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Swedish ticket offices to close

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Adlington

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The Railway Gazette reports:
National passenger operator SJ is to close its remaining travel centres at the main stations in Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö from March 1. Customer service staff will instead be deployed around the stations to provide information and assist passengers with using ticket machines, digital purchases and rebooking. SJ said customers were increasingly choosing to use digital services, and so the need for a physical location at stations had significantly decreased.

It had already closed its ticket offices outside the three big cities. People wanting to buy tickets for cash are referred to convenience shops.
From another source: these convenience shops doing a sideline in train tickets are Pressbyrån and 7-Eleven. There is a 100 krona ( around £8.50) surcharge for paying cash.
"Two packets of crisps and a return to Malmö, please".
 
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Shinkansenfan

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With ticket offices closed, I wonder how those arriving with unvalidated Eurailpasses are supposed to validate their passes before first use? You need a station stamp.

Hopefully the Arlanda Airport Station will still be able to validate passes?

This reminds me of my last trip on the Heathrow Express. The ticket office that used to be at Heathrow Central Station was removed. Only roving station staff. No place to validate the Eurailpass/Britrailpass. Station staff simply said to attend to this upon arrival at Paddington.
 
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Adlington

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With ticket offices closed, I wonder how those arriving with unvalidated Eurailpasses are supposed to validate their passes before first use?
The second sentence of the original source seems to provide the answer:
"Customer service staff will instead be deployed around the stations to provide information and assist passengers".
It's reasonable to assume the staff will be equipped with appropriate validation devices...
 

Flying Snail

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The second sentence of the original source seems to provide the answer:
"Customer service staff will instead be deployed around the stations to provide information and assist passengers".
It's reasonable to assume the staff will be equipped with appropriate validation devices...

The validation method is still an ink stamp isn't it? Pretty unlikely every (or any) station staff member will be carrying one of those around with them.
 

Shinkansenfan

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The validation method is still an ink stamp isn't it? Pretty unlikely every (or any) station staff member will be carrying one of those around with them.

Yes; ink stamp with station name and date. It is problematic when the station staff forget to change the date. That happened to me in Berlin once.
 

185

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But where am I going to by a FIP ticket fr... oh hang on it's Sweden :lol:

Still a mistake if you ask me.
 

Bletchleyite

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But where am I going to by a FIP ticket fr... oh hang on it's Sweden :lol:

Still a mistake if you ask me.

For risk of a bit of thread crossover, they're mostly compulsory reservation, aren't they, which means more people will buy in advance online to ensure a seat?
 

jamesontheroad

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The Railway Gazette reports:

From another source: these convenience shops doing a sideline in train tickets are Pressbyrån and 7-Eleven. There is a 100 krona ( around £8.50) surcharge for paying cash.
"Two packets of crisps and a return to Malmö, please".

For risk of a bit of thread crossover, they're mostly compulsory reservation, aren't they, which means more people will buy in advance online to ensure a seat?

For a bit of clarification, the closure relates to SJ's three remaining ticket offices. SJ is a government-owned passenger train operator, as opposed to the state-owned railway from it was privatised. SJ is amongst the last train operators to have ticket offices, but not the last. At least one regional operator (Skånetrafiken) has at least one staffed ticket office elsewhere in the country.

Long-distance trains are indeed compulsory reservation, but local and regional trains are not.
 

Philip

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Seems rather silly; both passengers and staff will be compromised as a result. In theory a ticket machine might be able to do just about everything the ticket office can do, at a fraction of the cost. But the reality is often different with many passengers requiring assistance from the booking office both in obtaining their tickets and in advice about their journey, and that's before even considering the effects of rail disruption. Roving customer service staff isn't as efficient a method, compared with having a 'go-to' point for passengers.
 

jamesontheroad

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Yes; ink stamp with station name and date. It is problematic when the station staff forget to change the date. That happened to me in Berlin once.

The problem with Sweden's process of railway marketization is that (unlike the UK) there has been no concerted attempt to maintain a single ticketing system. Most operators do cooperate, and most journeys can be purchased from most operators, but there are one or two exceptions. Unlike the UK, the sparse population has already led to a decline of station services before marketisation, so there was no expectation that train operators would be obliged to serve the small number of people who don’t engage digitally in their service.

