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Scotrail - RMT Strike Ballot
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ANorthernGuard
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let the union bashing begin.. so predictable
kylemore
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Yes the 22nd aimed at their employer's revenue but the 24th aimed squarely at the punters, they might have got more sympathy if they had kept it to days of maximum revenue loss but at least allowed people's travelling arrangements on Christmas Eve.
They've just lost my support no matter what the merits of the individual case is.
Kilted_Scot
Member
It depends, management will probably step in to work the trains and will probably work this service.
Geezertronic
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And quite rightly so...
michael769
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BBC Coverage including a public response from Scotrail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20713102
For balance the RMTs public position is reported as
Strong language on both sides..... This one might drag on for a bit
For balance the RMTs public position is reported as
Strong language on both sides..... This one might drag on for a bit
Captain Chaos
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Full wages? I was always under the impression that we are not paid when on strike. Has this changed then or am I missing something?
eastdyke
Established Member
From that link:
From the figures that I have seen the RMT members overwhelmingly did not vote.
From Scotrail:
Make of it what you will.
Captain Chaos
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Indeed. I had a girl once burst into tears when I asked her where she had come from and then pointed out she couldn't have come from said station as the train she had just got off hadn't stopped there. I got called an evil **** by people passing through the barriers for 'making her cry'.
The quote is meaningless without the whole conversation and background being known. Emotional blackmail is an easy one to pull off.
BBC Five Live have been covering this today, with Scotrail MD and RMT local convenor on separately. Scotrail pretty much repeat what's already been said, and don't think it will affect services too much. RMT guy refused to answer a direct question on whether the dates are aimed at causing maximum incovenience to the public, repeating the line about Scotrail procedures being wrong over and over.
I'm with @kylemore on this. Whatever the merits of the strike call, choosing two of the busiest travel days before Christmas is unacceptable. The ballot question may as well have been "do you want a couple of extra days off at Christmas"? :roll:
I'm with @kylemore on this. Whatever the merits of the strike call, choosing two of the busiest travel days before Christmas is unacceptable. The ballot question may as well have been "do you want a couple of extra days off at Christmas"? :roll:
BestWestern
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Oh dear, here we go again :roll:
As a rail worker myself, I do get a little uncomfortable at the number of strikes that occur over what appear to be rather dubious issues. Scotrail is well versed in emergency provision of Guards during strike action - though such an approach is highly dubious and can in no way be considered safe, but there we are - and will doubtless run a limited service over the core routes as they have done before.
Regarding the issues mentioned here, I would stick my neck out and pick up the on mention in the RMT's statement that the person concerned has suffered "a number of serious assaults". While Bob Crow would no doubt consider a dirty look to be a serious assault for the purpose of making a fuss here, a history of altercations can be a bad sign. Not always of course, but often. There will be plenty of Scotrail TE's who will have never been physically assaulted, so somebody who has allegedly suffered 'serious' assaults on a number of occasions could just be very unlukcy - or they might be doing themselves no favours in their dealings with difficult passengers.
The other thing which leaps out here, smothered in sad irony, is the RMT's repeated pleading that the staff are doing a job in 'difficult circumstances' - how much easier will that be when they have ruined Christmas for a significant proportion of the population of Scotland?!
As a rail worker myself, I do get a little uncomfortable at the number of strikes that occur over what appear to be rather dubious issues. Scotrail is well versed in emergency provision of Guards during strike action - though such an approach is highly dubious and can in no way be considered safe, but there we are - and will doubtless run a limited service over the core routes as they have done before.
Regarding the issues mentioned here, I would stick my neck out and pick up the on mention in the RMT's statement that the person concerned has suffered "a number of serious assaults". While Bob Crow would no doubt consider a dirty look to be a serious assault for the purpose of making a fuss here, a history of altercations can be a bad sign. Not always of course, but often. There will be plenty of Scotrail TE's who will have never been physically assaulted, so somebody who has allegedly suffered 'serious' assaults on a number of occasions could just be very unlukcy - or they might be doing themselves no favours in their dealings with difficult passengers.
The other thing which leaps out here, smothered in sad irony, is the RMT's repeated pleading that the staff are doing a job in 'difficult circumstances' - how much easier will that be when they have ruined Christmas for a significant proportion of the population of Scotland?!
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I'm booked on this and according to RMT website this is the situation.
∙ All our Sleeper Service members are instructed to take 24 hours of strike action by not booking on for any turns duty between 17.30 on Friday 21st December 2012 and 17.29 on Saturday 22nd December 2012.
∙ All our Sleeper Service members are instructed to take 24 hours of strike action by not booking on for any turns duty between 17.30 on Sunday 23rd December 2012 and 17.29 on Monday 24th December 2012.
The full Union statement is here. http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=166941
I think we'd have seen a bit more than 35% turnout for the vote then!
I'd be intrigued to know exactly what the Union could do if the other 65% did book on during the strike, after all they've not said they want to....
They also haven't said they don't want to strike. They've said they either don't care one way or the other or are prepared to go along with the decision of those who have voted. If they felt strongly about not striking they would have voted.
On the flip side if they felt strongly about it to want to walk out on strike they also would have voted. I don't think you can read the non-voting members opinion either way.
