Yorkshire Tiger acquired by Transdev

[TheGrandWazoo]

Huddersfield to Greater Manchester via Hebden Bridge???

I thought that....

 

[Ken H]

Are there any Sunday/Bank Holiday DalesBus services from Yorkshire Tiger-land into Lancashire/North Yorkshire?

you could make a good Halifax-Keighley-Ilkley-Grassington route Maybe borrow a vintage bus from Kly Bus Museum for it!

 

[Bungle965]

Yorkshire Tiger-land into Lancashire/North Yorkshire?

Huddersfield to Greater Manchester via Hebden Bridge???

A service from Huddersfield-Hebden Bridge already exist, it's a tendered route and not all that frequent (900,901).
The journey time is fairly competitive between the train and the car, although by train you do have to change at Brighouse which isn't ideal.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With regards to people hoping for Transdev to operate fast Halifax or Huddersfield to Leeds buses, I really don't think it will happen. As @Deerfold has already alluded to, if it is such as good idea and demand exists someone would be running a service now. If Transdev does look to expand what is currently Yorkshire Tiger, my guess would be Huddersfield across the border into Lancashire / Greater Manchester via the Hebden bridge area.

Absolutely. The old Yorkshire Rider X36 usually spent a long time in traffic queues, meaning it was often only five or so minutes faster than the 503.

Tiger's Huddersfield operations have been the poor relation for literally decades, under NBC, Traction, Stagecoach, Centrebus and Arriva ownership. Why that is likely to suddenly change under Transdev, I remain to be convinced!

 

[RELL6L]

I travelled on a couple of Yorkshire Tiger buses in the Sowerby Bridge area, both Solos, on Friday. Clean, punctual, no complaints at all. One of the drivers refused to reverse about a bus length on a single track road and instead bullied a elderly driver in a car to reverse around 150m while aggressively following it and sounding off to the passengers about how 'it was illegal to reverse a bus' but that is just an individual. Following the tracker they all seem pretty reliable with few missed journeys. How profitable? - that's another question.

Much better than the horrible First Streelite on the 587 to Rochdale. Loud continuous rattle from the emergency exit, stomach-churning vibration when stationery but in gear and terribly slow. Do they have built in speed-limit controls or was it just the driver? We were 15 minutes late arriving at Rochdale for no reason I could see and had a long tailback of cars behind us on the scenic cross-country section approaching Littleborough. All the other 587s were B7RLEs but annoyingly not mine. Plenty other good things about the day though...

 

[Leeds1970]

@andy82 & @TheGrandWazoo I was not suggesting Transdev would/should run a Huddersfield to Manchester via Hebden Bridge service.

At the moment Yorkshire tiger and Transdev (in particular Keighley & District) mainly serve the north and north west of the county (west Yorks), so I was suggesting it would be more logical to link up services in those areas to those Transdev run in Greater Manchester and Lancashire, rather than push east into areas well served by Arriva/First.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

my guess would be Huddersfield across the border into Lancashire / Greater Manchester via the Hebden bridge area.

@andy82 & @TheGrandWazoo i was not suggesting Transdev would/should run a Huddersfield to Manchester via Hebden Bridge service
At the moment Yorkshire tiger and Transdev (in particular Keithley & district) mainly serve the north and north west of the county (west Yorks)
so i was suggesting it would be more logical to link up services in those area's to those Transdev run in GREATER Manchester and Lancashire rather than push east into area's well served by Arriva/First

Still don't know what you mean but you would anticipate that the Waterloo and Elland depots would become integral parts of Transdev.

 

[Deerfold]

@andy82 & @TheGrandWazoo i was not suggesting Transdev would/should run a Huddersfield to Manchester via Hebden Bridge service
At the moment Yorkshire tiger and Transdev (in particular Keithley & district) mainly serve the north and north west of the county (west Yorks)
so i was suggesting it would be more logical to link up services in those area's to those Transdev run in GREATER Manchester and Lancashire rather than push east into area's well served by Arriva/First

I can't think why people would think you were suggesting they'd go from Huddersfield to Greater Manchester and Lancashire via the Hebden Bridge area.

