76 on Greater Anglia. Or the cheapest options (prebooked specific journeys with railcards) are 21.40CHF (£18.50) vs £36 here at that time.
6. Station design seems far more sensible. Pretty much every station has both steps and ramps to each platform, so easy for anyone of reduced mobility or dragging a suitcase full of cheese to get around. Even a tiny station serving less than 50 houses was more accessible than Colchester, which has no lift at the exit.

But the best of all has to be Easyride, part of the SBB app. Just swipe at the start of the journey, then again at the end and it works out how you got there, even if you go from bus to train and back to bus. Quotes a price, but then at the end of the day works out if a travelcard might be better value and charges accordingly. Any problems and you can query a journey within the app.

My view of the UK network was probably soured by yet more engineering works on the Sunday we arrived home, meaning the delights of Central Line from Stratford to Newbury Park, then buses to Ingatestone. So getting back to Colchester from London City took nearly 3 hours, not the usual 90 minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Because they spend far more subsidy on it than we do" is probably the answer.

#2 isn't free, by the way, you pay for it via the tourist tax whether you use it or not (which is why the tourist tax isn't the full price of the ticket). I'm very much in support of introducing this here, by the way.

 

[AdamWW]

Recently spent 10 days in various parts of Switzerland and it amazed me just how good their public transport networks are.

A few examples.

1. Half price travelcard. For around £106 you can buy a card which gets half price travel on virtually all public transport for 30 days - trains, buses and even the paddle steamers on Lac Leman. No time restrictions like UK railcards. Swiss residents can get a longer validity one for not much more.

I think of it the other way round - they double the regular prices for people without a half fare card.

If I recall correctly, the default on the (excellent) journey planner is to show the "half fare" prices - you have to tell it you want the full price if you don't have a half fare card.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think of it the other way round - they double the regular prices for people without a half fare card.

Yep, it's quite clever like that. "Think of a reasonable fare, double it then apply the half fare card discount".

The upsides of this are twofold. First of all you can charge a "tourist tax". Secondly, when you have bought your half fare card you're "invested" in it so are more likely to travel by rail to get value out of it. The Network Railcard was born out of a similar idea.

 

[AdamWW]

Yep, it's quite clever like that. "Think of a reasonable fare, double it then apply the half fare card discount".

The upsides of this are twofold. First of all you can charge a "tourist tax". Secondly, when you have bought your half fare card you're "invested" in it so are more likely to travel by rail to get value out of it. The Network Railcard was born out of a similar idea.

I suppose the downside of the Swiss approach is that it doesn't give much incentive for someone to give rail travel a try, and possibly discover they prefer it to the car.

I thought the Network Railcard was intended to increase off-peak leisure travel.

Was it accompanied by a sudden increase of off-peak fares so the discounted fare came to the original one? If so a bit unfair on other railcard users.

 

[M&NEJ]

Why is the Swiss public transport system so much better than the UK's?​

I think the answer lies in the political landscape - on any major issue the Swiss have a referendum and let the people decide. The UK's politicians always have excuses as to why we shouldn't do that here!

 

[AdamWW]

Why is the Swiss public transport system so much better than the UK's?​

I think the answer lies in the political landscape - on any major issue the Swiss have a referendum and let the people decide. The UK's politicians always have excuses as to why we shouldn't do that here!

California is of course the example of why this might not always be such a good idea.

 

[RT4038]

California is of course the example of why this might not always be such a good idea.

The last time it was done in the UK hasn't exactly been covered in glory either!

 

[M&NEJ]

Around the turn of this century (I think) the Swiss did have a referendum that endorsed high spending on public transport; so in a simple sense I think it is part of the answer to the question. I'm not disagreeing with the points made about California or the UK; so to answer the question about Switzerland then maybe one has to fall back on a simpler notion: are the Swiss just more sensible as a nation?!

 

[Starmill]

The last time it was done in the UK hasn't exactly been covered in glory either!

Indeed although that was just yes/no, with one of the options being the status quo and the other having nothing defined behind it. It was also advisory.

In Switzerland the deal would have been negotiated first at painstaking effort and then put to the vote as a fully costed proposal. This vote would then be binding.

 

[Arkeeos]

Switzerland has good Public transport because subsidy is high and they fully plan out the rail network both of which the UK doesn't have, subsidy is low and there is no future plan. They look at what services they want to run then reverse engineer it backwards into what infrastructure projects need to be done to allow those timetables to run.

