• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Wrong Railway Facts

Status
Not open for further replies.

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,631
Location
Gateway to the South West
An oft-repeated 'fact' concerns Brunel and Gooch deciding where to put Swindon works. The story is that one of them threw a sandwich and where it landed would be the chosen place. Now, that would have to be some throw! I suspect, but this is only speculation, that the story morphed out of the two gentlemen looking at a map; the sandwich being a convenient marker on the plan of what went where.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
11,755
Shall we wonder how correct the famous railway author O.S.Nock was in all his published works?
Are you suggesting that the occasional snippet of duff info may, from time to time, have inadvertently been included in his literary output? ;)
 

Lloyds siding

Member
Joined
3 Feb 2020
Messages
401
Location
Merseyside
Thanks for this. You have given me a place to start for more dabbling!


I've heard this too. It particularly related to one magazine that published a few things that were widely known to be incorrect, then people started to test their ability to separate fact from fiction.
The CEGB archives seem to be a bit scattered. The majority appear to be in the National Archive at Kew (or their other repositories), but some are held by the Institution of Engineering and Technology in Stevenage (but much on-line). A few years ago I was working at the 'Electricity' exhibition at the museum of Science and Industry in Manchester..and discovered that some CEGB archives were held there. Indeed, some of the visitors were ex-CEGB/National Grid employees who had come to see the excellent exhibition, and also access the archives.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,652
Location
Another planet...
Some medical students of my acquaintance claimed they could get access to the UL's stash without any difficulty (maybe for anatomy study, or as a preview of some of the 'I slipped and fell' stories they'd later encounter working late at night in A&E) - but I always took this with a grain of NaCl.
Why couldn't they find them in hedges like everyone else? :lol: <D
When magazines published pages of loco failures, unusual workings and the like, weren't there a number of correspondents who found it amusing to send in false, implausible reports to try to catch the editor out and sometimes succeeded?
That reminds me of "Trainspotting Live!" and the reports of a Pendolino at Wick (or whatever it was) that Peter Snow read out on-air!
 

Andy873

Member
Joined
23 Mar 2017
Messages
957
And it all leaves you wondering...

For those of you interested in Padiham power station, I now have conclusive proof one of the two units was indeed converted to oil firing.

Mike Clarke wrote a blow by blow account of the station's history / use, and I have also found a debate in the house of commons from the 1980's asking why stations like Padiham have not been converted back to just burning coal.

As I don't want to go too far away from the original topic, anyone who's interested in the power station please send me a PM and I will pass on the details.

It does prove (however only slightly railway related) another wrong "fact".
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,245
Location
Torbay
...Dingwell SSI was a RETB scheme...
That's correct, and there's nothing factually wrong with stating that Leamington Spa was the first SSI, providing the statement is qualified as you have done. But too often it isn't.
I suspect few outside the signalling profession and industry know there's an SSI in RETB installations. All the publicity centred on the wonderful new radio signalling aspect of the scheme. Leamington on the other hand was explicitly sold to the world as the wonderful new computer signalling. As I understand it, the RETB application has the same triple redundant hardware but runs a different main programme compared to the classic lineside signalling implementation.
 

