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World's most complex trackwork?

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BRX

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What are candidates for this? I am thinking of junctions, station throats, yards and so on - that is, extensive and complicated trackwork in a relatively self-contained area. Not complex system networks over a large area.

I suppose you might define the 'edge' of any such complex as the point at which tracks become essentially continuous for some distance without any pointwork.
 
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madjack

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Great question. Do you have a suggestion to start us off?

I guess that the most complex layouts would have been rationalised in this country, and in places like Japan there are a huge number of lines, but not greatly interconnected... From memory/guesswork, somewhere like Hamburg?
 

JonasB

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I guess it depends a bit on how you define most complex. But maybe some large European terminus station. Frankfurt Hbf or München Hbf maybe?
 

Alfonso

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What are candidates for this? I am thinking of junctions, station throats, yards and so on - that is, extensive and complicated trackwork in a relatively self-contained area. Not complex system networks over a large area.

I suppose you might define the 'edge' of any such complex as the point at which tracks become essentially continuous for some distance without any pointwork.
I'd imagine Switzerland will throw up some dual or Tri gauge stuff , possibly with some rack thrown in for good measure. It's also the first place I noticed three way points, but they are probably relatively common
 

BRX

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Great question. Do you have a suggestion to start us off?

I guess that the most complex layouts would have been rationalised in this country, and in places like Japan there are a huge number of lines, but not greatly interconnected... From memory/guesswork, somewhere like Hamburg?

The famous newcastle diamonds come first to mind but there are obviously larger complexes elsewhere.

 

stuu

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Milan Centrale is probably equally complex... I would guess that terminal stations with diverging routes outside are the likely locations for most complicated track layout. Zurich Hbf and its approaches must be in the running too
 

100andthirty

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Lat time I travelled by train out of Zurich Hauptbahnhof, I was amazed by length of time spent passing marshalling yards, sidings and diverging junctions. Worth a look on Google satellite view.
 

The exile

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Lat time I travelled by train out of Zurich Hauptbahnhof, I was amazed by length of time spent passing marshalling yards, sidings and diverging junctions. Worth a look on Google satellite view.
Just imagine what a “London Central” might have looked like!
 

Horizon22

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Just imagine what a “London Central” might have looked like!

I'm always amazed by this - add up all the London terminal platforms together (reduce by a few) but it would be monstrously wide! In reality there would probably be a "South" and a "North", but still rather large.
 

43096

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Lat time I travelled by train out of Zurich Hauptbahnhof, I was amazed by length of time spent passing marshalling yards, sidings and diverging junctions. Worth a look on Google satellite view.
My first thought was Zürich Hbf. The view from the end of the platforms shows how complex a layout it is - and there's much more than to it than what is visible here.
ZürichHbf.jpg
 

Davester50

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Lat time I travelled by train out of Zurich Hauptbahnhof, I was amazed by length of time spent passing marshalling yards, sidings and diverging junctions. Worth a look on Google satellite view.

Always seemed to go on forever!
And some of the sharp turns in, out, and underground? Very impressive place.
 

DelW

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If you're accepting non-passenger locations, Union Pacific's Bailey Yard is claimed to be the biggest in the USA, although a lot of it is parallel tracks rather than highly complex. PDF of the layout attached, may need to zoom in to see individual tracks.
 

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Springs Branch

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I've seen several US-produced TV documentaries on the subject of Grand Central Terminal in New York, where the presenter claims GCT is "the biggest and busiest railroad station in the world".

Clearly it's neither of these, but I suspect Grand Central could deserve an Honorable Mention here (without a 'u', of course) on account of it being such a huge two (soon to be four) level arrangement of tracks, sidings, plus a balloon loop or two, which is totally buried underground.

There's no hint in that part of midtown Manhattan about the quantity of railway infrastructure and ironmongery hidden beneath your feet, and when it eventually emerges into daylight north of 97th St, it's all been distilled down to become just a mundane four track railway.

Upper level
RailUS_GCT-upperTracksPlan.gif


Lower level
RailUS_GCT-lowerTracksPlan.gif
 
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100andthirty

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Grand Central Terminus is certainly an impressive place. With something over 30 platforms served by just 4 tracks, turning loops behind the buffers and something line 7/8 mile where the permanent speed restriction is 10mph leads to quite an operation.
 

duesselmartin

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The old Limerick Junction, although small, was very complex. A Rosslare bound train left the platform foreward, reversed past the back of the building onto the Limerick line before going ahead again towards Rosslare.
 

citycat

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When I was at Munich one evening, I think I counted about 23 tracks leading out from the main station when I crossed the bridge.

