SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Siemens Staines]

458526 will be the next unit for conversion at Widnes, leaving Bournemouth 29th May. 458534 will also go off lease week commencing Mon 27th May.

Thank you for this information.

8533 is powered up and can move on its own now. Last parts are due in mid-May. There might be some eye rolling but some of the bits had to be reverse engineered or ID’d. Some didn’t even have Alstom DTR numbers.

Is there any possibility that 458533 will be returned to service in time to replace 458534?

 

[Snow1964]

458526 will be the next unit for conversion at Widnes, leaving Bournemouth 29th May. 458534 will also go off lease week commencing Mon 27th May.

Apologies if this is really dumb question, but if 8 units are ultimately going off lease, why just 1 in 8 lease return now, and not all 8, or none of the 8 yet.

Is it simply due an overhaul and can return them unfixed.

 

[Benno]

Apologies if this is really dumb question, but if 8 units are ultimately going off lease, why just 1 in 8 lease return now, and not all 8, or none of the 8 yet.

Is it simply due an overhaul and can return them unfixed.

458534 has ran out of miles to it's C4 exam and so must stop until that exam is done. As the cost of a C4 exam is quite significant, and the unit has no future after the 701s are introduced it has to be determined whether it is cost effective to do the exam and keep leasing the unit, or hand it back and getting some 458/4s into service. Remember some 455s are still getting C4s at Bournemouth and their life is likely to be short too.

 

[SWT_USER]

458534 has ran out of miles to it's C4 exam and so must stop until that exam is done. As the cost of a C4 exam is quite significant, and the unit has no future after the 701s are introduced it has to be determined whether it is cost effective to do the exam and keep leasing the unit, or hand it back and getting some 458/4s into service. Remember some 455s are still getting C4s at Bournemouth and their life is likely to be short too.

It will have a future for a good few years in that case. SWR have shown themselves completely incapable of managing the 701 introduction and shouldn't now be allowed to withdraw perfectly good units because of their incompetence. The situation is desperate as it is.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Thank you for this information.



Is there any possibility that 458533 will be returned to service in time to replace 458534?

No. Last parts needed have slipped to July.

 

[DelW]

458534 has ran out of miles to it's C4 exam and so must stop until that exam is done. As the cost of a C4 exam is quite significant, and the unit has no future after the 701s are introduced it has to be determined whether it is cost effective to do the exam and keep leasing the unit, or hand it back and getting some 458/4s into service. Remember some 455s are still getting C4s at Bournemouth and their life is likely to be short too.

So there's no money for an exam for a unit which would then go straight back into service, but there's money to pay for lots more 458/4 conversions, after which SWR / DfT propose to store them for several years then scrap them unused.

The stupidity, incompetence and wastefulness is beyond belief. Thank goodness the 455s were retractioned (for what was thought to be a short remaining career) as without them SWR would have had to pretty much close down metro operations out of Waterloo.

 

[mullinsj08]

So there's no money for an exam for a unit which would then go straight back into service, but there's money to pay for lots more 458/4 conversions, after which SWR / DfT propose to store them for several years then scrap them unused.

The 458/4 conversions are already paid for, which is why they are happening

 

[RealTrains07]

Still got the Stagecoach blue on the strip below the window. Wall coverings look original, too.

Wall coverings don't really need a colour change as the colour still matches the SWR brand same thing with the 444/450 refurb

At least here they actually made the effort to get rid of the orange poles and turn them blue

 

[Invincible]

Wall coverings don't really need a colour change as the colour still matches the SWR brand same thing with the 444/450 refurb

At least here they actually made the effort to get rid of the orange poles and turn them blue

from https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/class-458-juniper
But most of the orange poles installed for crowded inner London suburban use have gone as part of the refurb as they are not required for the Portsmouth line?

 

[RealTrains07]

from https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/class-458-juniper
But most of the orange poles installed for crowded inner London suburban use have gone as part of the refurb as they are not required for the Portsmouth line?

Yes and still the colour of the remaining poles in the 458s was changed from orange to blue which is still more than the 444/450s had in the refurb.

The 458s have had a good refurb from the looks of things. Clearly better than the desiro’s in some aspects.

 

[voithgearbox]

Saw a 458/4 running around Raynes Park today, couldn't identify unit numbers though. On RTT there's 5Q95/97 scheduled for 20/5-24/5 pathed 75mph EMU, guessing those are for 458/4 testing as well?

 

[Invincible]

Yes and still the colour of the remaining poles in the 458s was changed from orange to blue which is still more than the 444/450s had in the refurb.

The 458s have had a good refurb from the looks of things. Clearly better than the desiro’s in some aspects.

Presume the 458s are to be initially now based temporarily at the Wimbledon depot for testing?
If the 458/4s are to be used on the Hounslow line where 458/5 currently run, there is still the possibility trains could get crowded peak times between Isleworth and Waterloo, where the vertical grab bars (if retained) would have been useful for passengers forced to stand?

 

[Goldfish62]

If the 458/4s are to be used on the Hounslow line where 458/5 currently run, there is still the possibility trains could get crowded peak times between Isleworth and Waterloo, where the vertical grab bars (if retained) would have been useful for passengers forced to stand?

