“On specified trains and connections only”

[trainclueless]

Hello all, I am here with another question

I am buying a return ticket from Stevenage to Swindon. My journey will be the following:
Stevenage - Farringdon (Thameslink)
Farringdon - Paddington (TFL)
Paddington - Swindon (GWR)

The ticket is an advanced single with time specified for both GWR and Thameslink leg. On my return trip, I know that I have to get on the specific train on my ticket for the GWR Swindon to Paddington leg. I also have a time stated for the Thameslink leg on my ticket but from my experience these trains are normally either peak or off peak eg if I just get a normal ticket from Farringdon to Stevenage, I can travel on any train within the same fare type.

Asking because I would like to break my journey and have a meal in London before getting on my train in Farringdon, which would mean I won’t be able to make the train specified on my ticket. Will this get me into trouble?

Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Break of journey is not permitted on Advances. There is a reasonable chance you would get away with taking a different train on a non-reserved segment, however the best advice is to stick to the trains in your itinerary on Advances as otherwise there's always at least some risk of coming unstuck, even if on the "connections" part where any (unreservable, theoretically) train is allowed.

I do however seem to recall at least some Thameslink services are now "reservable" so you must travel on that train (but see posts below regarding a possible easement). I checked a random Thameslink from Stevenage and it showed "reservations available" which would usually mean it'll be a booked train on the Advance.

If the meal is important, then while ending short also isn't technically allowed it isn't really enforceable if you do so at a terminus, so what you could do is abandon the Advance at Paddington and purchase a new ticket to Stevenage to complete your journey. Or split in London. Or as @jfollows says below, put in a longer change time (officially break of journey is not permitted but this is similarly hard to enforce if that's your itinerary).

 

[jfollows]

You can manipulate the purchase to put you on a later train for the last leg to give you time for a meal in London.

 

[JonathanH]

Asking because I would like to break my journey and have a meal in London before getting on my train in Farringdon, which would mean I won’t be able to make the train specified on my ticket. Will this get me into trouble?

While there is apparently an unpublished easement - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/setting-gates-to-reject-tickets-thameslink.265943/#post-6722035 - which says that any GTR service can be used for the 'connections' part of a journey where a reservation is held for a specific train, the no break of journey restriction implies that you should only catch a train which runs earlier than the connection, rather than one which implies you have delayed that journey (other than in disruption).

 

[trainclueless]

Hi all, thanks for this - i can’t work out how to quote and reply properly!

I certainly have been a bit flexible with the non-reserved segment on Thameslink so I won’t do this anymore in case I’ll get fined (eg I usually complete the tube journey between Paddington and Farringdon quicker than the time allocated so could always jump on an earlier train).

The Thameslink journey I take is usually peak/off peak which means I can just go on any train, but I think maybe that’s because I’m buying the ticket on the day wherelse I am now buying ticket to travel on a future date (hence it’ll be reservable)

Will look into delaying the returning GTR leg a bit to see if I could squeeze the dinner in. Or abandoning trip and buy a new ticket to go to Stevenage as suggested.

To add, sometimes on my outbound trip I also leave Stevenage on the train before the one on my ticket because I am super nervous about any delays in London which would mean missing the train to Swindon in time for work. Will also not do that anymore….

 

[Bletchleyite]

To add, sometimes on my outbound trip I also leave Stevenage on the train before the one on my ticket because I am super nervous about any delays in London which would mean missing the train to Swindon in time for work. Will also not do that anymore….

This is a perfect case for just asking the site you book with to increase the connection time - it's not break of journey (which isn't allowed on an Advance) it's wanting more time to ensure a connection is made. I do that all the time because I prefer to use the stopping LNR trains from Bletchley to Euston than the fasts as the stoppers are generally less crowded and more punctual, you can force that by fiddling about a bit (or on some planners insisting the plan calls somewhere only the stoppers serve). You should be able to add extra connection time on any booking site, but if yours won't do that (some of the apps are a bit basic if you use those) find a better one

 

[trainclueless]

Thanks @Bletchleyite - fiddling with a corporate booking service so hopefully it’s a bit more intuitive than some apps! (Not really….. )

 

[redreni]

Advances that include an "& connections" portion used to be a great option back when no TOC ever enforced the requirement to stick to your booked itinerary on the local stopping services.

These days I find myself increasingly looking to buy separate tickets where possible: an advance for the main rump of the journey (which would be significantly more expensive if done on a flexible ticket), and a flexible ticket or tickets for the local connections.

So for example, if doing this same journey again, it's maybe worth checking to see what it would cost to get a flexible ticket (period return or two singles) for the Stevenage to Reading portion, then advance singles from Reading to Swindon and back. If you can do that at a similar cost to the "& connections" advance then you free yourself from the break of journey restrictions up until Reading on the outbound leg and from Reading onwards on the return.

(The GTR easement is also worth knowing about if you don't want to break your journey and just want flexibility to get the first train that comes along, even if it's earlier than the train on your itinerary).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do watch out though that some argue that if your journey isn't contiguous the usual protections (and through Delay Repay) may not apply. In principle they still do (nothing anywhere specifically says they don't), but some staff won't be helpful over it if they are ones who think otherwise. If you select the option to leave a gap in central London and use contactless for that, Trainsplit warns (for example)...

It's worth being aware of the fact that the delay compensation situation and entitlement to catch next-available-trains (if you hold an Advance ticket and miss your intended service due to a tube delay) is less clear if you decide to enable this option. Some people claim that you’re no longer covered for delays across London if you do this. We don’t agree, but it’s a grey area and it wouldn't be right if we didn't warn you first about the risk.

Excluding cross-London fares

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get the best value through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

 

[redreni]

Do watch out though that some argue that if your journey isn't contiguous the usual protections (and through Delay Repay) may not apply. In principle they still do (nothing anywhere specifically says they don't), but some staff won't be helpful over it if they are ones who think otherwise. If you select the option to leave a gap in central London and use contactless for that, Trainsplit warns (for example)...

Excluding cross-London fares

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get the best value through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

Maybe a new advanced journey planner option would be good?

Rather than having to specify fixed time or flexible for the whole journey, where the user has specified via points, allow them to select either fixed time or flexible individually for each segment (e.g. flexible from the origin to the first via point, fixed time from the first via point to the second via point, flexible from the second via point to the destination). I would certainly find such a feature very useful.

As it is, I sometimes have to add journey segments to the basket separately (making a suitable donation in lieu of any share of saving fee thus avoided if it's a split I found on Trainsplit, though this normally doesn't apply as I'm splitting to gain flexibility rather than to save money overall), so while I will still take a screengrab or print-out of a valid itinerary for the through journey, it won't be (and can't be) the itinerary against which the tickets were issued.

 

[yorkie]

Our journey planner allows you to specify additional interchange time.

But please note that break of journey is not permitted on Advance fares; having a meal at King's Cross or Paddington would be fine, however; there are plenty of places within these stations which serve food and this does not constitute a break of journey.