I am asked to pay £600 and will receive a Formal Warning if I agree that I try to avoid any fare. The incident was that I used my friend's photo card to buy a travel card with student discount. But I am actually a student. I told them the situation and I told them a prosecution will affect my visa application. But it seems they want to charge me more because of the possible negative effect of a prosecution. I feel desperate.
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Used my friend's photo card to buy a travel card with student discount
- Thread starter edcys
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I am asked to pay £600 and will receive a Formal Warning if I agree that I try to avoid any fare. The incident was that I used my friend's photo card to buy a travel card with student discount. But I am actually a student. I told them the situation and I told them a prosecution will affect my visa application. But it seems they want to charge me more because of the possible negative effect of a prosecution. I feel desperate.
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R
RailUK Forums
I think they want you to pay more due to the seriousness of your offence.
You have the choice to pay, or not to pay and have your day in court. As you say yourself, a conviction may impair your permission to remain in the country. You should take this into account.
You have the choice to pay, or not to pay and have your day in court. As you say yourself, a conviction may impair your permission to remain in the country. You should take this into account.
Could I ask why you didn't get your own photo card? If you are a student then it would have been a simple matter. The TOC will want an answer to this question.
The settlement amount has nothing to do with your visa application, it has to do with the seriousness of the offence. It's easy to get cards mixed up and attempt to tap in/out with the wrong card (the case you're making a comparison to). Your case is, basically, fraud and so will attract a higher fine if it goes to court.
£600 is a bit on the high side, but not unreasonable for a case involving presenting someone else's photocard to purchase a ticket.
I thought it makes no difference to use other person's photocard if I am a student. I used it for convenience but not for fare evasion. Clearly I was too native and should pay for my ignorance and I accept that. But they want me to agree that I would pay for any fare that I avoided. But I did not avoid and did not try to avoid. I don't think I am a criminal.
Is there any chance to argue about that?
What does 'a revenue protection case' mean?
The thing that really worries me is actually the Formal Warning. I don't know if I can get a visa with it.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Why would you think it was okay to use someone else's photo card?
Are you a student?
Do you have your own photo card?
Is your visa for the UK conditional on you being a student?
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Revenue Protection is what the railways (and others) do to ensure that they receive the money they are entitled to.
You tried to pay less for your travel than you were entitled to when you did not carry a valid discount card.
I don't know how they could make it any clearer that it's intended for use by the named person - it's got their picture on it!
Possibly. It depends on the answer to my other question - what exactly happened, how did you end up being questioned?
Sorry, I shouldn't have used jargon. Revenue protection is the generic term used for everything involved in preventing, detecting and prosecuting suspected fare evasion.
I was ignorant of law. I know I deserve a punishment.
I am a student.
I apply for my card after the incident.
I will switch my visa from Tier-4 to Tier-2 recently.
I guess the best I can have is to accept the Formal Warning and pay the penalty.
I think I have to accept the Formal Warning.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
That is probably the most sensible thing to do.
I am not an expert on visa matters but all things considered, it is unlikely the Home Office will know of a warning issued by a TOC - and even if they did, I'd be surprised if they were legally allowed to act on it.
A warning issued by a train operating company simply means that if you come to their attention again they are likely to prosecute. It won't impact a visa application.
If the warning is issued by the police, then it could impact a visa application but I don't think this is the case here.
If the warning is issued by the police, then it could impact a visa application but I don't think this is the case here.
BluePenguin
On Moderation
Being a student, I can relate. I think that it is unfair for any TOC to exploit more money out of you than the cost of the ticket. However using any ID with someone elses photo on is never a good idea - you would never use a friend's driving licence to buy a drink for example. On this basis saying that you didn't know you couldn't use your friend's card to buy cheaper tickets for yourself doesn't really wash.
On another note you are a student and can get you own photo card - which you should do. I would definitely apologise and offer to pay the difference between the discounted and undiscounted fare plus an amount of compensation which is more appropriate to your financial situation but still high enough to discourage you from doing this again.
I know this is probably not the best advice but just my opinion as a student. If it goes to court, apologise and negotiate but do not admit anything you did not do to get out more easily as it won't work. A friend of mine was slammed in court by Virgin last yesr and got away with only paying the cost of the original ticket. I wouldn't worry about your visa.
Surely it is in a TOCs interest to discourage fare evasion and ecourage the purchase nof tickets. Not make offenders fines so large that they cannot possibly afford to travel by train again - which in turn will see people re-offend.
On another note you are a student and can get you own photo card - which you should do. I would definitely apologise and offer to pay the difference between the discounted and undiscounted fare plus an amount of compensation which is more appropriate to your financial situation but still high enough to discourage you from doing this again.
I know this is probably not the best advice but just my opinion as a student. If it goes to court, apologise and negotiate but do not admit anything you did not do to get out more easily as it won't work. A friend of mine was slammed in court by Virgin last yesr and got away with only paying the cost of the original ticket. I wouldn't worry about your visa.
Surely it is in a TOCs interest to discourage fare evasion and ecourage the purchase nof tickets. Not make offenders fines so large that they cannot possibly afford to travel by train again - which in turn will see people re-offend.
Not sure how good an example this is since it's pretty commonplace, and the likely consequences of getting caught doing it are generally fairly mild. A better example might be using a friend's driving licence to drive a car...
Haywain
Veteran Member
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So, you think that students should be given carte blanche to evade their fares with no real penalty, whilst acknowledging that TOCs need to discourage such behaviour? Perhaps you could consider how contradictory that is, and how it might possibly work.
twpsaesneg
Member
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Technically, byelaw offences aside, by using someone else's photocard you have committed the offence of Fraud by false representation contrary to section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2
So it could be a whole lot worse.
Unless you were dealt with by a Police Officer, you are unlikely to have had any sort of formal warning - i.e. a Police Caution - that will show up on a PNC check.
I can't understand how it would be more "convenient" to use someone else's ID card. And if you really wanted to be pedantic, your friend - if they have allowed you to use their card - has committed conspiracy to commit fraud by false representation...
Personally, if I were you, I'd pay up the money and brush up on UK law.
BluePenguin
On Moderation
Common place? How common place it happens shouldn't matter though. Your "better" example might be more relatable to some people, but driving a car illegally surely has more severe consequence. I agree with you
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