I was also amazed by the number of loco hauled trains being propelled out of the station at high speed towards the carriage sidings somewhere, with the movement being controlled by a shunter standing in the end gangway with a radio. Does anybody know if the DB shunting guys have special training similar to drivers in watching for signals or correct route pointwork? The trains were propelling amazingly fast.
 

Springs Branch

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Grand Central Terminus is certainly an impressive place. . . . . .
It certainly is - especially the extensive public areas and various quirky nooks & crannies.

Total number of platforms seems to be the one measure (apart from perhaps most expansive layout located totally underground) where Grand Central wins a mine's-bigger-than-yours competition. The Guinness Book of Records says there are 44 platforms on two levels, which superficially sounds something like a "double Waterloo".

When you look more closely, many of the tracks in the station have an individually numbered platform on each side (sometimes called the Spanish solution), which greatly increases the "platform" count.

In terms of (pre-Covid) passenger usage, I believe Grand Central had a similar volume (60-odd million p.a.) as 17-platform London Liverpool Street - although perhaps more concentrated into the two weekday peaks at GCT.

IIRC, the working arrangements at Grand Central are for many of the inbound morning peak-hour trains to just stable in the platform during the day, until it's time for the return working to the suburbs in the afternoon. This will use up a good fraction of all those platforms, and is not a practice you'd find at Waterloo, Liverpool Street or any self-respecting Hauptbahnhof.

The heavy peak-period traffic is accommodated by the reversibly signalled four-track approach viaduct / tunnel from Harlem, using three tracks in the tidal flow direction, one for the other. This works so long as you don't need to move many empty trains to/from out-of-town sidings for mid-day storage.
 

dutchflyer

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The Maschen goods yard south of Hamburg? But thats not really a main station. I somehow recall that when it was being opened-in the last century, it was heralded as the veru biggest such thing on german rails.
 

XAM2175

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When I was at Munich one evening, I think I counted about 23 tracks leading out from the main station when I crossed the bridge.

I was also amazed by the number of loco hauled trains being propelled out of the station at high speed towards the carriage sidings somewhere, with the movement being controlled by a shunter standing in the end gangway with a radio. Does anybody know if the DB shunting guys have special training similar to drivers in watching for signals or correct route pointwork? The trains were propelling amazingly fast.
Munich Hbf has always stood out for me on having such a complicated and long approach that there are actually two more stations (Hackerbrücke and Donnersbergerbrücke) in what is effectively the station throat :E

With regards to the shunting - I can't speak for certain but I have a recollection of reading that DB do have a staff role akin to "shunting driver" so it's entirely possible that they are taking signalled routes in and out of the station. Fairly sure as well that the default speed limit for shunting movements in Germany is 25 km/h, and that there are certain types semi-protected movements allowed at up to 40 km/h.

I always enjoyed watching the shunters work at Southern Cross station in Melbourne - they'd get about the yard and carriage sidings riding on the steps of their locomotive (usually a Y class), and then move rakes of carriages around by positioning themselves in open doorways along the rake and relaying hand signals to the driver, moving from one side of the carriage to the other as required to maintain visibility along the chain. Fairly sure they're still doing it this way now, although there are far fewer loco-hauled movements nowadays.

I suppose the old BW Hamburg-Altona depot deserves a mention, including a roundhouse with two overlapping turntables due to them increasing the size of them over the decades.

Okay, that's really quite cool.
 

Pakenhamtrain

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Fairly sure they're still doing it this way now, although there are far fewer loco-hauled movements nowadays.
That they are:
GVpdmV5.jpg


Melbourne Yard/Spencer Street would be up there from the ye old days:
They rearranged it into a hump yard in the 60s
In later years before closure there was a hump yard.
Spencer Street itself was more complex before the redevelopment into Southern Cross:
 
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Backroom_boy

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Completely different scale to most answers here, but the Lisbon tram (electrico) has some mind bending curves simultaneously on the x, y and z axis
 
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