If Transdev does look to expand what is currently Yorkshire Tiger, my guess would be Huddersfield across the border into Lancashire / Greater Manchester via the Hebden bridge area.

Were you thinking they'd find a depot in the Hebden Bridge area?

 

[Simon75]

In addition to Elland and Waterloo depots, thought Tiger had more?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In addition to Elland and Waterloo depots, thought Tiger had more?

Idle had already closed with Transdev using it for Flyer services. Honley closed some years back

 

[woodhouse122]

It won't happen but a Huddersfield - Barnsley service would be nice to have again ,when Tracky had Waterloo garage there used to be a couple of services running between the 2 towns but now nothing (yes there is the train service, but that gets very busy now that Northern have dropped the service from a 3 car 144 to a 2 car 150 )

 

[tbtc]

It won't happen but a Huddersfield - Barnsley service would be nice to have again ,when Tracky had Waterloo garage there used to be a couple of services running between the 2 towns but now nothing (yes there is the train service, but that gets very busy now that Northern have dropped the service from a 3 car 144 to a 2 car 150 )

A three coach Pacer is 45m long (3x15) whilst a two coach 150 is 40m long (2x20) but the 3+2 seats on a 150 versus the space taken up by having an additional carriage end in the three catch 143 means they have pretty similar seating numbers (that said, I'd prefer a 143 over a 150, were it to be an option!)

However I do agree re the lack of Huddersfield - Barnsley services - there were a few routes from South Yorkshire into West Yorkshire that died a death of a thousand cuts - the X68 (Sheffield - Penistone - Huddersfield) became the 238/239 which went from having competition to having no company interested in it (later the X38/X39 in South Yorkshire - I think it retained the 239 number at the Huddersfield end but the gap from Denby Dale to Penistone became more pronounced with each set of service changes). IIRC there was even a period of an hourly Chesterfield - Sheffield - Penistone service in the days East Midlands extended the 50/55 beyond Sheffield.

The Penistone - Millhouses - Holmfirth - Huddersfield corridor was hourly (at least as far as Holmfirth - maybe the Huddersfield journeys weren't as often?) but has become a "two days a week" service (South Pennine - hourly on Thursday and Saturday - maybe that's more useful than a couple of journeys a day six days a week?).

The M68 was so popular on Sundays from Sheffield to Holmfirth that Stagecoach ran an hourly Sunday extension of the Sheffield - Stocksbridge 57 to Holmfirth for a period (these days, there's no even a Sunday service from Sheffield to Stocksbridge, yet alone through the Flouch etc!)

I forget the details, but there was a Barnsley - Clayton West - Huddersfield route too?

Now though, we have a 'reasonable' Barnsley - Penistone service and a 'reasonable' Huddersfield - Denby Dale service ('reasonable' without being 'great') but not a lot to bridge the gap - different PTEs means that there's no "unified" approach to it, which is a shame (whilst population density isn't great - and other rural routes in that neck of South Yorkshire have been significantly reduced - e.g. look what remains of the old 381/384 Barnsley - Stocksbridge service, once hourly either way round the circle - my feeling is that the county boundary has disproportionately affected routes around Denby Dale.

 

[Manclad83]

The Barnsley-Clayton West-Huddersfield was the 235 via Darton & Kexborough with the 236 via Cawthorne & Denny Dale.

Under Transdev, I can actually see a Barnsley-Huddersfield service. It should be an express (ish) service via Cawthorne, maybe using a high spec vehicle and running straight down Huddersfield Road out of Barnsley.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

For a great many years, Barnsley-Huddersfield was two services per hour M-Sat - aside from the 235 going on the "low" road through Kirkburton, and the 236 going the "top" way via Highburton (Far Dene off the A629 into Highburton was a hell of a slog uphill on an Olympian!), they shared a common route to Skelmanthorpe, then split with the 235 via Clayton West, Darton and Kexborough, while the 236 went via Denby Dale and Cawthorne. I fondly remember the low-height Metrobuses Tracky had (Waterloo had three from delivery, and gained three or four more of them over the years), which had so much more character than the Olympians that they worked alongside. VRTs were fairly swiftly removed from Waterloo (I don't remember any still being there after about 1990).

