Trivia: Lines proposed but never built (or where a line should have been built)

[Clansman]

An interesting idea, but maybe off topic? Blair had a branch from Coupar Angus - the terminus site was pretty much where Tesco is now - so doesn't satisfy this thread. But I agree that the place could do with a big perk up, it's become the backwater of Perthshire.

Presumably, your new route would follow the old Caledonian main line from Stanley to beyond the Tay crossing, and then head there directly rather than via Coupar?

Agree with you that the area is definitely the backwater of Perthshire.

Ideally, the route would go via Coupar Angus, but direct to Blairgowrie would be a decent starting point I reckon. For a town (and surrounding areas) with a population of ~10,000 the transport links are far from sufficient, both on road and rail.

I do feel however that somebody, somewhere, is missing a trick by not considering a station at Inveralmond though.

On another note, it's a great shame Scone is in the worst location possible when it comes to possible connectivity with rail.

 

[Springs Branch]

Wigan Central station was the terminus of a moderately obscure branch line from the Cheshire Lines at Glazebrook, heading northwards via Lowton St Mary's. Although originally built mainly for coal traffic, by the 1890s, the line's owner, the MS&LR (which became the Great Central) apparently had aspirations to continue this branch beyond Wigan and build its own line to Blackpool, independent to the L&Y and LNWR.

The station at Wigan Central was constructed to allow for extension northwards, but it never went any further - I'm not sure how far the proposal got with Parliamentary authorization etc.

Incidentally there was a short street in Wigan town centre known as Watkin Street which ran from Crompton St up to Wigan Central station in Station Rd (Watkin St is now bulldozed under a shopping centre development). It took many years for the penny to drop that this street was almost certainly named after Edward Watkin (of Great Central, Metropolitan Railway & Channel Tunnel fame), who would have been behind this cunning plan at the time the station and street were constructed.

 

[mr_jrt]

The Bushey extension of the Northern Line (together with the Northern Heights plan). Ditched in the aftermath of WW2 - but would have been of use now.

Indeed it would be useful now. The 142 buses that serve Brent Cross to Watford Junction are rammed in the peaks despite running with a double decker service every few minutes, not to mention the Bushey to Watford section is doubled up with the 258 service from Harrow and Wealdstone yet still the buses are rammed.

Had the Watford and Edgware Railway made it off the blocks then I suspect you'd have a much more efficient network in those regions today.

Wouldn't that also have required abandoning the Green Belt, and changing the M1 alignment which allegedly cut through the tunnels?

The M1 alignment came later, much later. The green belt wouldn't necessarily have needed abandoning, it just meant there would have been areas around Brockley Hill and Elstree Hill South that would have been a bit underdeveloped.

 

[A0wen]

Blairgowrie needs a rail link, no question about it. A 10 mile extension to branch off from Stanley Junction to Blairgowrie, along with stations in both Stanley and Blairgowrie, and possibly another one at Inveralmond, would transform public transport in Perthshire and would benefit the local economy massively.

You're joking - and I know the area as we've got friends up there.

The road network around there is fine - there are rail links fairly close by at Dunkeld, Perth and Dundee.

Blairgowrie isn't a even a small town - a large village would be a better definition of it.

Haverhill in Cambs is three times the size of Blairgowrie - a far better candidate.

 

[Rob F]

The branch up the Worth Valley from Keighley to Oxenhope was planned to be extended to Hebden Bridge. I believe they got as far as staking out the route over the moors but nothing ever came of it.

Rob

 

[Essan]

The Scrabster Line should probably be open today, but Laxford Bridge seems just plain daft to me.

I would assume the intention was to also build a port there for herring boats? As was proposed for Glenuig and happened at Mallaig.

 

[Clansman]

You're joking - and I know the area as we've got friends up there.

The road network around there is fine - there are rail links fairly close by at Dunkeld, Perth and Dundee.

Blairgowrie isn't a even a small town - a large village would be a better definition of it.

Not joking at all. Just look at what similar line or station reopening have done to similar sized places like Laurancekirk, for example.

The road network around Blairgowrie is poor. Just country roads which the majority of the time, are congested.

