Would this be valid?

[syrac]

I have been looking at an anytime day single ticket for two stations right next to each other on the same line, and have found that it is possible to set some "via" points for stations a fair bit further away (not ridiculously so however) on a few TOCs websites. Others though would not show any tickets for that via point, and trainsplit shows that the cheapest would be separate tickets from the origin to the via point, and from the via point to the destination station.

If I were to buy this ticket on one of the websites showing it as a route, would it be valid, even though it is a bit silly? What about if I used that ticket, but then broke my journey at that "via" point?

 

[transportphoto]

I’d avoid using such an obviously invalid ticket - the only time I’d risk such is with an advance ticket and with reservations on each and every train.

 

[Watershed]

I have been looking at an anytime day single ticket for two stations right next to each other on the same line, and have found that it is possible to set some "via" points for stations a fair bit further away (not ridiculously so however) on a few TOCs websites. Others though would not show any tickets for that via point, and trainsplit shows that the cheapest would be separate tickets from the origin to the via point, and from the via point to the destination station.

If I were to buy this ticket on one of the websites showing it as a route, would it be valid, even though it is a bit silly? What about if I used that ticket, but then broke my journey at that "via" point?

This kind of 'anomaly' can often arise in the case of journey defined as 'local' under the Routeing Guide (i.e. where there is a common Routeing Point). This is because you can use travel to and from the common Routeing Point, provided you do so on direct trains.

Most journey planners will offer itineraries in accordance with these rules. Some (such as the software behind TrainSplit) take a different interpretation of the rules and won't offer such itineraries if it is possible to change short of the common Routeing Point.

If you buy a ticket in conjunction with such an itinerary, you are entitled to travel in accordance with it. However both this, and especially breaking your journey at the "circuitous" via point, may well cause conflict in practice, as staff are rarely (if ever) trained on such principles as consumer and contract law and may reject the ticket for "being off route".

 

[syrac]

This kind of 'anomaly' can often arise in the case of journey defined as 'local' under the Routeing Guide (i.e. where there is a common Routeing Point). This is because you can use travel to and from the common Routeing Point, provided you do so on direct trains.

Most journey planners will offer itineraries in accordance with these rules. Some (such as the software behind TrainSplit) take a different interpretation of the rules and won't offer such itineraries if it is possible to change short of the common Routeing Point.

If you buy a ticket in conjunction with such an itinerary, you are entitled to travel in accordance with it. However both this, and especially breaking your journey at the "circuitous" via point, may well cause conflict in practice, as staff are rarely (if ever) trained on such principles as consumer and contract law and may reject the ticket for "being off route".

Ah, this makes sense - thank you.

 

[sonic2009]

It would be helpful if an indication of where these 2 stations may be located. Or if the individual wishes to disclose via a individual message, with yourself being a new member not sure if this facility is available straight away.

 

[m00036]

I think I'm right in saying that breaks of journey are normally prohibited if that routeing guide provision is used, even if the ticket otherwise allows a break of journey.

 

[Watershed]

I think I'm right in saying that breaks of journey are normally prohibited if that routeing guide provision is used, even if the ticket otherwise allows a break of journey.

Yes, although booking engines generally don't tell people why a particular itinerary has been offered, and just say "break of journey is permitted" if the ticket type is flexible.

 

[Paul Kelly]

This kind of 'anomaly' can often arise in the case of journey defined as 'local' under the Routeing Guide (i.e. where there is a common Routeing Point). This is because you can use travel to and from the common Routeing Point, provided you do so on direct trains.

Surely it is not as simple as this? The routeing guide says that you may not doubleback when availing of the common routeing point rule.

Most journey planners will offer itineraries in accordance with these rules. Some (such as the software behind TrainSplit) take a different interpretation of the rules and won't offer such itineraries if it is possible to change short of the common Routeing Point.

This sounds wrong to me. If you change short of the routeing point, then you are no longer on a permitted route because (as you say) you must take direct trains to and from the routeing point. Can you give an example?

 

[Watershed]

Surely it is not as simple as this? The routeing guide says that you may not doubleback when availing of the common routeing point rule.

Except it doesn't say this anywhere? Indeed, it gives a contrary example - Stratford-upon-Avon to Solihull - where it says that you cannot change at Tyseley, as this is neither the shortest route nor within 3 miles thereof, and (at the time) was not a common Routeing Point. It says you must double back and change at Birmingham.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yes I suppose this has all been done to death in the past, but Section F of the routeing guide is in my opinion not reliable or definitive enough to base an assessment of the compliance of journey planner implementations on... I was thinking more of Section A which strongly implies the common routeing point rule (while not specifically detailing it), and implies you may travel to and from the routeing point if it doesn't involve a doubleback (or if the doubleback is covered by an easement):

Common Routeing Points
If the origin and destination have a common routeing point, the permitted route is direct via the shortest distance from the origin to the destination over which a regular scheduled passenger train service operates. No doubling back (passing through the same station twice on a single journey) is allowed which may require customers to change trains short of the routeing point, unless an easement allows a longer alternative route.

This interpretation still allows useful itineraries such as Wanborough to North Camp via Guildford (which you can buy on TrainSplit).

 

[syrac]

For the two stations in particular I was looking at, it would give me routes via all but a couple of the other stations with the same routing point.