6Gman

Established Member
Joined
1 May 2012
Messages
8,420
I've come across errors in books, such as a reference to the Edge Hill Light Railway being in the Liverpool area and the Severn Tunnel having broad gauge tracks. These come into the "howler" category but other errors are less easily spotted. Some are perpetuated and become accepted fact such as the date of Preston shed fire frequently quoted as 1961, when it was actually a year earlier. With regard to magazines, the problem is inadequate checking in the rush to be as up to date as possible and on the bookshelves before the competition.
I did once see a reference in a broadsheet newspaper to the Windsor Link being in Berkshire.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
However, technically there was a rail replacement bus running between Guildford and Wimbledon starting before 4 àm so that was the first service.
You're thinking from a calendar day perspective. A railway day starts at 04:00 and ends at 03:59, so the RRB actually left the day before and the tweet is correct.
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
11,755
You're thinking from a calendar day perspective. A railway day starts at 04:00 and ends at 03:59, so the RRB actually left the day before and the tweet is correct.
Is it not 0430 -> 0429 or is that for tickets? Happy to be corrected.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,068
Shall we wonder how correct the famous railway author O.S.Nock was in all his published works?
Or even if he wrote them all himself ... Cecil J Allen, no less, regularly commented that he had junior management staff at Westinghouse in Chippenham, where he was a director, ghosting for him, to add his name at the end.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,646
You're thinking from a calendar day perspective. A railway day starts at 04:00 and ends at 03:59, so the RRB actually left the day before and the tweet is correct.
I did think this but I thought the railway day was 12 am to 4.30 am the next morning.

After all, I didn't think one could buy an off-peak ticket after midnight.

Still it it's 4:30 am then the wrong fact was to say the last service was up to 7:30 pm on the strike day as the last service was in fact the following morning.

Of course, this only applies to those stations where the service started before 4.30 am. After that time the stations fall into the next day.

Hence no criticism of SWR but technically incorrect.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Or even if he wrote them all himself ... Cecil J Allen, no less, regularly commented that he had junior management staff at Westinghouse in Chippenham, where he was a director, ghosting for him, to add his name at the end.

I admit to not finding Cecil a sympathetic character; but this practice on the part of one widely acclaimed as a highly serious Christian, feels to me a little bit "off". Maybe if he both politely thanked the junior staff for their labours, and in some way rewarded them in, at least, what he deemed to be a practical manner ...
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,346
I admit to not finding Cecil a sympathetic character; but this practice on the part of one widely acclaimed as a highly serious Christian, feels to me a little bit "off". Maybe if he both politely thanked the junior staff for their labours, and in some way rewarded them in, at least, what he deemed to be a practical manner ...
Presumably he felt their reward was their salaries? He didn't expect them to write for him in their own time did he?
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Or maybe he reckoned that writing stuff for him, was good practice re their own careers -- I'm trying to be fair to the old... saint upon Earth ...
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
3,009
Location
The Fens
Or even if he wrote them all himself ... Cecil J Allen, no less, regularly commented that he had junior management staff at Westinghouse in Chippenham, where he was a director, ghosting for him, to add his name at the end.
That's just a 20th century version of a celeb having staff to write their tweets.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,068
I think some folk are mixing up C J Allen with OS Nock. It was Ossie Nock who worked for Westinghouse in Chippenham.
Possibly just the way it was written. CJA was the notable religious supporter, but Ian Allan himself found him tedious and pedantic (although a precise writer). I don't think CJA ever forgave Ossie for taking over his slot on loco running in The Railway Magazine - but CJA didn't have a leg to stand on with that, as he himself had suddenly quit his longstanding column there to start a complete rival in Allan's new Trains Illustrated (which later became Modern Railways), and The Railway Magazine asked Nock to thus take over.

It is indeed a wonder, of course, how Nock managed to hold down a senior directors' position at Westinghouse, do a lot of travelling round the country (presumably to suppliers etc) to record performance, edit and write the monthly loco performance column, and produce a huge range of bound books. As Nock rose to prominence at Westinghouse I also suspect that CJA, who retired from the LNER (I think on their last day in 1947) as a middle-ranking purchasing manager, must have felt overtaken in career terms, and likely salary, as well.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Possibly just the way it was written. CJA was the notable religious supporter, but Ian Allan himself found him tedious and pedantic (although a precise writer). I don't think CJA ever forgave Ossie for taking over his slot on loco running in The Railway Magazine - but CJA didn't have a leg to stand on with that, as he himself had suddenly quit his longstanding column there to start a complete rival in Allan's new Trains Illustrated (which later became Modern Railways), and The Railway Magazine asked Nock to thus take over.

