Most hated traction

[Deepgreen]

456's horrible pieces of tat & voyagers.

As for 442's, you lot don't know what you're on about. Best 3rd rail EMU going, it doesn't complain incessantly about a blocked bog, air con not working etc, etc, etc. It's a proper train, with proper brakes!

Agreed - 456s are the worst units I regularly encounter and I always plump for the accompanying 455 if possible. The 456s' legroom rivals an 11-compartment 4SUB for knee-jostling (there - I've dated myself)!

442s are excellent (apart from their apparent tendency to foul up the signalling/track circuitry outside London Bridge a while ago!), and retain the last slam doors on the 'southern' network (albeit an inward-facing guard's door!).
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Call me a philistine but I just don't get the Flying Scotsman hype and wibble.
To me it's just another kettle. A kettle that causes mayhem when it runs on the mainline.
I would definitely rather see 87001 running

When you say "it causes mayhem", I assume you mean the number of people it attracts to the line-side, and the small proportion who trespass? That problem would exist for any iconic vehicle on the railway - this one just happens to be 60103 (at the moment). I would be surprised if, for example, 'Mallard', didn't cause similar "mayhem" if it were ever to run on the main line again.

 

[sprinterguy]

Obviously pacers, 150, 153, 156, 158...

We run awful sprinters over some of the most beautiful lines in the world and passengers are totally unable to see out of the Windows. Settle and Carlise and all of the Scottish highland lines have noisy unfriendly sprinters.
Arrival have refused to roster any of their new "scenic" stock for the Settle and Carlise run hen they take over, much to the dismay of local groups in the area.
The U.K. Can be truly proud of having some of the most wonderful scenery in the world and just about the worst trains on the world that are totally unfit for the job.

I'm surprised to see such dislike for classes 156 and 158. In my opinion they make for excellent rural and regional express trains respectively. The 156s strike me as being cheap to run, straightforward to maintain and virtually indestructible (with respect to those which have been successfully rebuilt after serious accident damage), while the 158s are quiet and comfortable with a good turn of acceleration, as well as offering the flexibility to split and reform trains to any length desired en route, with corridor connections ensuring access throughout the train, as demonstrated on a daily basis with East Midlands, Arriva Trains Wales and South West Trains.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why is it, after all the debate on this thread, that I still see the Class 142 units, by their very nature, as still the top of my "hate" list.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why is it, after all the debate on this thread, that I still see the Class 142 units, by their very nature, as still the top of my "hate" list.

Because a completed 230 hasn't been unveiled yet...?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Obviously pacers, 150, 153, 156, 158, voyagers, meridians and no doubt the new Hitachii east coast electrics will join my list when then start to run. Why? Because they will the grossly inferior comfort wide when compared to HST and Mark 4 stock. On the last mock up I saw there were 20 seats in a carriage. Half of them had absolutely no view of the outside world as there weren't any Windows whatsoever.

Well at least no one can accuse you of exaggeration. Do you really think there will be only 20 seats in the class 800 / 801's? And that out of the total of 20 seats ten will have no view whatsoever? 20 seats in an Intercity train? Why not actually have a ride in one before slagging them off. Mind you this forum wouldn't be the same if members were not slagging something off because it had the audacity to replace their favourite train.

 

[keith1879]

I find most of the seats in Northern Rail class 150s with airline seats to be agonisingly uncomfortable - so they get my serious vote. But as an off the wall "dislike" I must name 'Linda'. Travelled up and down the FR to/from Dduallt too many times behind her in the 1970s and am very pleased that she is more rarely seen these days.

 

[satisnek]

Come to think of it, it's anything originally introduced by Virgin Trains that gets my vote, simply because it replaced a superior product in all cases. Airline operators should never be let near railways

And I've never been all that keen on the 172s. Today I had the luxury of a 170 for my journey up to Brum which made me realise just how much I've suffered during the past five years. OK, so it was a little scruffy and the display appeared to have hung up on "We are now approaching Droitwich Spa", but there were no crunching gear changes, no constant bing bong jabber jabber at DDA compliant volume levels, it had comfortable seats (by today's standards) and fripperies such as acoustic insulation, primary suspension and resilient engine mounts which the 172s appear to lack. Superb!

As for Pacers, I don't mind them because they don't pretend to be anything other than the most basic of basic passenger trains. In fact they're fun! (Although of course I'm not speaking as a Northern commuter...) My most memorable Pacer run was about a decade ago when one was on my service back from Bristol to Worcester. Don't know if this was a 75 or 90mph timing, it certainly lost a few minutes but through no fault of the driver or signals/speed restrictions. If you haven't had a Pacer ride at red line then you haven't experienced rail travel!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Come to think of it, it's anything originally introduced by Virgin Trains that gets my vote, simply because it replaced a superior product in all cases. Airline operators should never be let near railways

And I've never been all that keen on the 172s. Today I had the luxury of a 170 for my journey up to Brum which made me realise just how much I've suffered during the past five years. OK, so it was a little scruffy and the display appeared to have hung up on "We are now approaching Droitwich Spa", but there were no crunching gear changes, no constant bing bong jabber jabber at DDA compliant volume levels, it had comfortable seats (by today's standards) and fripperies such as acoustic insulation, primary suspension and resilient engine mounts which the 172s appear to lack. Superb!