There will be a small number of groups for whom this change is very inconvenient: one-contry Interrailers visiting Sweden, multi-country Interrailers starting their trip in Sweden and FIP pass holders are such groups.

Being a Brit who emigrated to Sweden, I suppose I have been through the pain barrier on this and adapted.

Sweden is one of the most "digital" countries in the world, in the sense that scores of digital literacy and digital accessibility are very high. Swedish media does occasionally highlight the plight of older people or those with impairments that prevent them from accessing services, but the popular urgency for that seems to be waning.

To give an example of how my life in Sweden differs from my old life in the UK, consider a day I spent last week. I needed a haircut, so I booked a time online at my barbershop. In normal times, I might have taken the county bus, in which I case I would have used my Swedish phone to buy a bus ticket on the county traffic authority's app. It would generate a QR code which I would scan when boarding the bus. You cannot pay a bus fare in cash. Likewise the train. Tickets aren't available at the station. You can use a debit or credit card to buy a ticket from the conductor, but most will use an app and generate a QR code.

However, because of COVID, I decided to drive.

The car needed petrol, so I gassed up a self-service petrol station. I remember these appearing at Asda in the UK in the last few years, but they were in the minority. Today, about half of all petrol stations I drive past on my way to town are completely self-service. These have touchscreen card machines, or you can use the gas station's app to pay from inside the car. The cold climate seems to incentivise this. I think the petrol station companies also encourage us to pay this way by getting customers who pay by card not to pay at the pump itself but at one or two standalone machines: saving money by reducing the need for expensive weather-proofed card payment equipment.

I found a parking space in town and paid for one hour of parking using another app. I could shorten or lengthen the parking ticket as necessary from my phone. I will get a summary of all my parking and then a direct debit at the end of the month.

Of course, the barber doesn't accept cash. He uses Swish, a national system supported by all the banks together which allows me to scan a QR code on the counter or enter his phone number. Our Swish accounts are tied to our bank accounts. When I press "Swish" to authorise the (phenomenally expensive) cost of the haircut, it invokes another app to open called BankID. BankID is common to all banks and used for authorising not only payments but also log-in credentials on government websites, loyalty card accounts etc. It's tied to my 12-digit social security number (which is on my ID card and, incidentally, is also my driving license number). The money moves electronically in seconds.

On the way home I pick up a prescription. The day before, I logged onto 1177.se (the national healthcare portal) on my laptop using my social security number. It remotely invoked the BankID app on my phone for confirmation, which I picked up and responded to. The website got a positive signal from BankID and let me in. I requested a repeat prescription of routine medication. The doctor gets a notification, but unlike in the UK he doesn't need to print or sign anything, or "send" the prescription. When I get to the apotek the pharmacist scans the QR code on my driving license and retrieves the prescription. I pay using contactless card. They do not take cash.

All this is fine and dandy if you live here, but it was a nightmare when we first arrived. It took about a month to get a social security number, then ID cards, then bank accounts and then driving licenses. Until then we were reliant on cash, which many retailers (and, believe it or not, banks) refuse to accept. I can count the number of ATM in my local town on the fingers of one hand. Since June 2020 I haven't touched a coin or banknote (and that last transaction was only because a local tradesperson wanted to sell me firewood without the tax agencies knowing about it.) Since we couldn't prove our identities by the magic combination of social security number and BankID, we had to live a very simple life, relying on a foreign credit card and occasional cash withdrawals. We couldn't even get a supermarket loyalty card, because that is created by scanning your driving license and using your social security number as the identifier. (One unexpected side effect of life in Sweden is that my wallet is no longer bulging with proprietary loyalty cards... no need for all that plastic, they just scan my driving license.)

So, yes, this will be an inconvenience for visitors to Sweden. One can hope that most Interrailers or FIP-holders will land in Sweden at places like Arlanda Airport (where there is a higher-than-average provision of staff and information for arrivals) or that they will come via Germany and Denmark on passes that have already been stamped.

