Watford Blockades

[LNW-GW Joint]

I see the details of the revised Watford upgrade plan have been published on NRE: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/currentAndFuture.aspx

The line between Watford Junction and London Euston will be closed on the following weekends to allow for this work:

2014
Saturday 3 May 2014 to Monday 5 May 2014
Saturday 9 August 2014 to Monday 11 August 2014
Saturday 16 August 2014 to Monday 18 August 2014
Saturday 23 August 2014 to Tuesday 26 August 2014
Wednesday 24 December 2014 to Monday 29 December 2014

2015
Saturday 14 February 2015 to Monday 16 February 2015
Saturday 21 February 2015 to Monday 23 February 2015
Friday 3 April 2015 to Tuesday 7 April 2015

Details of the impact of the work on train services for the dates on and after 9 August 2014 will be published as soon as the train plans have been finalised

There then follows the usual impenetrable description of how services are going to be affected this first weekend.
In addition to the Watford blocks, the WCML is closed at Wigan and north of Oxenholme.
This results in Rugby-Warrington Pendolinos and Crewe-Manchester-Preston-Oxenholme Voyagers (running via Bolton).
Also MKC-Nuneaton-Liverpool and MKC-Birmingham-Manchester.

However important the reasons for the blockades, this series of closures is going to be miserable for many passengers, especially as there are no direct alternative services offered into Euston.
Basically it's King's Cross for Scotland/Carlisle, St Pancras for Crewe/Manchester/Liverpool/Preston, and Marylebone for Birmingham.
North Wales gets the short straw as usual, running west of Crewe only.

 

[DarloRich]

I see the details of the revised Watford upgrade plan have been published on NRE: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/currentAndFuture.aspx



There then follows the usual impenetrable description of how services are going to be affected this first weekend.
In addition to the Watford blocks, the WCML is closed at Wigan and north of Oxenholme.
This results in Rugby-Warrington Pendolinos and Crewe-Manchester-Preston-Oxenholme Voyagers (running via Bolton).
Also MKC-Nuneaton-Liverpool and MKC-Birmingham-Manchester.

However important the reasons for the blockades, this series of closures is going to be miserable for many passengers, especially as there are no direct alternative services offered into Euston.
Basically it's King's Cross for Scotland/Carlisle, St Pancras for Crewe/Manchester/Liverpool/Preston, and Marylebone for Birmingham.
North Wales gets the short straw as usual, running west of Crewe only.

And yet there was ceaseless whining about the longer blocks that were originally planned. In the end the plans were changed to more frequent but shorter blocks. How shall the replacement of two key junctions and associated track and signalling work be achieved without upsetting passengers?

Damned if you do and dammed if you don’t.

 

[philjo]

Are there any outline plans for services during the August blockade weekends available yet?
I will need to travel back to Hertfordshire from Southport on one of the Sundays in August - I'll probably go via Manchester & Leeds or Doncaster & use East Coast to Stevenage but will see what options VT are offering.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is a case of damned either way, but I'm not sure the contingency plans put in place are actually much use on the ground.

LM have gone to the trouble of providing ticket acceptance at St Albans City and at Chesham/Amersham, but they've not provided any way of actually getting to those stations. It's just about possible to get to St Albans from Hemel on the 300/301, once you've got into Hemel town from the station, but the bus service to Amersham is poor and Explorer tickets are not valid on it.

I don't understand why the RRB runs from Hemel to Stanmore, when an RRB to St Albans or Amersham would have been a) quicker and b) far more useful to most passengers affected.

 

[LeylandLen]

I'd like to know if its possible for Chiltern/Virgin to run a temporary Nuneaton - Coventry Warwick -Marylebone/Paddington DMU service .I know Virgin have run a service diverted from WCML at Nuneaton via the Chiltern lines and west London lines via West Ruislip-Ealing Broadway into Euston in the past during previous blockades of WCML but if its not possible to use Euston this time, then why not terminate the service at ,say , Paddington ,or West Ruislip where there is London Underground connection ???

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'd like to know if its possible for Chiltern/Virgin to run a temporary Nuneaton - Coventry Warwick -Marylebone/Paddington DMU service .I know Virgin have run a service diverted from WCML at Nuneaton via the Chiltern lines and west London lines via West Ruislip-Ealing Broadway into Euston in the past during previous blockades of WCML but if its not possible to use Euston this time, then why not terminate the service at ,say , Paddington ,or West Ruislip where there is London Underground connection ???

