Locomore Stuttgart to Berlin

[eisenach]

I couldn't find anything on here about this. Reported on the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39579538

Germany's new train firm on track
12 April 2017 Last updated at 12:15 BST

Germany's state-owned railway group Deutsche Bahn dominates services in the country, but it has a new rival.
Launched in December of last year, Locomore runs services between Berlin and Stuttgart.
Locomore was set up thanks to a 1m euro ($1m; £850,000) crowdfunding campaign.

The link includes a video report.

And from Wikipedia (in German):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomore
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ES64U2

An interesting development in several respects: re-use of upgraded older stock; eco credentials through sourcing renewable electricity; crowd-funding start-up; non ICE stock on high-speed lines, not to mention competition for DB.

 

[30907]

Thanksi for the link, must have a look when I'm in Berlin next month.

As a detail, the use of non-ICE stock on new-build high speed lines is not new, as at least Goettingen-Hannover and Hannover-Berlin have 2-hourly IC services.

 

[bspahh]

There were some pictures from the Man at Seat 61 back in December.
https://twitter.com/seatsixtyone/status/808916449637126144

I've not been on them, but I've seen some of the coaches in sidings just West of Ostbahnhof in Berlin, and at Stuttgart Hbf in the evening. It arrives about 9pm.

 

[duesselmartin]

Services have already been reduced. It seems to suffer the same fate as HKX running only a token service off season

 

[Merseysider]

What might be the likelihood of these services still being around at the end of June? I'm in Berlin for a weekend and curiosity will probably get the better of me ...

 

[30907]

What might be the likelihood of these services still being around at the end of June? I'm in Berlin for a weekend and curiosity will probably get the better of me ...

I dont think Locomore is about to fold. Basically 5 says out of 7 but daily when there's a national public holiday - which covers the first two full weeks of June (Pentecost Monday and Corpus Christi - which isn't a nationwide holiday but never mind!).

 

[JonathanP]

The services weren't reduced because of lack of money, as per HKX, but because they realised soon after launch that running a 7 day a week service with a single set of coaching stock quickly led to a build of up faults with toilets, doors and electrical system that couldn't be fixed in the 8 hours available overnight before the round trip starts again.

For a while they ran only 4 days a week, but now they are on top of the maintenance again it is up to 6. They have also added a couple of extra un-refurbished carriages to cater for demand. So while it's difficult to tell, I think they are doing OK.

Now that Flixbus has a monopoly on domestic long distance coach service in Germany prices have shot up. I am taking a trip on Locomore from Berlin to Frankfurt next month for €17, which is not just a chance to try it out, but also the cheapest price available on that day across all modes of transport

 

[Bletchleyite]

The key difference from HKX is that they aren't really a TOC, they're more a ticket sales company who contract operation out - it'd be like setting up an Open Access operation but contracting its entire running to West Coast Railways or something. Locomore, much as they are having a steep learning curve, are a bit different in actually owning the coaches and employing staff (though locomotives and drivers are hired).

Edit: A couple of interesting things...the guards are also contracted, it seems. Also they are a former shareholder in HKX. Interesting.

 

[Groningen]

This is the current schedule: https://locomore.com/en/schedule/

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I used the Locomore way back in December on the first Saturday and I really enjoyed it.
Comfortable seats in compartments, friendly staff (addressing the passenger with "ihr/du" and not with "Sie"), working free Wifi (before DB made its Wifi free in 2nd class as well), tasting alternative food, a very cheap fare (I think it was €13 from Kassel to Berlin for two persons); in general just a nice journey.

I’m really looking forward to them introducing a return trip from Berlin to Cologne via the Ruhrgebiet, as this is one of DB’s most successful ICE route, so surely they will have many passengers there as well (at least me).

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'd rather use an ICE

 

[Bletchleyite]

friendly staff (addressing the passenger with "ihr/du" and not with "Sie")

That could also be considered overfamiliar and is perhaps a risky strategy.

It's like salespeople calling you by your first name.

 

[gordonthemoron]

That could also be considered overfamiliar and is perhaps a risky strategy.

It's like salespeople calling you by your first name.

I'd agree with that

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Locomore went into insolvency proceedings today: https://www.insolvenzbekanntmachung...2017_05_11__01_34_20_Sicherungsmassnahmen.htm and German rail forums are already discussing: https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?002,8178849

I hope this is not the end for them, I think they made a very good contribution to the German railways.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't massively surprise me, sadly. They seemed to have bit off more than they could chew.

 

[duesselmartin]

Locomore homepage suggest that the last train will run tomorrow. Anything after that is uncertain.

 

[Harbornite]

That's a shame.

 

[Groningen]

Indeed the train at 6.21 from Stuttgart ran.

Source: Stuttgarter Zeitung

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though that's a charter rake I think?

 

[eastwestdivide]

It might not be in Locomore livery, but the departure board indicates that it's Locomore's 0621 departure from Stuttgart.

Newspaper story here:
http://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/i...sse.cf6d0a57-ecf9-4cf2-9320-acdb0f22e562.html

which says:

...Stolze neun Wagen lang ist der Locomorezug an diesem Freitag. Nur fünf davon sind in den für das junge Unternehmen so typischen Orangetönen gehalten, der Rest des Wagenparks wirkt etwas zusammengewürfelt...

i.e. only 5 coaches of the 9-coach train were in the company's orange livery, the rest looking like they were thrown together.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Up to 9 isn't bad. But I did still wonder how all the infrastructure of a company could be profitable for one return journey per day, and not even every day either.

UK open access, which does seem to sometimes work where it's tried, involves at least three trips.

 

[duesselmartin]

Being crowd funded, there was nobody in the background that could bridge a financial gap. €600,000 wasnt that much to start off with.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Their original train is five coaches but due to heavy demand they chartered additional coaches.

In their statement, they said an investor "jumped off" Tuesday evening. All trains to the 15th of May are cancelled, but there's a slim chance they'll restart afterwards.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The Access Charges payable by the Open Access in DE seem to be about 2-3 times higher than in the UK, thus making the operation really tough to work. And it's all dedicated tickets: so you get no share of the interavailable revenue, as you do here...

 

[duesselmartin]

What makes access charges so expenses in some countries? Does that comparision include similar lines. Electric and 200 kph? That high speed lines costs more than branches makes sense but beyond that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Access Charges payable by the Open Access in DE seem to be about 2-3 times higher than in the UK, thus making the operation really tough to work. And it's all dedicated tickets: so you get no share of the interavailable revenue, as you do here...

It is to be fair possible for a German open access operator to join the (kilometric) regional ticketing system if they wish. HKX did for a bit, but found it uneconomic/more hassle. The IC/ICE one is DB's commercial preserve.

 

[MarcVD]

What makes access charges so expenses in some countries? Does that comparision include similar lines. Electric and 200 kph? That high speed lines costs more than branches makes sense but beyond that?

Countries decide that individually. High access charges is often seen as a way to protect the historic operator from competition.

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[gordonthemoron]

Countries decide that individually. High access charges is often seen as a way to protect the historic operator from competition.

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It's also what killed off the CNL Paris-Berlin sleeper in Belgium (DB rerouted it via Frankfurt instead)

 

[MarcVD]

Not only that. SNCB did not want to keep the Brussels station open at the time the train stopped there.

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[duesselmartin]

Not only that. SNCB did not want to keep the Brussels station open at the time the train stopped there.

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Considering the train also stopped at Liege, it cannot have been that early or late.