As for Pacers, I don't mind them because they don't pretend to be anything other than the most basic of basic passenger trains. In fact they're fun! (Although of course I'm not speaking as a Northern commuter...) My most memorable Pacer run was about a decade ago when one was on my service back from Bristol to Worcester. Don't know if this was a 75 or 90mph timing, it certainly lost a few minutes but through no fault of the driver or signals/speed restrictions. If you haven't had a Pacer ride at red line then you haven't experienced rail travel!

You should try a pacer that has a driver thats willing to firewall the engine - sometimes you can just about get three figures

 

[40129]

For me its cl-150s. The most disgusting vile trains ever to disgrace the network imo. Should never have been introduced as replacements for cl-120 as they were completely unfit for this purpose - Cl-120 were comfortable cross country units whereas cl-150 are noisy, uncomfortable inner suburban cess pits

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You should try a pacer that has a driver thats willing to firewall the engine - sometimes you can just about get three figures

AIUI this wasn't unheard of in the days before OTMR, whether deliberate or because a driver forgot that there was a pacer coupled to his/her 158!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

AIUI this wasn't unheard of in the days before OTMR, whether deliberate or because a driver forgot that there was a pacer coupled to his/her 158!

Heard that forgetful driver story myself... I believe it.

However, this was a 142 with a more then willing driver that was shortly due for retirement anyway, so he decided to see what you could get them to do... 100.3 I seem to recall

 

[trentside]

To work, my least favourite traction is a 158. They're awkward simply as the layout on ours requires you to walk down the aisle in a slightly twisted way that gets uncomfortable after awhile. I also dislike the door controls, the dodgy air conditioning systems and the fact that they're generally temperamental.

As a passenger, I tend to rate units entirely by passenger comfort - for this the Pacer fleets get a mixed reception, I don't find the ex-ATN units as bad as the ex-Merseyrail units. I find that 153s also rate pretty poorly on general comfort!

 

[47403]

Mind you this forum wouldn't be the same if members were not slagging something off because it had the audacity to replace their favourite train.

I'll be honest, i probably fall into that bracket too, however I should hate the 158's, after all, BR had the audacity to have these replace loco hauled travel on the trans pennine route, for years I resented the bloody things, if thats small minded, then so be it.

However these days, theres very little loco wise and of the current limitations, I quite like riding on them, I much prefer a 156 but thats just me.

As regards the Flying Scotsman debate, I think the money that the NRM constantly throw at it is ridiculous but like someone has already said, it's appeal beyond us like minded souls, will probably see the loco get the money back in spades. I'd personally rather have seen D200, the Western or 31018 running again.

 

[satisnek]

Heard that forgetful driver story myself... I believe it.

However, this was a 142 with a more then willing driver that was shortly due for retirement anyway, so he decided to see what you could get them to do... 100.3 I seem to recall

This was on a steep downhill grade with a following wind I take it?

I can remember in the late '80s the challenge was to get a 150 round to 90. From my observations they maxed out at 87-88 back then (compared to the last time I got one from Crewe to the W Mids just before the 350s were introduced, I timed it at no more than 79).

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

This was on a steep downhill grade with a following wind I take it?

I can remember in the late '80s the challenge was to get a 150 round to 90. From my observations they maxed out at 87-88 back then (compared to the last time I got one from Crewe to the W Mids just before the 350s were introduced, I timed it at no more than 79).

It was rather windy that day as I recall...

 

[yorksrob]

Yesterday the 156 down to Whitby was full and standing from well before Battersby. By the time I caught the return a few hours later, Northern had very helpfully attached a 142 to the end.

I don't think I've ever been so grateful to see one, so much so that I sat in it all the way back to Middlesborough.

Maybe not the best unit ever designed, but great little crowd busters in the right circumstances.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Yesterday the 156 down to Whitby was full and standing from well before Battersby. By the time I caught the return a few hours later, Northern had very helpfully attached a 142 to the end.

I don't think I've ever been so grateful to see one, so much so that I sat in it all the way back to Middlesborough.

Maybe not the best unit ever designed, but great little crowd busters in the right circumstances.

Ah... I see you are converted to the Dark Side of the Force

 

[cj_1985]

Class 37s... they sound like a flatulent old man

 

[Johncleesefan]

I'm not trolling but I do like pacers, they don't deserve the stick they get. Sure they're rusty old buckets of cr@p with their problems but they're honest working mules.

153s on the other hand, eughhh

 

[yorksrob]

Ah... I see you are converted to the Dark Side of the Force

Maybe a little !