Edit: one final additional thought. SJ is closing these ticket offices because they're expensive. Labour costs in Sweden are expensive, and the space occupied by these ticket offices is expensive to rent from the Jernhusen AB, the company created on privatisation to manage railway stations. Before and especially during COVID, not many people used them: just tourists and the small number of people who don't engage with SJ digitally. It is, unfortunately, a consequence of the relative wealth of Sweden and the advance of the digital society that they are deciding to withdraw these services.
 
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JonasB

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For a bit of clarification, the closure relates to SJ's three remaining ticket offices. SJ is a government-owned passenger train operator, as opposed to the state-owned railway from it was privatised. SJ is amongst the last train operators to have ticket offices, but not the last. At least one regional operator (Skånetrafiken) has at least one staffed ticket office elsewhere in the country.

Many regional public transport companies have at least one ticket office. In addition there are some ticket offices run by private companies, like the on in Kalmar that has become famous among Swedes who want to take the train to Europe.

Seems rather silly; both passengers and staff will be compromised as a result. In theory a ticket machine might be able to do just about everything the ticket office can do, at a fraction of the cost. But the reality is often different with many passengers requiring assistance from the booking office both in obtaining their tickets and in advice about their journey, and that's before even considering the effects of rail disruption.

Those who want to talk to someone can still call SJ and buy their tickets over the phone. But yes, this is not a good thing. I can understand SJ though, most people buy their tickets online or in ticket machines. And with the pandemic they are probably doing everything possible to save money, and not having to pay rent for three ticket offices probably helps a bit.
 

the sniper

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There will be a small number of groups for whom this change is very inconvenient: one-contry Interrailers visiting Sweden, multi-country Interrailers starting their trip in Sweden and FIP pass holders are such groups.

Sweden aren't part of FIP, one of the only places in Europe that isn't. We weren't welcome before this! :lol:

Probably for the best that European rail staff don't get to experience the dystopian national railway system of the future.
 

Gloster

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The problem with Sweden's process of railway marketization is that (unlike the UK) there has been no concerted attempt to maintain a single ticketing system. Most operators do cooperate, and most journeys can be purchased from most operators, but there are one or two exceptions. Unlike the UK, the sparse population has already led to a decline of station services before marketisation, so there was no expectation that train operators would be obliged to serve the small number of people who don’t engage digitally in their service.

There will be a small number of groups for whom this change is very inconvenient: one-contry Interrailers visiting Sweden, multi-country Interrailers starting their trip in Sweden and FIP pass holders are such groups.

Being a Brit who emigrated to Sweden, I suppose I have been through the pain barrier on this and adapted.

Sweden is one of the most "digital" countries in the world, in the sense that scores of digital literacy and digital accessibility are very high. Swedish media does occasionally highlight the plight of older people or those with impairments that prevent them from accessing services, but the popular urgency for that seems to be waning.

To give an example of how my life in Sweden differs from my old life in the UK, consider a day I spent last week. I needed a haircut, so I booked a time online at my barbershop. In normal times, I might have taken the county bus, in which I case I would have used my Swedish phone to buy a bus ticket on the county traffic authority's app. It would generate a QR code which I would scan when boarding the bus. You cannot pay a bus fare in cash. Likewise the train. Tickets aren't available at the station. You can use a debit or credit card to buy a ticket from the conductor, but most will use an app and generate a QR code.

However, because of COVID, I decided to drive.

The car needed petrol, so I gassed up a self-service petrol station. I remember these appearing at Asda in the UK in the last few years, but they were in the minority. Today, about half of all petrol stations I drive past on my way to town are completely self-service. These have touchscreen card machines, or you can use the gas station's app to pay from inside the car. The cold climate seems to incentivise this. I think the petrol station companies also encourage us to pay this way by getting customers who pay by card not to pay at the pump itself but at one or two standalone machines: saving money by reducing the need for expensive weather-proofed card payment equipment.

I found a parking space in town and paid for one hour of parking using another app. I could shorten or lengthen the parking ticket as necessary from my phone. I will get a summary of all my parking and then a direct debit at the end of the month.