You clearly must underestimate the area if you think it's current transport situation is adequate.

Haverhill in Cambs is three times the size of Blairgowrie - a far better candidate.

Never realised it was a competition

 

[edwin_m]

Indeed it would be useful now. The 142 buses that serve Brent Cross to Watford Junction are rammed in the peaks despite running with a double decker service every few minutes, not to mention the Bushey to Watford section is doubled up with the 258 service from Harrow and Wealdstone yet still the buses are rammed.

Had the Watford and Edgware Railway made it off the blocks then I suspect you'd have a much more efficient network in those regions today.

The M1 alignment came later, much later. The green belt wouldn't necessarily have needed abandoning, it just meant there would have been areas around Brockley Hill and Elstree Hill South that would have been a bit underdeveloped.

The entire catchment of the Bushey Heath extension as proposed by the Underground was designated as green belt after WW2, so if built it would have served virtually nobody except the Aldenham depot, which was only there because of the Underground line. Bushey Heath station was to be well to the east of the community of that name (served by the 142 and 258) so the intention was obviously to create new development rather than serving what already existed.

The design of the Bushey Heath terminus did allow for further extension to Bushey and Watford (reviving a much earlier proposal). This would have overlapped with the 142/258 catchment, but that was never part of the Northern Heights plans and would merely have provided an alternative to the Bakerloo/DC lines rather than facilitating new housing within commuting distance of London.

While I agree that some of the Northern Heights proposals south of Edgware might have been worth reviving after WW2, the Green Belt designation effectively killed the Bushey Heath extension.

 

[DerekC]

Dorchester to Axminster (and therefore Exeter) via Bridport. That would have been a good one and well used now, I think.

Also Bishops Waltham to Petersfield - nice but probably vulnerable to Beeching.

Lymington to Yarmouth IOW via the Solent Tunnel. That would have been an interesting one. Probably still existing, but it's a long way round to the Island from anywhere except Bournemouth. It would have kept a lot more of the Isle of Wight network in being, though.

 

[Spartacus]

The Midland once had a grand plan to avoid Leeds to get to Carlisle via Bradford, junctioning off their line at Royston, just North of the present site of Monk Bretton glass works, with a station at Dewsbury, then up the Spen Valley (giving that three competing lines!), then completed with a line through Bradford.

Ultimately some sense was seen with the Midland gaining running powers on the L&Y to Bradford and continuing to route trains via Leeds, but not before the line had been built to Dewsbury where it terminated with a goods yard only, a spur linking this line to the L&Y near Healey Mills had a flying junction on the MR side emphasising that the line was intended to carry express traffic. Heavily engineered with a number of viaducts (including a rail bridge over a road bridge over a rail bridge outside Dewsbury), cuttings, tunnels, and more tunneling no doubt needed had they continued past Dewsbury, it lasted less than 45 years.

Some sections have long been reclaimed by agriculture, but others would make excellent cycle paths, the route having surprisingly little housing built along it.

 

[4141]

Wigan Central station was the terminus of a moderately obscure branch line from the Cheshire Lines at Glazebrook, heading northwards via Lowton St Mary's. Although originally built mainly for coal traffic, by the 1890s, the line's owner, the MS&LR (which became the Great Central) apparently had aspirations to continue this branch beyond Wigan and build its own line to Blackpool, independent to the L&Y and LNWR.

The station at Wigan Central was constructed to allow for extension northwards, but it never went any further - I'm not sure how far the proposal got with Parliamentary authorization etc.

Incidentally there was a short street in Wigan town centre known as Watkin Street which ran from Crompton St up to Wigan Central station in Station Rd (Watkin St is now bulldozed under a shopping centre development). It took many years for the penny to drop that this street was almost certainly named after Edward Watkin (of Great Central, Metropolitan Railway & Channel Tunnel fame), who would have been behind this cunning plan at the time the station and street were constructed.

Thanks for that - I never knew until today that when we went to the all niters at Wigan Casino back in the 70's we were actually parking on the site of a station!

