Prosecution

[lholden]

Hello

I have recently got caught without a ticket and it is my second time in 6 months so i am going to receive a prosecution letter.

Will i always be prosecuted or will i be able to plea and pay my fare plus a fine? If i do get prosecuted it is going to ruin my career and plans so any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@lholden. Welcome to the forum. That's not really much to go on. In order for the forum to provide more meaningful general advice, please could you provide some additional information, as per the following thread...

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Many members will try to assist you, but please bear in mind the following: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations where you started & finished your journey; The stations where you changed trains...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[lholden]

Hey thanks for the reply sorry i was vague.

I got caught today with a ticket on my journey which normally cost £8.60 for a single. I normally get the tickets in the morning but i got dropped into work so didnt buy a ticket.

I then got on the train without buying a ticket after waiting at the station for half an hour. I got caught by a ticket officer on the train and didn’t have a ticket when asked so she put my name through the machine and saw i got caught previously.

It wasn't a fine that i got but the sheet saying that i will receive a letter about prosecution. How do i fight my case so i don't get prosecuted as it will ruin my career and future plans. I am happy to pay the fine and extra charges as i know that is sometimes an option as i CANNOT get a criminal record.

But how does the plea work?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hey thanks for the reply sorry i was vague.

Sorry, my friend, you still are. Can you at least advise which company caught you travelling without a ticket? SouthEastern? Transport for London? Someone other?

 

[lholden]

Sorry, my friend, you still are. Can you at least advise which company caught you travelling without a ticket? SouthEastern? Transport for London? Someone other?

It was southeastern

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey thanks for the reply sorry i was vague.

I got caught today with a ticket on my journey which normally cost £8.60 for a single. I normally get the tickets in the morning but i got dropped into work so didnt buy a ticket.

I then got on the train without buying a ticket after waiting at the station for half an hour. I got caught by a ticket officer on the train and didn’t have a ticket when asked so she put my name through the machine and saw i got caught previously.

It wasn't a fine that i got but the sheet saying that i will receive a letter about prosecution. How do i fight my case so i don't get prosecuted as it will ruin my career and future plans. I am happy to pay the fine and extra charges as i know that is sometimes an option as i CANNOT get a criminal record.

But how does the plea work?

Sorry but it does not work like that. The railway gets to decide if they prosecute you or if you can persuade them not to do so but offer you an out of court settlement.

The fact that they have you on record for a previous ticket irregularity (what did you do wrong?) means they may be more likely to want to take firmer action. But you may be able to avoid that if you co operate with them.

 

[lholden]

Sorry but it does not work like that. The railway gets to decide if they prosecute you or if you can persuade them not to do so but offer you an out of court settlement.

The fact that they have you on record for a previous ticket irregularity (what did you do wrong?) means they may be more likely to want to take firmer action. But you may be able to avoid that if you co operate with them.

It was for the same thing, the first time i didn't have time to get a ticket so had to jump on the train. This time i simply forgot

 

[FenMan]

It was for the same thing, the first time i didn't have time to get a ticket so had to jump on the train. This time i simply forgot

If you want to get best advice from this forum perhaps it'd be best to be honest with us? To catch a train and "forgetting" to get a ticket does not pass the smell test.

Where were you travelling from and to? And did you have a ticket for part of your journey or no ticket at all?

 

[lholden]

If you want to get best advice from this forum perhaps it'd be best to be honest with us? To catch a train and "forgetting" to get a ticket does not pass the smell test.

Where were you travelling from and to? And did you have a ticket for part of your journey or no ticket at all?

From st. mary cray to meopham, i catch the train everyday so normally get a ticket but this time i got dropped in and it honestly slipped my mind

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@lholden. Were you issued with any paperwork by South Eastern when you were most recently stopped? If so, could you upload a pic/photo of same, with any name and address (and reference number) suitably obscured / covered up? Presume the name and address details that you provided on that day were correct/ up to date?

 

[lholden]

Here is the print out that i received today

 

[FenMan]

St. Mary Cray has a ticket office that is open 06:10 - 19:30 on weekdays, yet you've twice been caught travelling without a ticket. Only you know how many times you've travelled without a ticket and have got away with it.