Things only changed - Tracky were, to put it mildly, "traditional" for perhaps too long - when Yorkshire Travel appeared out of nowhere with new, leased Volvo B6/Alexanders on a half-hourly 240 that also served Lepton to Clayton West, broadly otherwise via the 235 route. All of a sudden, Tracky bought Darts (three NC-bodied examples ex-dealer stock, and three nearly-new Plaxton-bodied examples that were new to South Yorkshire RT) and ran very similar routes, and frankly things were overbussed for too long.

The insular nature of WYPTE and SYPTE (like many such orgs funding transport, they aren't/weren't interested in funding beyond their boundaries) meant that cross-border services vanished quickly, despite the hinterlands around Denby Dale, for example, being closer and better connected to Penistone and even Sheffield than they ever were to Huddersfield. So the 234 (a clever idea, that, the 239 route to Penistone, then direct on the A633 to Dodworth into Barnsley) alongside the 239 to Penistone, and the 235 beyond Clayton and the 236 beyond Denby Dale all withered away.

That the now 233 (Huddersfield-Clayton West & Denby Dale) remains half-hourly, alongside the broadly hourly 83/84 down the Penistone Road through Shepley remain frankly is amazing, but perhaps Yorkshire Travel helped to kick into life better bus provision in the area. But does it need more than that? I'd be surprised. It's a relatively affluent area, south-east of Huddersfield, and getting more people out of their cars, especially with a well-used and well-defended train service from villages like Shepley and Denby Dale, might be a lot of work.

But I'll bet that Transdev take a look at that corridor early on - fresh branding and better vehicles, as they've proved elsewhere, can make the world of difference.

 

[RustySpoons]

Apologies for what may seem like a silly question, but is there anywhere currently where the services that Transdev will be taking over connect with existing Transdev services? Had a look on Tiger's website and can see Keighley as the only place on the 502.

 

[RELL6L]

The 502, as you say, which could do with co-ordinated timings with the 67 between Keighley and Denholme. Run it from the Keighley end and add on a 30 (or 90) minute round trip working in Halifax; then you can co-ordinate the timings both directions and have the routes inter-working at the Keighley end.

Otherwise I think just Rochdale on Sundays (YT 587).

I can see an attempt to close the gap between South and West Yorkshire where cross-boundary services have, as discussed above, virtually disappeared, although there is still the TM Travel 29 which comes into Holmfirth from Penistone 2 or 3 times a day (very scenic). This might be an opportunity for Transdev but I wouldn't expect any more than an hourly service from Huddersfield to Barnsley, possibly achieved by extending an existing route.

I can't see a big thrust on services into Great Manchester or Lancashire from the Halifax or Huddersfield areas. Either no passengers to be found (eg across the moors Ripponden to Oldham) or would provoke a reaction from First (eg the Todmorden main road corridor and/or to Rochdale or Burnley), which is not Transdev's style.

Possibly they could use Idle for some YT services or even run the airport services from Elland, and move the 502 in to Keighley. Maybe get some tendered work back in the Bradford area. But I don't see what other synergies or new business they are going for.

 

[Glenn1969]

Maybe they could take back some of the work like the Hebden Bridge and Todmorden minibus networks that were lost to TLC?

Keighley and Rochdale are the only places that touch existing Transdev territory right now

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I suspect this purchase has been made by Transdev for two reasons - Arriva appear keen to offload parts of their empire to raise cash, and Transdev saw it as an opportunity to consolidate their position in West Yorkshire and ensure someone else didn't end up on the verge of their territory, who might not be as friendly.

Linking up with existing operations may end up being a "nice to have", but in the meantime, it will offer a useful springboard in two large towns where the current major operator hasn't exactly been investing in particularly in recent years...

 

[Andyh82]

Maybe they could take back some of the work like the Hebden Bridge and Todmorden minibus networks that were lost to TLC?