 

[adrock1976]

The Oxford and Rugby Railway was partially constructed, with the section beyond Fenny Compton (where it would meet up with the Birmingham & Oxford Junction Railway) to Rugby not being built.

Both of these routes became part of the Great Western Railway, and forms the present day Oxford General - Banbury - Leamington Spa - Birmingham (all three stations) route.

 

[PaulLothian]

I would assume the intention was to also build a port there for herring boats? As was proposed for Glenuig and happened at Mallaig.

I would hope they had some bigger purpose than providing a service to the handful of houses around Laxford Bridge. Very often, proposals to build such railway lines were part of a wider strategy: "we'll give up the Laxford Bridge plan if you let us do X instead".

Mallaig was of course not the originally intended destination of that line. It was planned to stop instead at Roshven, further south and a much better anchorage, but they couldn't buy the land! No compulsory purchase in those days.

 

[Helvellyn]

AFAIK there were never any plans to extend the Windermere branch beyond Windermere.

Extending it westwards would probably have been a no-no because of Lake Windermere, but maybe it could have been extended northwards to Keswick with an intermediate station at Grasmere (and possibly also at Ambleside and Thirlmere).

It would have been good for tourism, and could also potentially have provided another diversionary route for the WCML. Not sure how practicable it would have been to build, though.

The Lake District has never been very well served by railways, even when you had the Penrith-Keswick-Workington line and the present day Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway ran through to Ulverston.

I think there were proposals to extend the line further along the shore of Windermere towards Ambleside, but then again the whole Kendal & Windermere line faced a lot of opposition headed up by none other than William Wordsworth. Little known fact is that the line terminated in the village of Birthwaite, just over half a mile from the lake. Only later did the village become known by the same name as the lake.

If the Lancaster & Carlisle railway had taken the proposed more Westerly route through Kendal, along Longsleddale and then under the Gatescarth Pass into Mardale history might have been very different. The Windermere branch might not have been built (because one of the reasons for it was to connect Kendal to the WCML) and Haweswater Reservoir would have been a lot harder for the Manchester Corporation to get built with a mainline railway running along the shore of Haweswater lake!

 

[Oxfordblues]

The North Wales Narrow-Gauge Railway had ambitious plans to create a network including a line from Beddgelert up the Gwynant Valley to Pen-Y-Gwryd and down via Capel Curig all the way to Betws-Y-Coed. What a spectacular line that would have been! It was authorised by Act of Parliament in 1872 but never built, though there are some traces of initial earthworks near Beddgelert.

 

[backontrack]

Blairgowrie needs a rail link, no question about it. A 10 mile extension to branch off from Stanley Junction to Blairgowrie, along with stations in both Stanley and Blairgowrie, and possibly another one at Inveralmond, would transform public transport in Perthshire and would benefit the local economy massively.

An interesting idea, but maybe off topic? Blair had a branch from Coupar Angus - the terminus site was pretty much where Tesco is now - so doesn't satisfy this thread. But I agree that the place could do with a big perk up, it's become the backwater of Perthshire.

Presumably your new route would follow the old Caledonian main line from Stanley to beyond the Tay crossing, and then head there directly rather than via Coupar?

I agree heavily. It's the largest town in Perthshire nowadays.

I think you could reach Scone - possible by branching off the Perth-Dundee line slightly east of Moncreiffe Island - but it might not be worth the expenditure. Blairgowrie, however, I can definitely get behind. It would open up Glenshee and prove especially useful getting tourists in for the Blairgowrie Highland Games.

 

[route:oxford]

Lines connecting the mainland to Islands are probably key ones.

I'm sure I've read proposals over the years that suggested railway tunnels or bridges to the:-

Isle of Wight
Isle of Bute
Isle of Skye
Isle of Mann

and of course, Northern Ireland.

 

[och aye]

Gullane to North Berwick was a planned line that was never built.

 

[lejog]

The branch up the Worth Valley from Keighley to Oxenhope was planned to be extended to Hebden Bridge. I believe they got as far as staking out the route over the moors but nothing ever came of it.