 

[rs101]

I think of it the other way round - they double the regular prices for people without a half fare card.

If I recall correctly, the default on the (excellent) journey planner is to show the "half fare" prices - you have to tell it you want the full price if you don't have a half fare card.

It does default to half price, but even the undiscounted price is cheaper than travel here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought the Network Railcard was intended to increase off-peak leisure travel.

It was.

Was it accompanied by a sudden increase of off-peak fares so the discounted fare came to the original one? If so a bit unfair on other railcard users.

No, but the NSE area traditionally discounted Off Peak tickets less than elsewhere in the country to take this into account. It's all evened out now though.

 

[rs101]

Indeed although that was just yes/no, with one of the options being the status quo and the other having nothing defined behind it. It was also advisory.

In Switzerland the deal would have been negotiated first at painstaking effort and then put to the vote as a fully costed proposal. This vote would then be binding.

Yep - Swiss have regular referenda throughout the year, both on Cantonal and national issues.

 

[RT4038]

Switzerland has good Public transport because subsidy is high and they fully plan out the rail network both of which the UK doesn't have, subsidy is low and there is no future plan. They look at what services they want to run then reverse engineer it backwards into what infrastructure projects need to be done to allow those timetables to run.

I understand that, but we are who we are !

 

[rs101]

"Because they spend far more subsidy on it than we do" is probably the answer.

#2 isn't free, by the way, you pay for it via the tourist tax whether you use it or not (which is why the tourist tax isn't the full price of the ticket). I'm very much in support of introducing this here, by the way.

Tourist tax is tiny though - in Lausanne it's £2.65 per person per night. The travelcard also gets half price entry into many of the attractions there, so is incredibly good value.

It makes a lot of sense - the visitors have free travel, so are encouraged to use public transport because they don't have to worry about how buying a ticket might work and there's no risk of being fined for a mistake purchasing it. Their fines can be pretty harsh - 100CHF for the first offence, rising after that.

 

[Starmill]

No, but the NSE area traditionally discounted Off Peak tickets less than elsewhere in the country to take this into account. It's all evened out now though.

The Super Off Peak rates on many very popular flows in the South East mean that, after Network Railcard, the prices are significantly lower than would be achievable anywhere else in the country. Eastbourne to London Super Off Peak Day Return is £13.95 with a railcard. Against for example York to Manchester where it's £33.40 return with most people not qualifying for any discount. Both around 65 miles each way and both have a fast and frequent service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tourist tax is tiny though - in Lausanne it's £2.65 per person per night. The travelcard also gets half price entry into many of the attractions there, so is incredibly good value.

It is small but that's because it works on the basis that not everyone will use it (because Swiss towns and cities are fairly compact so walking is feasible, plus some will drive and some will choose taxis).

 

[dutchflyer]

Other factors beyond this:
1.very heavy goods traffic by train-which is quite costly and also kind of subsidizes the passenger trains
2.most of those little go in the valley till end small branch lines are owned by the kanton/community there-so locals feel some pride in it-plus that they often serve areas out of reach for normal roads
3.NO EU
Several of the factors mentioned also apply to what I think my own country, Nederland/NL, but not all-in fact some of these were copied from CH to NL-and reverse. Like the national all-routes travel planner and we once also had a national all-transit fare system-broken down since in local areas for local buses.
Note that an other specific Swiss offer is also: local communes can buy daypasses from SBB and resell them at a little more to their own inhabitants-or sometimes even for a little more CHF to anyone, or even lend out by the day an impersonal yearly all-transport card

 

[AdamWW]

1. Cost - it's so much cheaper than travel here. For example, the journey from Bern to Geneva is 2 hours, similar to Norwich to London Liverpool Street. But to travel at 8am on a weekday there costs undiscounted is 51CHF (about £44), compared to £76 on Greater Anglia. Or the cheapest options (prebooked specific journeys with railcards) are 21.40CHF (£18.50) vs £36 here at that time.

I have to say the price difference surprises me.

But for a full picture I think you should also consider the intermediate case of off peak returns, which are £62.10 for Norwich to London and thus less than the £88 return for the Bern Geneva journey.

 

[The exile]

It is small but that's because it works on the basis that not everyone will use it (because Swiss towns and cities are fairly compact so walking is feasible, plus some will drive and some will choose taxis).