Euston isn't the problem, it's paths on the Chiltern route and round the houses at Ealing/Acton.
There is (or used to be) capacity on Sundays but it doesn't seem to be being used this time.
The reason may be because of the WCML closure at Wigan.
This means that Voyagers are needed for diversions via Bolton, so not enough for a Chiltern diversion.

 

[t_star2001uk]

AFAIK there will be diversion via High Wycombe in to Euston. For the past couple of months there have been Virgin driver route learning and refreshing over the Chiltern route. Virgin would not go to all of the expense of having drivers learn a route that they are never going to use.

 

[class303]

AFAIK there will be diversion via High Wycombe in to Euston. For the past couple of months there have been Virgin driver route learning and refreshing over the Chiltern route. Virgin would not go to all of the expense of having drivers learn a route that they are never going to use.

ahhhh noooo! :roll: I wanted to go to Northampton this weekend for Cobblers v Oxford. London midland saying "if you already have a London Midland ticket we have arranged for it to be valid on Chiltern, FCC, EMT, LO & LU"

Travelling to Wellingborough would also work for me. I don't have a ticket but if i buy an off peak day return for Saturday to Northampton (from bz3 with gold discount) tomorrow, will it be valid? I don't think it's fair I should have to pay much more via Wellingborough. Many thanks in advance.

 

[Welshman]

North Wales gets the short straw as usual, running west of Crewe only.

Indeed.

The journey planners are advising North Wales-London passengers to change at Crewe and Birmingham, stretch their legs with a walk from New St to Moor St, and join what will probably be a very crowded Chiltern service to Marylebone!

 

[IrishDave]

AFAIK there will be diversion via High Wycombe in to Euston. For the past couple of months there have been Virgin driver route learning and refreshing over the Chiltern route. Virgin would not go to all of the expense of having drivers learn a route that they are never going to use.

Well, surprisingly there will be NO diversions via High Wycombe this weekend. Virgin are usually quite good about running the "blockbusters", and I hope they run during the August and later blocks, but for the May Day weekend we must use other operators.

I think what happened is that, when they planned for a 16-day continuous blockade, they knew they couldn't run blockbusters (it just wouldn't fit in with Chiltern's weekday timetable), so they decided not to run them at all (even when they could) so as not to create high expectations for August which they couldn't meet. And perhaps the revised block plan didn't come soon enough for Virgin to organise diversions this coming May Day weekend.

 

[The Planner]

Virgin have been route learning it properly so it saves them a few quid on being route conducted. Are there any blocks on at Acton this weekend for Crossrail stuff? or around Willesden? as if there are then Virgin can't run them anyway.

 

[philjo]

Virgin are running hourly Crewe-Manchester-Oxenholme voyagers via Bolton this weekend (late afternoon/evening ones going through to Birmingham) due to the additional closure at Wigan so it probably means there are not enough voyagers available to be able to do both diversions with adequate train length/frequency on the same day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S13227/2014/05/03/advanced

 

[LowLevel]

ahhhh noooo! :roll: I wanted to go to Northampton this weekend for Cobblers v Oxford. London midland saying "if you already have a London Midland ticket we have arranged for it to be valid on Chiltern, FCC, EMT, LO & LU"

Travelling to Wellingborough would also work for me. I don't have a ticket but if i buy an off peak day return for Saturday to Northampton (from bz3 with gold discount) tomorrow, will it be valid? I don't think it's fair I should have to pay much more via Wellingborough. Many thanks in advance.

The gen is that any tickets to/from Northampton will be valid to Wellingborough including LM specific tickets. However there won't be any railway buses running between the two stations, you'll need to make your own way. Also if you turn up at Wellingborough station and want to buy a ticket for travel today as it were they won't sell from Northampton, they'll only sell from Wellingborough, if you want to buy one from Northampton you'll need to buy it elsewhere.

 

[Sacro]

Also if you turn up at Wellingborough station and want to buy a ticket for travel today as it were they won't sell from Northampton, they'll only sell from Wellingborough, if you want to buy one from Northampton you'll need to buy it elsewhere.

Pretty sure that's against the rules of being impartial, didn't GA get into trouble for this during the block on C2C at Southend?