Would have been a different story had it been a Merseyrail monstrosity though

 

[sprinterguy]

And I've never been all that keen on the 172s. Today I had the luxury of a 170 for my journey up to Brum which made me realise just how much I've suffered during the past five years. OK, so it was a little scruffy and the display appeared to have hung up on "We are now approaching Droitwich Spa", but there were no crunching gear changes, no constant bing bong jabber jabber at DDA compliant volume levels, it had comfortable seats (by today's standards) and fripperies such as acoustic insulation, primary suspension and resilient engine mounts which the 172s appear to lack.

I personally think the 172s are excellent suburban units. Light, airy and fairly comfortable for the length of journeys that they serve. The 170s are excellent regional units, but the London Midland ones seem oppressively dark and restrictive on loading and unloading when used on shorter distance services: They're good for the likes of the longer Hereford and Shrewsbury runs that they're primarily allocated to, certainly.

I must admit to being bemused today when the auto-announcements on the 172 I was travelling on was "welcoming aboard" passengers at request stops we hadn't even stopped at!

The 172s are a quantum leap in terms of passenger comfort beyond the 150s that they replaced, and I am thankful that they entered service before I became a daily traveller on the Snow Hill lines. Although, speaking of 150s...

 

[sprinterguy]

For me its cl-150s. The most disgusting vile trains ever to disgrace the network imo. Should never have been introduced as replacements for cl-120 as they were completely unfit for this purpose - Cl-120 were comfortable cross country units whereas cl-150 are noisy, uncomfortable inner suburban cess pits

A well refurbished 150, such as those found with Arriva Trains Wales, can make for a very good inner suburban or rural train. However, it is astonishing how many of the units are still running around with their original appalling interiors, thirty years after they were introduced, and even more astonishing that they were ever considered suitable for regional trans-pennine and midlands services as they were used when new.

 

[Bungle965]

A well refurbished 150, such as those found with Arriva Trains Wales, can make for a very good inner suburban or rural train. However, it is astonishing how many of the units are still running around with their original appalling interiors, thirty years after they were introduced, and even more astonishing that they were ever considered suitable for regional trans-pennine and midlands services as they were used when new.

The only problem is when Arriva stick them on the long distance services, only then do you realize how much you miss that tatty 175!
Sam

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

A well refurbished 150, such as those found with Arriva Trains Wales, can make for a very good inner suburban or rural train. However, it is astonishing how many of the units are still running around with their original appalling interiors, thirty years after they were introduced, and even more astonishing that they were ever considered suitable for regional trans-pennine and midlands services as they were used when new.

Indeed...

A better question is why the double post prevention system does not work

 

[kevjs]

Most of my journeys are around Nottingham so the traction is rather limited (No Pacers here)

1. East Midlands Trains HST's - uncomfortable seating, feels like you're on a bouncy castle, the horrid fixed arm rests and complete lack of legroom in the airline seating (oh, and having to lean out the window to open the door - that's so confusing and daft, it was 2015 before I encountered that for the first time on non-heritage railway trains and it's just so archaic)

2. CrossCountry's Turbostars. Never used to mind these when they were with Central Trains (apart from when they were overcrowded) but CrossCountry's sound like they are falling to bits.

3. Northern Line's 1995 Stock - the celings are low enough in them that I can't stand up straight unless I'm in the middle of the train, but which eejit compounded that by putting a grab rail across the door way? My head hates you!

 

[43096]

Most of my journeys are around Nottingham so the traction is rather limited (No Pacers here)

1. East Midlands Trains HST's - uncomfortable seating, feels like you're on a bouncy castle, the horrid fixed arm rests and complete lack of legroom in the airline seating (oh, and having to lean out the window to open the door - that's so confusing and daft, it was 2015 before I encountered that for the first time on non-heritage railway trains and it's just so archaic)

2. CrossCountry's Turbostars. Never used to mind these when they were with Central Trains (apart from when they were overcrowded) but CrossCountry's sound like they are falling to bits.

3. Northern Line's 1995 Stock - the celings are low enough in them that I can't stand up straight unless I'm in the middle of the train, but which eejit compounded that by putting a grab rail across the door way? My head hates you!

I must remember to find that Northern line extension next time I'm in Nottingham...

 

[Tulyar]

All multiple Units, everything without a locomotive at the front of proceedings...

 

[kevjs]

I must remember to find that Northern line extension next time I'm in Nottingham...

Nottingham does have direct services to London from where it always seems to be Northern Line journeys to wherever I'm going...

 

[GatwickDepress]

This is a bit of an odd one, but Southern's Class 313s. They're nice enough on quiet services, but as soon as it gets busy, you can never comfortably squeeze four people into the 2x2 seats without knocking knees.

All multiple Units, everything without a locomotive at the front of proceedings...

:roll:

 

[43096]

Nottingham does have direct services to London from where it always seems to be Northern Line journeys to wherever I'm going...

Amazed you can get on/off the train to London with those door handles. I take it your house has power operated doors and not an old-fashioned door handle?