And also that the tourists tend to be generally travelling off peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And also that the tourists tend to be generally travelling off peak.

Though remember there's business travellers too. My use of them has mostly been peak!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Switzerland is a highly federalised country, and the transport system (which is full of quasi-independent local operators) is part of the glue which binds the federation together.
Federalism here is a dirty word as it sounds like how the EU wanted to operate, and would involve meaningful domestic regional devolution from the UK parliament.
We have a half-baked transport setup with some autonomy for Wales and Scotland (and for some English mayors), but we are a long way short of the cooperative federal Swiss approach.
Germany, Netherlands and Austria are other federalised countries, and some would say Belgium is too.

 

[The exile]

Though remember there's business travellers too. My use of them has mostly been peak!

True - but I was commenting on the tourist tax (which I know has grown in scope to cover non-tourist areas)

 

[Bletchleyite]

True - but I was commenting on the tourist tax (which I know has grown in scope to cover non-tourist areas)

It is probably better described as an "accommodation tax". It's not charged to daytrippers (only Venice seems to want to do that) and it is charged to everyone who stays in a hotel or similar regardless of why.

 

[Austriantrain]

Yep, it's quite clever like that. "Think of a reasonable fare, double it then apply the half fare card discount".

The upsides of this are twofold. First of all you can charge a "tourist tax". Secondly, when you have bought your half fare card you're "invested" in it so are more likely to travel by rail to get value out of it. The Network Railcard was born out of a similar idea.

I don’t think that they doubled regular prices when they introduced „Halbtax“ (nor did ÖBB e.g.), but it has certainly made price increases more bearable since. It’s quite a good way to benefit regular travelers, OTOH not an incentive for irregular passengers (not only tourists) to switch to trains.

Concerning money spent, I found this the other day and posted it on another thread - it’s just the infrastructure spending, though.

According to graph on page 5 of this publication: https://www.allianz-pro-schiene.de/..._Fahrplan_Zukunft_Interaktiv_Einzelseiten.pdf

it‘s 440€ per capita and year in CH (for comparison: 249 in Austria, 131 in the UK and only 88 in Germany).

 

[geoffk]

In Switzerland and other some European countries, people are encouraged to use public transport as a way of helping to reduce carbon emissions, air pollution and congestion. Here public transport users appear to be regarded as an inconvenience and the services they use a burden on the taxpayer. After a lifetime working in public transport, I feel we are now actually going backwards. The uniquely unhelpful British legal, financial and regulatory framework, bus deregulation and the UK's preference for low density urban development are all obstacles in the way of viable local transport. Then there is the expectation that the private sector, with its emphasis on short-termism and high shareholder returns, should take much of the risk.

 

[Rab Smith]

Add to this, if you are railstaff and apply for your International vouchers for SBB and Swiss Private, you could have up to 8 days totally free travel on most of the network.
An amazing perk that I've recently just took advantage of!'

 

[rf_ioliver]

Why is the Swiss public transport system so much better than the UK's?​

I think the answer lies in the political landscape - on any major issue the Swiss have a referendum and let the people decide. The UK's politicians always have excuses as to why we shouldn't do that here!

Also the Swiss have some very strict rules about how referendums are held, how people are informed and the possibilty to discount the result of a referendum if these rules are found to the broken. The Swiss are also much more involved in their political system and hold their politicians to account.

Compare this with, say, the past two referendums here....

 

[306024]

Add to this, if you are railstaff and apply for your International vouchers for SBB and Swiss Private, you could have up to 8 days totally free travel on most of the network.
An amazing perk that I've recently just took advantage of!'

Done many times over the years, simply a marvellous country to travel around. But enjoy it while you are working, up to four years after retirement you can’t

So earlier this year I treated myself to a 15 day Swiss Travel Pass instead. For sad amusement I recorded the timekeeping of just over 100 trains I travelled on. PPM (0-5) came out at 98.6%, soured only by a fatality near Bern. Right time was actually comparatively low, around 60%, with those trains that failed right time around 1-3 minutes late, but you can’t grumble at that.

That said after the fatality we were waiting at Thun for a train and the only information available was on the Swiss Railway app. The platform indicators struggled to cope with the constantly changing situation. No staff visible, and many confused passengers as they aren’t used to Swiss Railways going wrong.