 

[LowLevel]

No idea - that's just the example given that I've seen so provided for information purposes - take from it what you wish! I presume it's to stop the Wellingborough regulars from removing all EMT's revenue by buying cheaper Northampton tickets despite having no intention of going anywhere near Northampton.

 

[gordonthemoron]

people could always buy the tickets online and collect from Wellingborough

 

[class303]

The gen is that any tickets to/from Northampton will be valid to Wellingborough including LM specific tickets. However there won't be any railway buses running between the two stations, you'll need to make your own way. Also if you turn up at Wellingborough station and want to buy a ticket for travel today as it were they won't sell from Northampton, they'll only sell from Wellingborough, if you want to buy one from Northampton you'll need to buy it elsewhere.

thankyou. that's understandable. phew! for a minute i thought i'd have to pay more to be inconvenienced.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It'd be helpful if the journey planners implemented the "Alternative Routes During Disruption" maps, rather than just dumping the majority of Virgin's passengers on Chiltern! Even if Chiltern run 6 or 7 cars on all the Birmingham trains, there won't be enough capacity...and the 168s have less seats than the 165s to begin with.

 

[Geezertronic]

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

 

[DarloRich]

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

they dont care

 

[Tetchytyke]

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

We will do anyway, unless they manage to rebuild Euston in a day.

 

[Sanatogen]

Virgin have been route learning it properly so it saves them a few quid on being route conducted. Are there any blocks on at Acton this weekend for Crossrail stuff? or around Willesden? as if there are then Virgin can't run them anyway.

Pretty sure Euston is under possesion for most of the weekend, having to set up a single line working just to get the sleeper in and out.

 

[Vicpaul]

I'll be driving in all weekend as I don't think I could tolerate a replacement bus before and after 9 1/2 hours in the seat

 

[gordonthemoron]

presumably the sleepers are going via ECML?

 

[carriageline]

Yeah I think they are, and as said with SLW put in to get them to/from Wembley ICD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Philip Elliott]

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

This is a renewals project and several more like it will happen regardless of whether the line is 'upgraded' or not. Anybody who thinks building HS2 will end major engineering disruption on the WCML or ECML is living in La La land.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

This is a renewals project and several more like it will happen regardless of whether the line is 'upgraded' or not. Anybody who thinks building HS2 will end major engineering disruption on the WCML or ECML is living in La La land.

The WCML was disrupted a lot less than people seem to think during the WRCM and that was an appallingly managed project.

Remind us how many days the West Coast was shut during construction of the Nuneaton North chord..?

 

[Clip]

This is a renewals project and several more like it will happen regardless of whether the line is 'upgraded' or not. Anybody who thinks building HS2 will end major engineering disruption on the WCML or ECML is living in La La land.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This is a renewals project and several more like it will happen regardless of whether the line is 'upgraded' or not. Anybody who thinks building HS2 will end major engineering disruption on the WCML or ECML is living in La La land.

The WCML was disrupted a lot less than people seem to think during the WRCM and that was an appallingly managed project.

Remind us how many days the West Coast was shut during construction of the Nuneaton North chord..?

I doubt the person you quoted would ever deny it would end the closures on both arteries of our railway BUT their point was that HS2 would nullify the problems of diversions and bustitution. Which it would. Easily. For those on the main WCML routes

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The WCML was disrupted a lot less than people seem to think during the WRCM and that was an appallingly managed project.
Remind us how many days the West Coast was shut during construction of the Nuneaton North chord..?

The Trent Valley route was closed for months on end at weekends, for several years in a row.
How many times was the route through Stockport closed while the repeated upgrades were built and rebuilt?
Even now, there are repeated holiday closures of much of the line.

However necessary in engineering terms, bear in mind that the opposition (car, coach, airlines) do not shut up shop several times a year like the railway does.
As an aside, the GW closure at Reading seemed to be better managed than any of the WCML blocks - diversions into Waterloo and via Banbury for instance.
Why can't a 2-track timetable at Watford be operated as GW habitually do at weekends between Paddington and Reading?

 

[The Planner]

Parts of the blocks will be, Monday mornings are two track slow lines I think.

 

[LeylandLen]

It looks as though, on Realtimetrains, the Friday night Scotrail sleepers northbound ones to Glasgow , Inverness etc go on usual route on WCML via Crewe whereas the southbounds on Friday night are running via ECML and reversing at Wembley.