Of course, the barber doesn't accept cash. He uses Swish, a national system supported by all the banks together which allows me to scan a QR code on the counter or enter his phone number. Our Swish accounts are tied to our bank accounts. When I press "Swish" to authorise the (phenomenally expensive) cost of the haircut, it invokes another app to open called BankID. BankID is common to all banks and used for authorising not only payments but also log-in credentials on government websites, loyalty card accounts etc. It's tied to my 12-digit social security number (which is on my ID card and, incidentally, is also my driving license number). The money moves electronically in seconds.

On the way home I pick up a prescription. The day before, I logged onto 1177.se (the national healthcare portal) on my laptop using my social security number. It remotely invoked the BankID app on my phone for confirmation, which I picked up and responded to. The website got a positive signal from BankID and let me in. I requested a repeat prescription of routine medication. The doctor gets a notification, but unlike in the UK he doesn't need to print or sign anything, or "send" the prescription. When I get to the apotek the pharmacist scans the QR code on my driving license and retrieves the prescription. I pay using contactless card. They do not take cash.

All this is fine and dandy if you live here, but it was a nightmare when we first arrived. It took about a month to get a social security number, then ID cards, then bank accounts and then driving licenses. Until then we were reliant on cash, which many retailers (and, believe it or not, banks) refuse to accept. I can count the number of ATM in my local town on the fingers of one hand. Since June 2020 I haven't touched a coin or banknote (and that last transaction was only because a local tradesperson wanted to sell me firewood without the tax agencies knowing about it.) Since we couldn't prove our identities by the magic combination of social security number and BankID, we had to live a very simple life, relying on a foreign credit card and occasional cash withdrawals. We couldn't even get a supermarket loyalty card, because that is created by scanning your driving license and using your social security number as the identifier. (One unexpected side effect of life in Sweden is that my wallet is no longer bulging with proprietary loyalty cards... no need for all that plastic, they just scan my driving license.)

So, yes, this will be an inconvenience for visitors to Sweden. One can hope that most Interrailers or FIP-holders will land in Sweden at places like Arlanda Airport (where there is a higher-than-average provision of staff and information for arrivals) or that they will come via Germany and Denmark on passes that have already been stamped.

Edit: one final additional thought. SJ is closing these ticket offices because they're expensive. Labour costs in Sweden are expensive, and the space occupied by these ticket offices is expensive to rent from the Jernhusen AB, the company created on privatisation to manage railway stations. Before and especially during COVID, not many people used them: just tourists and the small number of people who don't engage with SJ digitally. It is, unfortunately, a consequence of the relative wealth of Sweden and the advance of the digital society that they are deciding to withdraw these services.
Somewhat of a change from when I was there thirty years ago. I am not the most digitally-competant person in the world, but even I found it a step back when moving from Denmark.
 

sheff1

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All this is fine and dandy if you live here, but it was a nightmare when we first arrived.
On my more recent visits to Sweden (pre-covid, naturally) I noticed how anti-foreigner some places had become, not because of the attitudes of the people but because the systems in place did not facilitate payment by non-residents.

Just one example, there were more - at a food kiosk I ordered a drink and a sandwich. After both had been prepared I was told the price and handed over a note - "We don't accept cash". So I produced my credit card "We don't accept that either, you must pay by Swish". I said I could not pay by Swish because I did not have a Swedish bank account and I could not have a Swedish bank account because I did not have a Swedish ID number (I din't mention that I also did not possess a smartphone). Outcome - a hungry and thirsty foreigner and prepared food and drink which would go to waste. I can't believe I was the only non-Swedish resident to have ever visited that kiosk but they were seemingly content to turn foreign custom away.

Going back more OT, I found the lack of ticket offices to be an advantage on at least two occasions when boarding at stations which also had no ticket machines. In one case there was no onboard ticket check so it was impossible to pay, the other time the conductor's card reader was broken so again unable to pay (cash not accepted obviously) - the conductor confirmed there was no need to pay as it was the railway equipment which was at fault.
 

Bletchleyite

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That's as much a problem in the Netherlands. I don't see what's hard about just accepting Visa and MasterCard as everywhere else in the world does? If the issue is fees, just charge a little extra.
 

