Scotrail Bans Electronic Cigarettes.

[s2345]

It is reported that a million plus ex smokers are now using 'e' cigarettes. It is not difficult to work out that the government is losing millions in taxes and the recent 'health scare' is a prelude to regulation, which really means taxation. So, to all you fine antis out there, be careful what you wish for. The lost revenue has to come from somewhere and if everyone gave up smoking the tax will have to be raised from another soft target. Energy supplies; motor fuel or how about VAT on train tickets?

On the other hand, the cost to the NHS in treating those with smoking related health problems will be correlated with the percentage of the population who smoke! The cost to the NHS due to smoking related issues is certainly not insignificant.

 

[Butts]

I think this may be a First Group policy from Aberdeen as FCC have banned them as Scotrail has, think FGW and TPE will follow suit.

Wonder what the position of First Bus is on the use of these devices onboard.
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On the other hand, the cost to the NHS in treating those with smoking related health problems will be correlated with the percentage of the population who smoke! The cost to the NHS due to smoking related issues is certainly not insignificant.

Don't even go there .....

Excise Duty and Vat on tobacco products raises about £11 Billion

Cost to the NHS 4 or 5 Billion at the most.

Don't forget the Government also saves a fortune in Benefits and Pensions to those who smoke their way to a premature death

 

[edwin_m]

Excise Duty and Vat on tobacco products raises about £11 Billion

Cost to the NHS 4 or 5 Billion at the most.

But that equation wouldn't apply if everyone else bought theirs in Luxembourg.

 

[Butts]

But that equation wouldn't apply if everyone else bought theirs in Luxembourg.

True, I only do it because Luxembourg is one of the few places "British B&H Gold" are available at reasonable prices.

Fortunately for non-smokers this is not an option for a lot of people.

 

[cjp]

The railways are not restricted to what Parliament has laid down. They're private undertakings. If they don't want to carry passengers juggling red spotted footballs whistling the theme tune to Z Cars, that's their prerogative. They don't need Parliament's permission to make rules like that.

I admit to not having ploughed through a Rail Franchise but I rather suspect that you are quite wrong.
What they can do and should do is set out in the Railways Act - currently 2005. This Act gives them the right to make certain Bylaws - see my earlier post.
How they act in the carriage of passengers is contrained or governed by the National Conditions of Carriage.
And of course the laws of the country apply.

So if they were to act as capriciously as you suggest they find themselves in whole lot of trouble.

But thank you for your considered imput into this discussion

 

[cmjcf]

I admit to not having ploughed through a Rail Franchise but I rather suspect that you are quite wrong.
What they can do and should do is set out in the Railways Act - currently 2005. This Act gives them the right to make certain Bylaws - see my earlier post.

The power to make Bylaws is strictly above and beyond conventional property rights, which already allow them to prohibit anything and everything. They only need a Bylaw to impose a penalty.

 

[bnm]

Picking up on this topic as I'm a convert to vaping, having not touched tobacco products since January 2013, and having read widely on the use of, and the ingredients in, electronic cigarettes.

Nicotine itself is not addictive, only becoming so when combined with a MAOI, so for these devices to meet an addict's need, they must also contain MAOIs. MAOIs are themselves quote dangerous, for example they react with a substance present in dairy products to cause a rapid spike in high blood pressure.

Evidence to back up that statement?

Here's some evidence that provides the contrary:

http://edge.rit.edu/content/P10055/public/NZ E-Cig Study

2.3 Monoamine oxidase

Rationale.
MAO, an enzyme naturally found in blood platelets and the brain, metabolises dopamine, also known as the pleasure drug. When this process is inhibited by known MAO inhibitors in tobacco smoke, dopamine tends to accumulate, reinforcing the effect of nicotine. The question is whether e-cigarette cartridge liquid also acts to inhibit MAO and reinforce the addictive effect of nicotine, or whether it acts like pure nicotine.

Method.
Samples of the liquid contained in the Ruyan e-cigarette cartridges were tested with a monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzyme activity assay which employs the fluorescent MAO substrate kynuramine, and the effect compared with that from tobacco extracts including a nicotine-free tobacco.

Laboratory.
ESR Porirua NZ, a Crown Research Institute.

Results.
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzymes both A and B, were strongly inhibited by tobacco smoke extracts but the cartridge liquid alone had no such effect.

Conclusion.
The Ruyan E-cigarette cartridge liquid does not behave like a tobacco extract. The absence of a MAO inhibitor effect means the e-cigarette has no detectable addictive potential beyond that of nicotine.

Nicotine itself is addictive and does not require a MAOI to feed that addiction. MAOIs contribute to the addictiveness of nicotine, they are not the sole reason that nicotine is addictive. There are numerous studies showing that nicotine alone is addictive. If your assertion that nicotine alone is not addictive were correct, then the various smoking cessation products; patches, inhalators, gum, etc, would have no efficacy.

All the constituent ingredients that go into the liquid that is vapourised in a European or US made e-cigarette, or in ready made or home made e-liquid, are either of food or pharmacological grade. Those from the far east may not have passed European or US standards but I doubt those manufacturers and their suppliers are deliberately poisoning their customers or adding to their products anything other than the four main ingredients.

Those ingredients are:

• Propylene Glycol (PG, used to carry any flavour, provides some vapour, provides a 'throat hit' similar to inhaling tobacco smoke)
• Vegetable Glycerin (VG, provides more vapour than PG, adds sweetness, carries less of the flavour and doesn't give a 'throat hit')
• Flavouring (in a PG suspension, may be artificial (food grade) or natural extracts)
• Nicotine (in a PG/VG suspension)

I make my own e-liquid from base ingredients for use in my vaping devices (which, incidentally, look nothing like a traditional cigarette and have no light on the end). Those ingredients all carry either B.P, EurPh or USP marks, with the flavourings showing the list of ingredients as per any normal food product.

The pharma grade nicotine for mixing one's own liquids comes in a base of PG, VG or a combination of both, up to a maximum strength of 75mg/ml of nicotine as permissible in the UK to be sold/purchased without a chemicals licence. That nicotine base is then further diluted with a mix of PG and VG to your desired strength -typically from 6mg (equivalent to a 'light' cigarette) to 24mg (a high strength filterless) - and then flavouring is added. Flavour concentrates are usually suspended in a PG base.

I mix my e-liquid to a strength of 16mg with a ratio of 60% PG and 40% VG. I prefer fruity or minty flavours over a tobacco flavour. Currently vaping (not smoking) Black Cherry and Menthol flavours.

That liquid is vapourised. Nothing is combusted. No smoke is created. No carcinogens are inhaled or exhaled. No one around you will be exposed to anything worse in the exhaled vapour than the PG and VG, and a very very small amount of nicotine, from which there is no danger of addiction or risk to health from passively inhaling the vapour. Anymore than there would be from inhaling caffeine from a steaming cup of coffee.

If I vape my average 1.6ml of e-liquid, at 16mg/ml nicotine strength, per day, I will typically absorb around 95% of the suspended nicotine, leaving just 0.8mg per day of nicotine to be exhaled. Total volume of exhaled vapour is difficult to determine, but in the same study quoted above, the amount of nicotine exhaled was reckoned to be less than 0.01 parts per million.

Much further reading on just how much safer e-cigarettes are for their users and those around them can be found at:

http://casaa.org/Home_Page.php

Finally, I vape on the train. I will stop if asked. But I don't see how I can possibly be breaking any bye-law as they are currently written.