Watford Junction to Euston - MG11 - Next steps?

[Zeeshm]

Hi,

I had an interesting journey into work this morning on my daily commute.

I normally get on at Watford Junction and off at London Euston (via London Midland) before continuing my journey into Canary Wharf by Tube.

I touched in at Watford Junction via pay as you go, and when my train came, due to the overcrowding in standard class accomodation and upon assuming i heard the train driver saying first class was declassified I continued move into 1st Class to sit down.

Revenue Protection officiers then entered the train and advised me to sit down.

I stayed calm, but advised I would like to purchase a 1st Class Single Fare into London Euston from WJ. The revenue inspector refused. I then advised him that I was recording the entire incident on my mobile phone.

It went on and on, he was asking me a variety of questions, to which I said I no longer wished to answer (i.e. where I got on etc, which I had already given him).

I then got off at London Euston, but didn't touch in again until i got to the barriers of London Euston Underground. He advised me that if I didnt wait for the BTP it would turn into a criminal matter, I advised him I was getting late for work and continued my journey. BTP turned up and I advised them I was on my morning commutte, willing to pay the full fare for a single journey and that the revenue protection officer was unwilling to do so. I also advised not at any point did I refuse to produce my ticket or provide my name and address (which I have documented on the video) and I advised I had recorded the whole incidient.

I didn't swear at the officer, nor become physical with him, I advised him that if he approached me or touched me I would be pursuing an assault charge and the etc. It did however become quite vocal at stages (my mistake and oversight I shouldnt of done this).

Instead of issuing a penalty notice, he waived his discretion and issued an MG11 and asked me a bunch of questions under "caution". I answered most of his questions, but provided a no comment answer on a couple. He then asked me to sign the notes, to which I refused knowing these could later be used as evidence in court.

He did however take my name and address when BTP turned up. I'm not entirely sure why they were there to be fair, but I didn't really care nor was I embrassed.

I am kicking myself because in hindsight a £30 fare would probably be much cheaper than taking a day off work to attend court,which this is going to lead too.

Any ideas on how to resolve outside of court? Or what the potential liabilty is.

FYI - I touched out at canary wharf, and perform the same back and forth commutte daily. I had about £50 on my oyster card.

Thanks

Zee

 

[rdwarr]

As a fellow commuter I just can't understand why you've behaved like this. If First Class was declassified then it would have been just as crowded as Standard. Did you really think you heard such an announcement or were you just chancing it?
From there on it just gets worse and worse. By the time I got to the bit where you were threatening officers with assault charges I was fuming, and that's as somebody on your side of the fence!
It looks like you've broken the law and failed any "attitude test" which might lead officers to show discretion with a colossal display of arrogance and self-importance.
So, that's got you where you are now; next you'll have to wait for any communication inviting you for your verision of events. But, if that version is anything like the above it's not going to go well.
Sorry to sound so negative.

EDIT: Just noticed that you've had problems before: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=70489

On that occasion fellow forum members also warned you about your attitude. We didn't learn how that one ended but, if you were prosecuted or negotiated a settlement, it will be likely to have a bearing on this one.

 

[hluraven]

A couple of confusing bits there, if you were sitting down in first class, how did the RPIs advise you to sit down? Were you trying to leave first class when you spotted the RPIs coming?

Then, if you believed first class was declassified, why would you try and purchase a first class ticket?

For your questions, it does depend on exactly what actually happened. If first class had been declassified, then you don't owe anything. If first class had not been declassified, then it depends if LM want to go to prosecution or are happy to accept an out of court settlement. Best to wait for the letter and respond honestly and completely to it, in an apologetic manner.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Hmm, having been a regular commuter on London Midland for the last 18 months I simply don't believe you.

If first class had been declassified then the RPIs would know this, and wouldn't enforce fares in first class. You would equally reply "the guard announced a declassified first class" and it would be sorted, you wouldn't ask for a first class fare. The RPIs on London Midland tend to be a reasonable bunch in my experience, although that might be because I've actually paid for my ticket.

I suspect you do what a lot of Watford commuters seem to do- get in first class thinking that the rules only apply to other people. And then, to top it off, you've thrown your toys out of the pram about how you "know your rights", and all that rubbish. Sadly, like a lot of Watford commuters, you're not so hot on your right not to sit in first class accommodation when you've not paid for it.

Fingers cross they make an example of you.

 

[bengley]

And just to clarify to the OP - if an RPI or other member of railway staff touches you to prevent you from leaving until such a time that a Police officer arrives, that is not assault. Railway staff have certain legal rights to detain, so you were wrong to threaten with assault charges (which wouldn't go anywhere even if you tried)

 

[yorkie]

Any ideas on how to resolve outside of court?

You could directly to London Midland for your actions and offering to pay the fare outstanding and whatever costs they've incurred so far. They may opt to accept a payment from you directly and avoid court or they may wish to proceed to court.

You may wish to consult the Legal section of our Ticketing Guide for more information and with particular reference to this section and this section.

I don't believe there is anything further to be gained from continuing this thread (if you disagree you are welcome to send me a PM). If you require further advice, you should strongly consider seeking professional legal advice even if it's only a 30 minute free consultation.