ABB125

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That's as much a problem in the Netherlands. I don't see what's hard about just accepting Visa and MasterCard as everywhere else in the world does? If the issue is fees, just charge a little extra.
I'm not sure that's permitted. Certainly, my dad isn't allowed to charge customers extra for paying with a credit card, for example. He says it's some sort of fairly recent EU law which presumably applies throughout Europe. But then again, what are the chances that every EU country other that the UK (prior to leaving) have simply ignored the rule (as often seems to be the case!)?
 

XAM2175

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Certainly, my dad isn't allowed to charge customers extra for paying with a credit card, for example. He says it's some sort of fairly recent EU law which presumably applies throughout Europe.
Yes, the payment services regulations introduced in 2015 prohibit surcharging for payment by personal credit or debit card. Prior to this the surcharges were capped. Corporate cards, and those issued by "three-party" schemes such as American Express and Diners' Club, are not subject to the payment services rules and can still be surcharged.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad position, but I do agree that there should be protections for people who aren't able to make use of the various "novel" payment systems.

But then again, what are the chances that every EU country other that the UK (prior to leaving) have simply ignored the rule (as often seems to be the case!)?
Exceedingly unlikely :rolleyes:
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, the payment services regulations introduced in 2015 prohibit surcharging for payment by personal credit or debit card. Prior to this the surcharges were capped. Corporate cards, and those issued by "three-party" schemes such as American Express and Diners' Club, are not subject to the payment services rules and can still be surcharged.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad position, but I do agree that there should be protections for people who aren't able to make use of the various "novel" payment systems.

I certainly think it's caused unintended consequences. As a disliker of cash, I'd rather pay a small fee in proportion to what it cost the retailer plus a profit margin (say 10%) for card use than be refused it entirely. The effect has been that the likes of local corner shops put a minimum card payment of typically £10 on it instead, or these country-specific schemes, and that's worse.

So my view would be that they should not have banned the fees, but simply capped them at "what the bank charges the retailer plus 10%" or similar.
 

ABB125

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Not very high. Would you father happen to have any examples?
He's given several examples in the past that relate to his line of work, but I can't remember any off the top of my head unfortunately. Whether what he says is true or not I don't know.
However it wasn't my intention to start a Brexit discussion (which, with hindsight, was possibly inevitable!), so hopefully we can leave it there. :)
 

XAM2175

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The effect has been that the likes of local corner shops put a minimum card payment of typically £10 on it instead, or these country-specific schemes, and that's worse.

So my view would be that they should not have banned the fees, but simply capped them at "what the bank charges the retailer plus 10%" or similar.
Interestingly, the last time I read a credit-card provider's Merchant Agreement (which, granted, was in Australia seven or eight years ago) it explicitly stated that merchants weren't allowed to impose minimum payment amounts. But I agree completely that there have been unintended consequences.
 

JonasB

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On my more recent visits to Sweden (pre-covid, naturally) I noticed how anti-foreigner some places had become, not because of the attitudes of the people but because the systems in place did not facilitate payment by non-residents.

Cafés and other store relying on Swish and not accepting cash or credit cards is a big problem. May I ask what parts of Sweden you visited?
 

radamfi

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That's as much a problem in the Netherlands. I don't see what's hard about just accepting Visa and MasterCard as everywhere else in the world does? If the issue is fees, just charge a little extra.

Do they have a national specific app in the Netherlands like the Swedish Swish? Lots of places accept Maestro but not Visa or MasterCard, however (apart from a few convenience stores) cash is still accepted pretty much everywhere. They have a lot of unmanned petrol stations like Sweden but I thought they accept foreign credit cards.
 

Bletchleyite

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Do they have a national specific app in the Netherlands like the Swedish Swish? Lots of places accept Maestro but not Visa or MasterCard, however (apart from a few convenience stores) cash is still accepted pretty much everywhere. They have a lot of unmanned petrol stations like Sweden but I thought they accept foreign credit cards.

A problem for years has been Nederlandse Spoorwegen TVMs, which accepted coins or PINpas (I guess now Maestro) only, and the rule there is that you must purchase before boarding, no exceptions, no sales on board at all. The ones at Schiphol were adapted to take credit cards, but not the others, but I don't know where it ended up as I've not been over there for a number of years. I suppose the OV-Chipkaart provides a different workaround now.

