Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[fgwrich]

And I must say that that thing on the front of the Switch buses makes them look absolutely hideous.

I wasn't sure what you were talking about at first until I saw that! Why have they made an already fairly unattractive vehicle look bulbous and angry?

1018 (YJ73BWG) - Transport UK Route 315 - Royal Circus

E5-destined 1018 is seen at Royal Circus nearing the end of its trip to West Norwood on route 315. I believe this and 1017 transferred from QB to free up buses for the recently acquired S3.

www.flickr.com

Transport UK London Bus - 1019 | YJ73BWH

Switch Mobility Metrocity EV

www.flickr.com

 

[GusB]

I wasn't sure what you were talking about at first until I saw that! Why have they made an already fairly unattractive vehicle look bulbous and angry?

1018 (YJ73BWG) - Transport UK Route 315 - Royal Circus

E5-destined 1018 is seen at Royal Circus nearing the end of its trip to West Norwood on route 315. I believe this and 1017 transferred from QB to free up buses for the recently acquired S3.

www.flickr.com

Transport UK London Bus - 1019 | YJ73BWH

Switch Mobility Metrocity EV

www.flickr.com

That's an AtroCity!

 

[507021]

I'll raise your AtroCity with MonstroCity. What a hideous design.

 

[Mikey C]

That reminds me of proboscis monkey

 

[Eyersey468]

That's an AtroCity!

We see them parked up in Abellio and I agree they look awful, though I suppose it has every right to be angry with how it looks

 

[joieman]

We see them parked up in Abellio and I agree they look awful, though I suppose it has every right to be angry with how it looks

Agreed

 

[Edvid]

The Element 2 demonstrator has arrived in the UK.

Friends of the PSV Circle | Four of the Custom Denning Element electric bus from Australia has finally landed in the UK. | Facebook

Four of the Custom Denning Element electric bus from Australia has finally landed in the UK.

www.facebook.com

 

[Bornin1980s]

Something I've long wondered, do Volvo make chassis in Sweden, send them to MCV in Egypt for bodying, then ship the complete vehicle back to Europe? How does this make sense?

 

[37114]

Something I've long wondered, do Volvo make chassis in Sweden, send them to MCV in Egypt for bodying, then ship the complete vehicle back to Europe? How does this make sense?

Correct. There are economies of scale from Volvo as they are a much larger producer on terms of number of vehicles made than our domestic manufacturers which allows them to spread the fixed cost of development,
the factory etc over more vehicles. Likewise labour in Egypt is much cheaper than UK and body production is labour intensive. Yes there are shipping cost but these are offset by the above benefits. International shipping is cheaper than you would think...

 

[Bornin1980s]

]]

Correct. There are economies of scale from Volvo as they are a much larger producer on terms of number of vehicles made than our domestic manufacturers which allows them to spread the fixed cost of development,
the factory etc over more vehicles. Likewise labour in Egypt is much cheaper than UK and body production is labour intensive. Yes there are shipping cost but these are offset by the above benefits. International shipping is cheaper than you would think...

Do they use MCV bodies for their native Sweden?

 

[Goldfish62]

]]

Do they use MCV bodies for their native Sweden?

Looks to be the case now.

 

[Worm]

I just noticed the 24 plate diesel Solos in GM have the traditional Optare steering wheel but have Iveco emblazoned instead of an Optare badge.

 

[90019]

I just noticed the 24 plate diesel Solos in GM have the traditional Optare steering wheel but have Iveco emblazoned instead of an Optare badge.

The steering wheel Optare use was originally an Iveco design from the early 90s.
Presumably they couldn't get hold of enough Optare ones and had to use Iveco branded ones instead.

 

[PG]

The steering wheel Optare use was originally an Iveco design from the early 90s.
Presumably they couldn't get hold of enough Optare ones and had to use Iveco branded ones instead.

Or a sign of a company in trouble...?

The original MCW Metrorider steering wheel had a Ford part number underneath the MCW badge.

 

[darylyates17]

The steering wheel Optare use was originally an Iveco design from the early 90s.
Presumably they couldn't get hold of enough Optare ones and had to use Iveco branded ones instead.

Noticed a few of the Arriva SRs in St Helens have had Iveco badged steering wheels replace the original Optare badged ones presuming it’s the same reason.

 

[90019]

Noticed a few of the Arriva SRs in St Helens have had Iveco badged steering wheels replace the original Optare badged ones presuming it’s the same reason.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's easier and/or cheaper to get hold of an Iveco wheel than an Optare one.