(My bolding) -- hey, Cec ! isn't there an important section of the Lord's Prayer, that you were forgetting there? I'll admit that I dislike the bloke -- strikes me as having been irritatingly "up himself", and a bad advertisement for his faith.
 

Dr_Paul

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2013
Messages
1,358
It is indeed a wonder, of course, how Nock managed to hold down a senior directors' position at Westinghouse, do a lot of travelling round the country (presumably to suppliers etc) to record performance, edit and write the monthly loco performance column, and produce a huge range of bound books.
Perhaps we might investigate what other senior staff at Westinghouse did in respect of their working day? Having a doddle of a senior job wasn't unknown. For example, I was reading a book about the famous philosopher Isaiah Berlin, who was nominally a professor at Oxford, yet when one considers the amount of extramural activities and hobnobbing with the rich and famous he got up to, I started to wonder how much -- or how little, to be more accurate -- actual teaching work he did.
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,346
Perhaps we might investigate what other senior staff at Westinghouse did in respect of their working day? Having a doddle of a senior job wasn't unknown. For example, I was reading a book about the famous philosopher Isaiah Berlin, who was nominally a professor at Oxford, yet when one considers the amount of extramural activities and hobnobbing with the rich and famous he got up to, I started to wonder how much -- or how little, to be more accurate -- actual teaching work he did.
The modern terms are ''executive directors' who are involved with the day to day running of the company and 'non-executive directors' who aren't. The latter are there because they own a large proportion of the shares, can exert influence with the authorities or have special expertise, for example. They aren't expected to spend 40 hours a week working for the company.

In the academic world, my stepfather retained his professorship after retirement because he was the only one qualified to teach a particular course module. He only spent three weeks a year on it.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Good job CJA didn't work for the LMS, otherwise he might've been led into Trent station... (Sorry for the old joke).

New to me -- nice one ! Or worse still from his point of view: time-travel for him, back to attendance at the Council of Trent (Trento, Italy), 1545: at which the Catholic Church did its best, re those times, to clean its act up. CJA had a way of airing his religious prejudices and spites, where I feel they didn't belong -- for instance, in writings about rail-exploration of the French Pyrenees, where Lourdes is located: taking that as cue for gratuitously nasty asides about Catholic practices which displeased him. See here, chum -- there are times and places; and "all of them are not appropriate for everything". Uncharitable on my part, no doubt; but I don't like that guy.
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,395
Location
Up the creek
...I was reading a book about the famous philosopher Isaiah Berlin, who was nominally a professor at Oxford, yet when one considers the amount of extramural activities and hobnobbing with the rich and famous he got up to, I started to wonder how much -- or how little, to be more accurate -- actual teaching work he did.

Ah, but once you are a professor your mind should be attuned to higher things than teaching mere undergraduates. You should be contemplating the breadth of your subject and devoting time to pure intellectual research. You might occasionally give a lecture so that the lesser mortals do not forget your brilliance, or you might give tutorials to a few promising students who might themselves later become famous and pay due homage to your wise guidance. But you have got to the top and will stay there unless you start fumbling the secretaries.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,817
Location
Wilmslow
Yes, but "professor" is an honorific title granted by some institution and the criteria for its granting are of the institution's own making. In other words, "doctor" means that the holder of the title will have studied for and passed some reasonably meaningful PhD or DPhil postgraduate degree, but I've known many "professors" who don't have a postgraduate degree. It's made to sound like it's a step of higher achievement than an "entry level academic" and in some way it probably still is, but there are no rules about its award so it can be pretty meaningless also.
 

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
To say nothing of Dr. Ian C. Allen, specialist in rail photography in East Anglia in the steam era; and Allan Garraway, of British Railways and Welsh narrow gauge fame -- what is it with all these Allens / Allans, prominent in this hobby?

ETA: and how could I forget Peter Allen, high-management in ICI, which enabled him to see and write of rail and steam scenes all over the world, approx. 1950s era? -- there's got to be some kind of a "charm".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top