I think the 458/4s being 20% shorter than the 458/5s is a bigger factor.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

If the 458/4s are to be used on the Hounslow line where 458/5 currently run, there is still the possibility trains could get crowded peak times between Isleworth and Waterloo, where the vertical grab bars (if retained) would have been useful for passengers forced to stand?

It's going to be temporary. Yes, the trains are not in a configuration suited to the route but to prevent the "great stock shortage" from getting any worse, it has to be done. SWR doesn't really have any other options: the 458s are all going off for refurbishment, they've only got two 707s which they're having to hold onto for dear life, the 455s are starting to become less available, and the 701s still aren't ready

 

[Bikeman78]

The stupidity, incompetence and wastefulness is beyond belief. Thank goodness the 455s were retractioned (for what was thought to be a short remaining career) as without them SWR would have had to pretty much close down metro operations out of Waterloo.

They would have been fine with the original motors etc. So long as they are looked after, they will effectively go on forever.

 

[Goldfish62]

They would have been fine with the original motors etc. So long as they are looked after, they will effectively go on forever.

I doubt if the bodies would last forever. You can only do so much welding and corrosion repairs before bodywork loses its structural integrity. Then it's Game Over.

 

[Wokingham]

Do they not have the parts problems like turbos etc?

 

[Snow1964]

Do they not have the parts problems like turbos etc?

They are newer, and electric with fairly easy to maintain motors etc (and I think a version of commonly used onix control).

Rather easier than finding parts for 32+ year old diesel engines to a design that was obsolete years ago which are mated to old drives. The turbos were ordered for Thames Valley suburban, where half the fleet would park up between the peaks, not specified to be hammered all day long, nearly every day.

 

[43096]

They are newer, and electric with fairly easy to maintain motors etc (and I think a version of commonly used onix control).

Rather easier than finding parts for 32+ year old diesel engines to a design that was obsolete years ago which are mated to old drives. The turbos were ordered for Thames Valley suburban, where half the fleet would park up between the peaks, not specified to be hammered all day long, nearly every day.

I’m not entirely clear what is being referred to as some posts have been about 455s. The 458s, though, do indeed have Alstom’s Onix traction system.

 

[RealTrains07]

Is the installation of Plug/USB sockets part of the scope for the work done on the 458s?

 

[TEW]

Yes. One 3 pin and 2 USB sockets per pair of seats, underneath the middle of the pair.

 

[RUK]

So there's no money for an exam for a unit which would then go straight back into service, but there's money to pay for lots more 458/4 conversions, after which SWR / DfT propose to store them for several years then scrap them unused.

The stupidity, incompetence and wastefulness is beyond belief.

Are those 2 things not being paid for by different organisations (directly), TOC vs. ROSCO?

 

[DelW]

Are those 2 things not being paid for by different organisations (directly), TOC vs. ROSCO?

Possibly so, though the actual arrangements are often covered by "commercial confidentiality".

Ultimately though it seems that most railway costs are currently being met by taxpayers, partly defrayed by ticket revenue going to the government. In the case of the ROSCOs that's presumably by paying them their lease charges even when the trains are in long term storage.

I just wish the 458/4s could be put into their intended role of replacing 450s on Portsmouth services!

 

[Andy1673]

458508 planned to work this evening (with 458535) starting 5V45 off Wimbledon depot then 2V45-2C55-2C66-2O69-2K73 and to Strawberry Hill depot

 

[Juniper Driver]

The 458/4 conversions are already paid for, which is why they are happening

I thought everybody knew this.

 

[Dart34518]

458534 has ran out of miles to it's C4 exam and so must stop until that exam is done. As the cost of a C4 exam is quite significant, and the unit has no future after the 701s are introduced it has to be determined whether it is cost effective to do the exam and keep leasing the unit, or hand it back and getting some 458/4s into service. Remember some 455s are still getting C4s at Bournemouth and their life is likely to be short too.

According to RTT 8534 ran this morning on a peak Reading service. Squeezing remaining mileage out of it?

 

[Siemens Staines]

According to RTT 8534 ran this morning on a peak Reading service. Squeezing remaining mileage out of it?

458534 was paired with 458535 in the morning, and in the evening 458535 was paired with 458508 so effectively 458534 was replaced by the 3 month absentee 458508

 

[Dart34518]

458534 was paired with 458535 in the morning, and in the evening 458535 was paired with 458508 so effectively 458534 was replaced by the 3 month absentee 458508

It would seem it was out again last night and surprisingly again today.

 

[fgwrich]

Still got the Stagecoach blue on the strip below the window. Wall coverings look original, too.

They are. It's basically been a carpet and seats job, toilets remain the same.

Wall coverings don't really need a colour change as the colour still matches the SWR brand same thing with the 444/450 refurb

At least here they actually made the effort to get rid of the orange poles and turn them blue

Not exactly, the interior walls in the Desiro's are white. The grab handles needed doing as they were looking quite rough.

The oddest part though are the seats next to the doors where the vestibule walls where cut back when they were made more high capacity, but since this refurbishment has made them lower capacity, the new seats are almost next to the door.

 

[1nvicible]

They are. It's basically been a carpet and seats job, toilets remain the same.

There's been some wheelset updates to reinstate 100mph, dampers and a full exterior repaint with corrosion repairs as needed.