 

[Mikey C]

Is the Solo the only Optare badged product still being made? I can't imagine Optare/Switch selling many other diesel models now.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is the Solo the only Optare badged product still being made? I can't imagine Optare/Switch selling many other diesel models now.

I'd imagine if a large enough order was committed they probably would make a diesel Metrocity or a diesel Metrodecker. However given sales of the diesel Metrodecker when it was offered i'd argue there's a higher chance of Optare bringing back the Alero...

In theory the revised Cummins/Allison driveline in the new Solo can easily be adapted to the Metrocity as it is essentially just a door forward Solo - as was the Versa.

 

[MotCO]

Is the Solo the only Optare badged product still being made? I can't imagine Optare/Switch selling many other diesel models now.

Could you imagine a steering wheel with 'Switch' in the middle of it? Drivers will try pushing it, turning it etc to see what the switch was for .

 

[Bornin1980s]

Yes, what steering wheel is used on the Switch branded electric Solos?

 

[Edvid]

Three Enviro100AEVs have been ordered for an autonomous vehicle project in Cambridge.

Enviro100AEV autonomous trio set for Cambridge Connector - routeone

Alexander Dennis will supply three Enviro100AEV battery-electric autonomous buses to the Cambridge Connector consortium.

www.route-one.net

Alexander Dennis will supply three Enviro100AEV battery-electric autonomous buses to the Cambridge Connector consortium, of which it is now a member alongside parties including technology company Fusion Processing and operator Stagecoach.

The Enviro100AEVs will be part of a four-strong fleet delivering services in Cambridge under the project. The three bus industry partners are already working together on the CAVForth autonomous undertaking in Scotland, for which an Enviro100AEV has been ordered for use on the CAVForth2 second stage.

Connector will build on that joint expertise and other experience to adapt the vehicle and its technology for services at the Cambridge Biomedical Campus. The Enviro100AEV fleet will be built later in 2024. Service entry is expected in 2025 following testing and training, with “safety drivers” to be provided for onboard supervision.

Lead party for the consortium is the Greater Cambridge Partnership, with other members including dRISK, Gamma Energy, and IPG Automotive. Part funding comes from the Centre for Connected and Autonomous Vehicles.

Alexander Dennis Group Engineering Director Chris Gall says that the manufacturer is “delighted” to have been chosen to join the Connector consortium with the Enviro100AEV.

“This is a fantastic opportunity to further the development of this technology with our partners as we continue to explore use cases where autonomous buses can improve operational efficiency and add flexibility to transport networks,” he continues.

Adds Fusion Processing CEO Jim Hutchinson: “Our CAVStar Automated Drive System will provide the sensors, control modules and software that will allow the project vehicles to drive autonomously on the Cambridge routes, showcasing a safe and efficient new type of public transport system.”

 

[Volvodart]

China’s BYD nears deal to supply London’s electric double decker buses

China's BYD nears deal to supply London's electric double decker buses

Chinese automaker BYD is closing in on a deal that would see it supply all-electric double decker buses in London.

www.cityam.com

Rapidly expanding Chinese automaker BYD is close to a deal that would see it supply all-electric double decker buses in London.

Transport giant Go-Ahead Group is set to award the Shenzhen-based firm a contract to build more than 100 of the vehicles at around £400,000 each and £100,000 cheaper than its UK competitors, sources told the Sunday Times.

The decision has been given the green light by Transport for London (TfL), which is chaired by Mayor Sadiq Khan. BYD previously partnered with competitor Alexander Dennis and has produced hundreds of electric double decker buses for Go-Ahead.

The firm is one of a slew of Chinese automakers rapidly expanding on the European continent, offering electric vehicles (EVs) at cut throat prices. It is backed by Warren Buffet and earlier this year, overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla to take the top spot in global EV sales for the first time.


But the new deal could raise eyebrows given BYD has faced accusations from human rights groups that metals in its supply chains were made using Uyghur forced labour.

The United Nations in 2021 wrote to BYD stating it had “received information” the company may be involved through its supply chain “in alleged forced labour, arbitrary detention and trafficking of Uyghur [muslims] and other minority workers.”

Tom Cunnington, head of bus business development at TfL, said: “We have been assured by the manufacturer that no unethical practices have taken place and would act immediately if provided with evidence to the contrary.

“TfL is a member of the Electronics Watch Low-Emission Vehicle Programme, working to apply the worker-driven monitoring model of Electonics Watch to the electric vehicle market.