Keighley and Rochdale are the only places that touch existing Transdev territory right now

Neither Yorkshire Tiger or Transdev have ever had the Hebden Bridge and Todmorden networks

Also when Transdev purchased Rosso people suggested they’d plug the gap between the 8 in Todmorden and B3 in Hebden Bridge, but it’s never happened, so it’s clear that Transdev aren’t interested in joining the dots just to look nice on a map

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Absolutely. The old Yorkshire Rider X36 usually spent a long time in traffic queues, meaning it was often only five or so minutes faster than the 503.

Tiger's Huddersfield operations have been the poor relation for literally decades, under NBC, Traction, Stagecoach, Centrebus and Arriva ownership. Why that is likely to suddenly change under Transdev, I remain to be convinced!

I can see the Huddersfield operations being reduced much further under Transdev with services out of Waterloo cut such as services 83/83A/84 and 84A becoming a 234 and 235 Denby Dale circular, the 360 and 327A being merged to run from Brackenhall to HRI, the Meltham's scrubbed, the Scapegoat Hill 303/304 and the Ashenhurst 358 merged to run as one cross-Hudderfield service, the 356 Longwood circular and the Free Town Bus contract issused to someone else. This leaves the 396 to Wilberlee, but as its two Monday to Saturday evening journeys and four returns on Sunday's, I suppose First Huddersfield could extend the 181 to cover the current 396 workings.

I'm not saying that this will happen, its pure speculation but it's likely.

A service from Huddersfield-Hebden Bridge already exist, it's a tendered route and not all that frequent (900,901).
The journey time is fairly competitive between the train and the car, although by train you do have to change at Brighouse which isn't ideal.

Once the works at Mythomroyd are completed then the 900 / 901 should revert to the previous timetable of 55 minute journey times. Shame there's no early morning service from Huddersfield (i.e something at around 0530 and 0730) and an evening service (i.e a bus from Huddersfield at 1745 to Hebden Bridge and a bus from Hebden Bridge at 1900 to Huddersfield) on the 901, as its a handy shortcut to get to the Calder Valley from Huddersfield.

@andy82 & @TheGrandWazoo I was not suggesting Transdev would/should run a Huddersfield to Manchester via Hebden Bridge service.

At the moment Yorkshire tiger and Transdev (in particular Keighley & District) mainly serve the north and north west of the county (west Yorks), so I was suggesting it would be more logical to link up services in those areas to those Transdev run in Greater Manchester and Lancashire, rather than push east into areas well served by Arriva/First.

My idea for Transdev to run a Queensbury to Leeds service via Illingworth, Halifax, Elland, Brighouse and White Rose Centre would be down to recreating the old M62 and X80 services but with more journeys and it gives Lord Hornby that chance to scream its amazing. The link into Leeds is only there to allow connections on to other Transdev services, plus it could in a way act as a CityZap 2 from the ashes.

Maybe they could take back some of the work like the Hebden Bridge and Todmorden minibus networks that were lost to TLC?

Keighley and Rochdale are the only places that touch existing Transdev territory right now

The Todmorden and Hebden Bridge minibus networks were operated by First (out of Millwood depot) before Tyrer Tours took over who in 2012 lost the contract as journeys were missed or ran late, First temporarily took the contract back before TLC was awarded the contract to run them.

 

[Andyh82]

I can see the Huddersfield operations being reduced much further under Transdev with services out of Waterloo cut such as services 83/83A/84 and 84A becoming a 234 and 235 Denby Dale circular, the 360 and 327A being merged to run from Brackenhall to HRI, the Meltham's scrubbed, the Scapegoat Hill 303/304 and the Ashenhurst 358 merged to run as one cross-Hudderfield service, the 356 Longwood circular and the Free Town Bus contract issused to someone else. This leaves the 396 to Wilberlee, but as its two Monday to Saturday evening journeys and four returns on Sunday's, I suppose First Huddersfield could extend the 181 to cover the current 396 workings.

I'm not saying that this will happen, its pure speculation but it's likely.

Most of those are Metro tenders, what makes you think Transdev would want to give them up?