Look at this from the railway's perspective; they'll be thinking here's a serial evader where a Penalty Fare (I assume) didn't change their behaviour so stronger action is needed. As it's SouthEastern, you have a chance of avoiding prosecution, but only if you fully cooperate with them. So, no more fibs please, either to us or to SouthEastern.

 

[lholden]

St. Mary Cray has a ticket office that is open 06:10 - 19:30 on weekdays, yet you've twice been caught travelling without a ticket. Only you know how many times you've travelled without a ticket and have got away with it.

Look at this from the railway's perspective; they'll be thinking here's a serial evader where a Penalty Fare (I assume) didn't change their behaviour so stronger action is needed. As it's SouthEastern, you have a chance of avoiding prosecution, but only if you fully cooperate with them. So, no more fibs please, either to us or to

St. Mary Cray has a ticket office that is open 06:10 - 19:30 on weekdays, yet you've twice been caught travelling without a ticket. Only you know how many times you've travelled without a ticket and have got away with it.

Look at this from the railway's perspective; they'll be thinking here's a serial evader where a Penalty Fare (I assume) didn't change their behaviour so stronger action is needed. As it's SouthEastern, you have a chance of avoiding prosecution, but only if you fully cooperate with them. So, no more fibs please, either to us or to

St. Mary Cray has a ticket office that is open 06:10 - 19:30 on weekdays, yet you've twice been caught travelling without a ticket. Only you know how many times you've travelled without a ticket and have got away with it.

Look at this from the railway's perspective; they'll be thinking here's a serial evader where a Penalty Fare (I assume) didn't change their behaviour so stronger action is needed. As it's SouthEastern, you have a chance of avoiding prosecution, but only if you fully cooperate with them. So, no more fibs please, either to us or to SouthEastern.

What would fully cooperating with them be? Pleading guilty or something else

 

[FenMan]

What would fully cooperating with them be? Pleading guilty or something else

You'll have to wait for their letter (assuming you've given them your correct address). When you receive it, head back here for the best advice on your next steps.

Typically, due to the scale of fare evasion, letters can take several weeks to arrive. In the meantime, I'd strongly recommend to not forget to buy the correct tickets for your journey.

 

[lholden]

You'll have to wait for their letter (assuming you've given them your correct address). When you receive it, head back here for the best advice on your next steps.

Typically, due to the scale of fare evasion, letters can take several weeks to arrive. In the meantime, I'd strongly recommend to not forget to buy the correct tickets for your journey.

I will do, thanks a lot for the help everyone

 

[WesternLancer]

From st. mary cray to meopham, i catch the train everyday so normally get a ticket but this time i got dropped in and it honestly slipped my mind

So if you do the trip everyday a season ticket would probably save you a fair sum. Potentially. Buying one now would be the sort of thing you could say to the railway as ‘something you have done to prevent this happening again’.

What they need to see is that you are not a persistent or regular deliberate fare evader. Convincing them of that is a good way to avoid prosecution. So taking such an action is a practical way to show that. If a season ticket makes sense for you.

At the moment it will look to them like you maybe ‘pay when challenged’ which is a fare evasion tactic they want to prevent.

 

[lholden]

So if you do the trip everyday a season ticket would probably save you a fair sum. Potentially. Buying one now would be the sort of thing you could say to the railway as ‘something you have done to prevent this happening again’.

What they need to see is that you are not a persistent or regular deliberate fare evader. Convincing them of that is a good way to avoid prosecution. So taking such an action is a practical way to show that. If a season ticket makes sense for you.

At the moment it will look to them like you maybe ‘pay when challenged’ which is a fare evasion tactic they want to prevent.

That is a great idea thank you, i will purchase one tomorrow

 

[WesternLancer]

That is a great idea thank you, i will purchase one tomorrow

Good plan. This then supports your narrative that you have occasionally forgot. But have now done something to sort that.

IIRC the longer the season you buy the cheaper it gets pro rata. If you can afford a long period of course.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

What happens next is the Southeastern will write to you saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Southeastern are within their rights to send the case to the Magistrates Court. Normally they offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. The problem is you have come to their attention before, and being brutally honest many people would think you should be prosecuted in this situation. My view is there's a chance Southeastern will offer a settlement but you'll probably have to work harder to get one.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the full cost of the fares avoided plus an admin fee, which is normally around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. Note that only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction - you don't want to pay a fine, you want to pay a settlement!