“All bus companies have individual robust ethical and sustainability policies that ensure the highest standards are met on the environment and workers’ rights.”

BYD and Go-Ahead Group did not respond to a City A.M. request for comment.

Speaking to the Sunday Times, former conservative party leader Sir Ian Duncan Smith, said: “We’ve yet again gone to China to build buses. What is the matter with our domestic production?

“These are iconic, British London buses. Why is it that we simply do not look for a contractor based, if not in the UK, then certainly in Europe

Some more on the new bus here:-

BYD aims to replace Routemaster with 400-mile EV London bus | Autocar

The BD11 has a battery capacity of 532kWh - the largest of any commercial EV currently available in the UK

www.autocar.co.uk

BYD aims to replace Routemaster with 400-mile EV London bus
The BD11 has a battery capacity of 532kWh - the largest of any commercial EV currently available in the UK


The new BYD BD11 double-decker bus is tipped to replace London's Routemaster with a range of more than 400 miles and high levels of passenger comfort.

Launched today at the London Bus Museum, the Chinese firm's latest electric bus arrives 11 years after it first launched a bus in the UK and shortly after it delivered its 1800th bus here. Its fleet has now racked up more than 18 million miles in service.


The BD11 has a total battery capacity of 532kWh - the largest of any electric commercial vehicle currently available in the UK.


Usable capacity is pegged at 457kWh, and although BYD has yet to confirm a range, it said the bus will travel more than 0.9 miles per kWh, suggesting a usable range of more than 400 miles.



BYD touts the proven safety and durability credentials of its trademark Blade battery technology (as also deployed in its electric cars) as a key factor in the BD11's appeal, suggesting it can remain in operation for between 12 and 20 years.

The fact that the company produces its batteries entirely in-house means that refurbishing the driveline of the BD11 will be much cheaper and more viable than if it had used a pack from a third-party supplier.

The battery is a structural component of BYD's new e-Platform 3.0 commercial vehicle platform, which has positive implications for ride comfort and rigidity, BYD said.

Other highlights of the platform include in-wheel motors – which maximise cabin space and help to facilitate an 8.0-metre turning radius – and standard-fit active suspension.


Charging is possible at up to 500kW via a pantograph (overhead) connection, but conventional ports are fitted for conventional rapid charging in depots and at public stations - with the possibility to connect more than one charger at a time to boost speed.

BYD remains tight-lipped on precise commercial objectives and volume projections, given the sensitivities around public transport tendering processes, but BYD UK's commercial vehicle managing director Frank Thorpe said he "hopes" it can replace Wrightbus's New Routemaster as the default London bus.

That 13-year old hybrid double-decker – commonly known as the Boris Bus, in reference to Boris Johnson, who backed the project while serving as mayor of London – ended production in 2017 and is due to be phased out over the coming years in line with the city's goal to have an all-electric bus fleet by 2030.

"We genuinely believe it's a game-changing product in terms of its efficiency, safety and commercial appeal. We believe it's going to be significant," said Thorpe.



He stopped short of giving any sales predictions but said: "We've had a fantastic reaction from operators and stakeholders – the Department for Transport, Transport for London – and we're now going to prove what we say.

"That's the key: we can say all sorts, but we've got to prove that is the best bus for the UK public, taxpayers and stakeholders."

The BD11 will arrive as a double-decker in the third quarter of 2024. A single-decker will follow a few months later and then a 'provincial' double-decker with a lower roof will land towards the end of 2025.


The BD11 has been revealed just as the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has predicted the "UK's bus market could be the first vehicle sector to decarbonise".

The SMMT said more than 40% of the UK's single- and double-deckers are now zero-emission and "buses are leading Britain's race to transport decarbonisation as Europe's biggest market for the very greenest road passenger vehicles".

However, it noted, more than half of all electric buses are being delivered to London, despite the fact that the capital accounts for less than a sixth of the UK's bus market.



It said: "The benefits, from improved local air quality and reduced noise pollution to a more enjoyable passenger experience, are unevenly distributed."

The SMMT has called for greater support for fleets of all sizes to go electric – a challenge it said is made particularly difficult by the tight operating margins in this sector and the fact that passenger numbers fell sharply when the Covid pandemic hit in 2020.

Electric buses are also considerably more expensive to buy than their combustion-powered alternatives, the SMMT noted.

It hasn't yet been confirmed how much the BD11 will cost operators, but recent reports suggest London's Go-Ahead transport group is set to award BYD a contract to build more than 100 buses at around £400,000 each - which is said to be around £100,000 cheaper than UK competitors' buses.