If 2,200 is all the RMT members that will include staff from a number of different functions, platform, revenue protection, guards, some ticket office and maybe a few drivers. Many of these may feel that it's nothing to do with them. Without seeing a breakdown it's hard to gauge what the situation is. I suspect that the number of people choosing actually to strike might be bigger on 24th than it is on 22nd...
ANorthernGuard
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If people can't be bothered to vote and then a strike is voted for by the people that were bothered then they have no one to blame but themselves.
I think the strikes would be a lot more interesting if only those who voted were actually allowed to strike. It confuses me why someone would be a member of a Union, pay the subs, watch someone become very rich, yet not take an active role.
PS I am a member of a Union and I have voted on every single mandate thats come down, not always yes either.
PS I am a member of a Union and I have voted on every single mandate thats come down, not always yes either.
Yes you can, and if you had read my whole post (all 20 odd words of it!) you would see it is very easy to draw that conclusion.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Not voting usually means the person has no strong views either way.
In the case of a strike vote I imagine that means in their opinion the pay/conditions are fairly good.
The thing with unions is if a pay rise or improvement in conditions are agreed then it's across the board. In a way the non-Union members are best off - no subscription to pay, they work and get paid for strike days and if industrial action is successful they benefit.
In the same way as if you don't vote in council elections you shouldn't have to pay the council tax, or if you don't vote in a general election you shouldn't have to abide by any laws passed by Parliament?
BrianTheLion
Member
The thing causing me the most concern is not the fact that Scotrail is striking on Xmas Eve but the fact that they have a virtual monopoly in the majority of Scotland and are basically bringing an entire nation to a potential halt.
Its all well and good if youre lucky enough to live in an area covered by TPE, XC, EC or Virgin but what if you don't?
I live near Greenock and have one train company and one bus company that covers this area, my elderly father is travelling from Newcastle via XC on Xmas eve and now has disruption to face at an already busy time.
What about the people booked on trains via the East Coast mainline that rely on connections at Edinburgh?
This decision to strike by these employees strikes of total selfishness and I hope that Karma comes back to bite each and every one of them in due course.
Its all well and good if youre lucky enough to live in an area covered by TPE, XC, EC or Virgin but what if you don't?
I live near Greenock and have one train company and one bus company that covers this area, my elderly father is travelling from Newcastle via XC on Xmas eve and now has disruption to face at an already busy time.
What about the people booked on trains via the East Coast mainline that rely on connections at Edinburgh?
This decision to strike by these employees strikes of total selfishness and I hope that Karma comes back to bite each and every one of them in due course.
Sadsmileyface
Member
Lets keep the language clear here- Scotrails not striking, RMT Members are striking. Not TSSA, not Aslef, not non members. Just some RMT.
It'll be interesting to see what the turnout is like. Will the 65% that didn't even vote honour the decision of those that did?
Great, so if it does go ahead and enough walk out we have to basically double our travel costs to get up to Aberdeen for Christmas . . . At least with it being so late there is no benefit in buying an advance ticket on EastCoast!
michael769
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During the last RMT stikes over DOO on the Airdrie to Bathgate , Scotrail managed to run 92% of services (rising to 95% of services on the final strike day), so it was substantially more than just over core lines - even the Shotts line (not known for being a priority) ran a full service.
My guess is that the proximity to the holiday will mean more will be willing to observe the strike (3 days instead of two will appeal to many) especially on the 24th. It will also be harder to raise enough management/outside "volunteers" to fill the gap at this item of year so there may be more of an impact.
The real test will be if it drags into the new year to see if observance can be maintained.
As for the relative positions of Scotrail and RMT, I think we can safely assume that both sides are exaggerating things a little.
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The problem then is that the people who actively voted not to strike would have to do so, even though those who never bothered would be working. That seems a rather bizarre state of affairs.
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Scotrail have posted an official annoucement:
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/rmt-announce-strike-dates-22-and-24-december
ainsworth said:
My guess is that the proximity to the holiday will mean more will be willing to observe the strike (3 days instead of two will appeal to many) especially on the 24th. It will also be harder to raise enough management/outside "volunteers" to fill the gap at this item of year so there may be more of an impact.
The real test will be if it drags into the new year to see if observance can be maintained.
As for the relative positions of Scotrail and RMT, I think we can safely assume that both sides are exaggerating things a little.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The problem then is that the people who actively voted not to strike would have to do so, even though those who never bothered would be working. That seems a rather bizarre state of affairs.
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Scotrail have posted an official annoucement:
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/rmt-announce-strike-dates-22-and-24-december
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Strange comparison. That's like saying people who don't vote in Trade Union votes shouldn't be allowed to be paid.
Of course the 24th is aimed at the public, i believe thats the whole point - to make an impact and cause as much disruption as possible.
The vast majority of the traveling public dont really care about the guy losing his job, all they want is a train to run on time, a seat on the train and a safe journey. So support is not what unions are setting out to achieved, what is to be achieved is the punters to be severely inconvenienced, moan and complain so Scotrail will be forced into acting.
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I find that statment bizarre from someone who works on the railways??
Unions in general, especially the rail unions (although several different ones) are historically built on solidarity, it would never happen
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Again call me old fashioned, and maybe im just instatutionalised but Unions are built on solidarity, the fact people are even saying this sort of stuff totally baffles me! Are you in a union? Do you understand the meaning of union????
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