If Southeastern decide to prosecute then prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards Southeastern's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the Railway Byelaws then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic or Standard DBS checks. A conviction under the Regulation of the Railways Act is recorded on the PNC and this would show up on all DBS checks until the conviction is considered as spent (normally a year in most situations)

Regardless of whether a conviction is recorded on the PNC we would always advise someone to be honest if they are asked if they have a crininal conviction. A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect career prospects..

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[lholden]

This is what i was after thanks so much. Would you advise getting a solicitor involved?

 

[Hadders]

The decision about using a solicitor is a decision only you can take.

They can sometimes 'fast track' a case but they aren't cheap. There's no guarantee they will be able to get Southeastern to offer you a settlement either.

Personally I would wait for Southeastern's letter, reply to it and see what they say. If they decide to prosecute then that's when I would be looking to use a solicitor.

 

[lholden]

Has anyone on here had experience with writing the reply to the letter. As i am really not sure how to write such a document as i have neve had to do anything like this before

 

[WesternLancer]

Has anyone on here had experience with writing the reply to the letter. As i am really not sure how to write such a document as i have neve had to do anything like this before

There are lots of examples in other threads if you have a look. Best to write something in your own words - does not need to be lengthy or detailed.

There is one in this thread for example which might give you an idea. See around post #18

Thameslink prosecution letter

Hi, I was travelling from harlington to Farringdon but had a ticket from St Pancras to Farringdon and got stopped by the fraud team at the station. (This isn’t my first time I’ve done this but first time getting caught). I was on my way to work. I was coming back to work after the Christmas...

www.railforums.co.uk

or here - see posts #11,12,13

Southeastern prosecution letter response advice

Hi, I would like to get some advice on the responses that due to be replied to the letter received from prosecution department of southeastern. I evaded a ticket from Surrey to London Bridge and instead wrongly bought the return ticket between London Bridge and Deptford as I was going to...

www.railforums.co.uk

If you have bought a season or something then you can mention that in terms of what to say about what you have done to prevent the matter happening again.

 

[lholden]

Should i mention that a criminal record would ruin my plans to move to Australia and stuff like that?

 

[AlterEgo]

Should i mention that a criminal record would ruin my plans to move to Australia and stuff like that?

Train companies know what a criminal record is, I don't think they need reminding. Your choice to emigrate is of no consequence to the train company (why on earth should this be a reason not to prosecute YOU?), but you can vaguely say you obviously do not want the consequences and hassle of going to court, and request them to settle privately.

 

[WesternLancer]

Should i mention that a criminal record would ruin my plans to move to Australia and stuff like that?

Points well made by @AlterEgo - so you can allude to it generally eg wording like:

'a criminal record would have an adverse impact on my future career plans, and I would be most grateful if you could consider allowing me to settle the matter out of court'

or some such. sort of thing you could put towards the end or at the end to make it clear to the reader what you 'ask is' and what you would like them to do.

as above - use this advice as a structure for what you need a to write. Maybe 2 or 3 sentences for each point might do.

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

 

[lholden]

Points well made by @AlterEgo - so you can allude to it generally eg wording like:

'a criminal record would have an adverse impact on my future career plans, and I would be most grateful if you could consider allowing me to settle the matter out of court'

or some such. sort of thing you could put towards the end or at the end to make it clear to the reader what you 'ask is' and what you would like them to do.

as above - use this advice as a structure for what you need a to write. Maybe 2 or 3 sentences for each point might do.

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matte

I haven't received the letter yet but will knock up a draft tonight and put it in here. Thanks again for the help

 

[WesternLancer]

I haven't received the letter yet but will knock up a draft tonight and put it in here. Thanks again for the help

That's no bad idea in terms of preparation. However, when the letter comes you will need to check if there is anything specific in it that needs to be addressed in your reply. Tho it's likely it will probably be in the standard format - you can probably find copies of such letters from Southeastern on other threads if you search about.

 

[lholden]

On average, how long does the letter take to arrive? some say two weeks others have said a month.

 

[AlterEgo]

On average, how long does the letter take to arrive? some say two weeks others have said a month.

It varies according to their workload, I expect. It can in theory take nearly 6 months to arrive.