BYD has already supplied buses to Go-Ahead, working in partnership with British manufacturer Alexander Dennis, but now operates independently and will ship the buses in from China.

However, Thorpe told Autocar that around 34% of the components used in the BD11 are sourced from the EU

 

[Mikey C]

Autocar is an unusual source for a bus story perhaps, but BYD today unveiled their new double decker over here.

The BD11 has a total battery capacity of upto 532kWh - the largest of any electric commercial vehicle currently available in the UK.
Usable capacity is pegged at 457kWh, and although BYD has yet to confirm a range, it said the bus will travel more than 0.9 miles per kWh, suggesting a usable range of more than 400 miles. But as with its other electric buses, the BD11 will use a modular battery system so operators can alter it to fit the use profile of the vehicle. Most London buses between 100 and 200 miles a day.

BYD aims to replace Routemaster with 400-mile EV London bus | Autocar

The BD11 has a battery capacity of up to 532kWh - the largest of any commercial EV currently available in the UK

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[PG]

China’s BYD nears deal to supply London’s electric double decker buses

China's BYD nears deal to supply London's electric double decker buses

Chinese automaker BYD is closing in on a deal that would see it supply all-electric double decker buses in London.

www.cityam.com

Speaking to the Sunday Times, former conservative party leader Sir Ian Duncan Smith, said: “We’ve yet again gone to China to build buses. What is the matter with our domestic production?

“These are iconic, British London buses. Why is it that we simply do not look for a contractor based, if not in the UK, then certainly in Europe

I assume Sir IDS isn't a Go-Ahead shareholder? So much for the free market economy, presumably he was aghast at all the vehicles AD supplied to Hong Kong over the decades...

 

[Richard Scott]

I assume Sir IDS isn't a Go-Ahead shareholder? So much for the free market economy, presumably he was aghast at all the vehicles AD supplied to Hong Kong over the decades...

He does have a point, we go on about green credentials then buy vehicles from one of the world's biggest polluters, increase our trade deficit and reduce jobs in our own country. Then people will moan that politicising don't support our industry.

 

[Goldfish62]

He does have a point, we go on about green credentials then buy vehicles from one of the world's biggest polluters, increase our trade deficit and reduce jobs in our own country. Then people will moan that politicising don't support our industry.

He doesn't really. He and his ilk have been going on about trading with the other side of the planet rather than countries on our doorstep. Now he's getting exactly what he wanted.

Also, just to point out, ADL and Wright's are major exporters of buses to Hong Kong, itself a part of China.

 

[Richard Scott]

He doesn't really. He and his ilk have been going on about trading with the other side of the planet rather than countries on our doorstep. Now he's getting exactly what he wanted.

Also, just to point out, ADL and Wright's are major exporters of buses to Hong Kong, itself a part of China.

I know they do but that isn't the point. We have perfectly decent manufacturers in the UK rather than boosting China's already big economy with the associated increase in their emissions that brings.

 

[Goldfish62]

I know they do but that isn't the point. We have perfectly decent manufacturers in the UK rather than boosting China's already big economy with the associated increase in their emissions that brings.

Do you always ensure everything you buy is British-made? Whether you do or not most people buy what's best value for them. Why should operators be any different? In fact it's even more important for operators given that vehicles are such a major investment and the commercial risks involved.

Wrightbus have full order books for what seem to be excellent products (and 5 orders for Germany). ADL would appear have some work to do given the lacklustre orders for their EVs so far (which is rather worrying). And the less said about Switch the better.

It's not the job of operators to prop up British manufacturing. That's the role of government. That was supposed to be one of the ever-elusive Brexit benefits.

 

[cnjb8]

Do you always ensure everything you buy is British-made? Whether you do or not most people buy what's best value for them. Why should operators be any different? In fact it's even more important for operators given that vehicles are such a major investment and the commercial risks involved.

Wrightbus have full order books for what seem to be excellent products (and 5 orders for Germany). ADL would appear have some work to do given the lacklustre orders for their EVs so far (which is rather worrying). And the less said about Switch the better.

It's not the job of operators to prop up British manufacturing. That's the role of government. That was supposed to be one of the ever-elusive Brexit benefits.

To be fair, I think orders for ADL EVs will pick up when operators start placing orders with the ZEBRA 2 money soon

 

[Mikey C]

And with Volvos having Egyptian bodywork now, they're no different really.