Of course Maestro is not a jot of use for UK people as no UK banks issue it any more, they've all switched to Mastercard Debit which processes via the credit card system. Even when they did it wasn't actual Maestro but rebranded Switch so didn't work absolutely everywhere.

Another one that seems to keep coming up (in NL as well I think) is V-Pay, which is a Visa system that works only in the Eurozone and doesn't do currency translation.

It's a right mess. In many ways I'm surprised the EU hasn't acted on it to at least mandate systems that work across the whole EU and not just Eurozone countries.
 

sheff1

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Cafés and other store relying on Swish and not accepting cash or credit cards is a big problem. May I ask what parts of Sweden you visited?
Various parts - Skane, Halland, Vastergotland, Stockholm, Gastrikland, Dalarna.
 

radamfi

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A problem for years has been Nederlandse Spoorwegen TVMs, which accepted coins or PINpas (I guess now Maestro) only, and the rule there is that you must purchase before boarding, no exceptions, no sales on board at all. The ones at Schiphol were adapted to take credit cards, but not the others, but I don't know where it ended up as I've not been over there for a number of years. I suppose the OV-Chipkaart provides a different workaround now.


says you can pay using Visa, MasterCard and American Express at all NS ticket machines.
 

Bletchleyite

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scarby

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The validation method is still an ink stamp isn't it? Pretty unlikely every (or any) station staff member will be carrying one of those around with them.
When I have used Interrail passes, all the validation is done on-board. I have never needed or been asked to have a "station stamp". After all, you could be commencing your journey at a tiny unstaffed halt. You are just expected to write the date and your first journey in before you board.
 

S&CLER

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A problem for years has been Nederlandse Spoorwegen TVMs, which accepted coins or PINpas (I guess now Maestro) only, and the rule there is that you must purchase before boarding, no exceptions, no sales on board at all. The ones at Schiphol were adapted to take credit cards, but not the others, but I don't know where it ended up as I've not been over there for a number of years. I suppose the OV-Chipkaart provides a different workaround now.

Of course Maestro is not a jot of use for UK people as no UK banks issue it any more, they've all switched to Mastercard Debit which processes via the credit card system. Even when they did it wasn't actual Maestro but rebranded Switch so didn't work absolutely everywhere.

Another one that seems to keep coming up (in NL as well I think) is V-Pay, which is a Visa system that works only in the Eurozone and doesn't do currency translation.

It's a right mess. In many ways I'm surprised the EU hasn't acted on it to at least mandate systems that work across the whole EU and not just Eurozone countries.
There is an article in today's NRC Handelsblad, of which the headline (my rough translation from Dutch) is OV chipkaart end in sight. It seems to refer to a trial in Lelystad with PINpas on buses. Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article. My residence in the Netherlands was in the 1970s, long before all this, and my last visit was in November 2014, so I'm not really au fait with Dutch public transport any more.
 

radamfi

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There is an article in today's NRC Handelsblad, of which the headline (my rough translation from Dutch) is OV chipkaart end in sight. It seems to refer to a trial in Lelystad with PINpas on buses. Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article. My residence in the Netherlands was in the 1970s, long before all this, and my last visit was in November 2014, so I'm not really au fait with Dutch public transport any more.

Presumably this is something to do with touch in touch out contactless, similar to how London's transport has been working for several years.
 

biko

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There is an article in today's NRC Handelsblad, of which the headline (my rough translation from Dutch) is OV chipkaart end in sight. It seems to refer to a trial in Lelystad with PINpas on buses. Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber so I can't read the full article. My residence in the Netherlands was in the 1970s, long before all this, and my last visit was in November 2014, so I'm not really au fait with Dutch public transport any more.
It's this article which I am able to read (I believe you can read a number of articles for free): Het einde van de ov-chipkaart nadert: nieuwe methode is 'veiliger en goedkoper'.

To summarise the content: it is about a trial with contactless payment only in Lelystad, indeed similar to how it works in London. The rest of the article is nothing new, it repeats that the end of life of the system is 2023 (MIFARE it's called apparently). However, they don't have a solution yet for subscriptions, so for now, it's implemented alongside the ov-chipkaart. Also, the article mentions there will be an anonymous option of travelling involving a sort of ov-chipkaart. This is all a bit off-topic however...
 
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