Most of your suggestions don’t make sense, you are saying there will be big reductions, but then all you’ve suggested is merging two services together or changing the service number.

Merging the 303/304 which is an all day tender with the 358 which is an evening and Sunday tender as a through bus, saving no actual vehicles is a very strange suggestion.

Also Queensbury to the White Rose Centre via that roundabout route, literally departing Queensbury and heading in the opposite direction? You could probably walk to the White Rose as the crow flies quicker.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Most of those are Metro tenders, what makes you think Transdev would want to give them up?

Most of your suggestions don’t make sense, you are saying there will be big reductions, but then all you’ve suggested is merging two services together or changing the service number.

Merging the 303/304 which is an all day tender with the 358 which is an evening and Sunday tender as a through bus, saving no actual vehicles is a very strange suggestion.

Also Queensbury to the White Rose Centre via that roundabout route, literally departing Queensbury and heading in the opposite direction? You could probably walk to the White Rose as the crow flies quicker.

Transdev mostly does commercial work, I just cannot see them wanting to run as many tenders as Yorkshire Tiger currently runs - hence why I did see them merging routes together to cut down on the tender costs, plus it would mean the knackered Solo's can finally be sent to PVS Barnsley.

As with the 358, I did think that Tiger ran it all day but at least you've corrected me.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Transdev mostly does commercial work, I just cannot see them wanting to run as many tenders as Yorkshire Tiger currently runs - hence why I did see them merging routes together to cut down on the tender costs, plus it would mean the knackered Solo's can finally be sent to PVS Barnsley.

As with the 358, I did think that Tiger ran it all day but at least you've corrected me.

So they’ve bought it, and now they’re immediately going to close a big chunk of it down? Why would they do that.....?

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

If Transdev introduced a Halifax to Huddersfield express service running at a fairly decent frequency, using good quality buses (ie comfortable, branded, clean interiors with USB sockets, wifi etc...)... then surely there's a market for that when you look at what the competition is offering. Clapped out Enviros/ B7TLs/ B9TLs, with often filthy interiors.

 

[darloscott]

About 90% of what Tiger does is tendered work for Metro, why would Transdev want to give that up?!
I think this is a tactical purchase as it gives them a low cost base operator to compete with in Yorkshire. They’re also able to limit the size of any competitors (CT Plus for example...) as well as covering all bases should WY go down the franchising route

 

[Deerfold]

Transdev mostly does commercial work, I just cannot see them wanting to run as many tenders as Yorkshire Tiger currently runs - hence why I did see them merging routes together to cut down on the tender costs, plus it would mean the knackered Solo's can finally be sent to PVS Barnsley.

As with the 358, I did think that Tiger ran it all day but at least you've corrected me.

Transdev have been competing hard for tenders recently, winning the Keighley tenders back (except the 903, which hasn't come up yet), most of the Otley routes, the airport routes and just recently a lot of Lancashire routes

 

[Bigman]

How about an express service from Huddersfield to Leeds Bradford Airport, via Elland, Halifax, Dudley Hill, Apperley Bridge?

 

[Deerfold]

How about an express service from Huddersfield to Leeds Bradford Airport, via Elland, Halifax, Dudley Hill, Apperley Bridge?

At the moment the airport has to subsidise the services to Leeds, Bradford and Otley that serve it. I can't see one from Huddersfield and Halifax being commercially viable. Especially as the airport is not at its best at the moment and there's about to be huge works on the Elland bypass.

 

[Bigman]

At the moment the airport has to subsidise the services to Leeds, Bradford and Otley that serve it. I can't see one from Huddersfield and Halifax being commercially viable. Especially as the airport is not at it's best at the moment and there's about to be huge works on the Elland bypass.

So perhaps one for the back burner then.

 

[wibble1989]

Not wanting to be pessimistic but I assume their priority would be to retain the tenders in Halifax and Huddersfield which, as mentioned, is 90% of their work and makes the depots viable. If they retain them that security may give them the confidence to explore new commercial routes. As mentioned, competing with other operators isn't really there game - and I hope it doesn't to be honest in the current climate.