Rob

Over the moors??? As a frequent walker in the area, I had severe doubts about this and having checked local OS maps, it would need a 240m climb in 3km, about 1 in 12. As the KWVR website says:

The line has always terminated here (Oxenhope), although press speculation of an extension to Hebden Bridge has at times been suggested. This has never been a serious proposition however.

 

[Spartacus]

Over the moors??? As a frequent walker in the area, I had severe doubts about this and having checked local OS maps, it would need a 240m climb in 3km, about 1 in 12. As the KWVR website says:

I wonder if there's a bit of confusion between that and the Rishworth branch, intended to tunnel through to Littleborough, until it was realised the time savings were insignificant compared to the costs.

Another one that made it to branch line status but could have been more was the LNWR branch from Batley to Birstall, which was proposed to run to Bradford, serving a number of collieries on the way. The gained running powers over the GNR instead. Birstall eventually gained a through station some years later when the LNWR built it's Leeds New Line, also serving one of the collieries, though the station like many on that line was quite a distance away from the town.

 

[Clansman]

I agree heavily. It's the largest town in Perthshire nowadays.

I think you could reach Scone - possible by branching off the Perth-Dundee line slightly east of Moncreiffe Island - but it might not be worth the expenditure. Blairgowrie, however, I can definitely get behind. It would open up Glenshee and prove especially useful getting tourists in for the Blairgowrie Highland Games.

How rude of me to forget Crieff in all of this!

 

[Chris125]

The North Wales Narrow-Gauge Railway had ambitious plans to create a network including a line from Beddgelert up the Gwynant Valley to Pen-Y-Gwryd and down via Capel Curig all the way to Betws-Y-Coed. What a spectacular line that would have been! It was authorised by Act of Parliament in 1872 but never built, though there are some traces of initial earthworks near Beddgelert.

They wanted to go yet further, to reach the Ruthin and Cerrig-y-Drudion Railway - that line also saw some initial construction, with some earthworks visible west of Ruthin.

Further south construction was started on the Neath & Brecon branch from Devynock (Sennybridge) to Llangammarch on the Heart of Wales Line; there are many miles of earthworks at the southern end.

 

[Cowley]

They wanted to go yet further, to reach the Ruthin and Cerrig-y-Drudion Railway - that line also saw some initial construction, with some earthworks visible west of Ruthin.

Further south construction was started on the Neath & Brecon branch from Devynock (Sennybridge) to Llangammarch on the Heart of Wales Line; there are many miles of earthworks at the southern end.

Very interesting Chris. When I've got some time tomorrow I'll do a bit of digging on this (pardon the pun).

 

[och aye]

How rude of me to forget Crieff in all of this!

Good Crieff, how could you?!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

A small length that I think should have been built is a east-west chord from the SWML to the Heart of Wessex (HoW) line to allow trains from east of Dorchester access to the HoW line without reversing (and possible a single join station for both lines)

 

[Domeyhead]

Dorchester to Axminster (and therefore Exeter) via Bridport. That would have been a good one and well used now, I think.

Also Bishops Waltham to Petersfield - nice but probably vulnerable to Beeching.

Lymington to Yarmouth IOW via the Solent Tunnel. That would have been an interesting one. Probably still existing, but it's a long way round to the Island from anywhere except Bournemouth. It would have kept a lot more of the Isle of Wight network in being, though.

On a more modest scale if the tiny but firecely independent Freshwater and Newport railway had pushed another two miles westwards to Totland it would have tapped into a few more customers and in the present day would be a real boon to West Wight. If it had looped a little closer to the centre of Yarmouth it would also have served the Lymington to Yarmouth ferry and created a genuinely useful transport interchange. I could just see a class 153 usefully trundling up and down from Totland to Newport today.

 

[A0wen]

A small length that I think should have been built is a east-west chord from the SWML to the Heart of Wessex (HoW) line to allow trains from east of Dorchester access to the HoW line without reversing (and possible a single join station for both lines)

For what possible purpose? If used it would be avoiding Weymouth, which seems illogical given it's where alot of the traffic flows to / from.

 

[nw1]

Dorchester to Axminster (and therefore Exeter) via Bridport. That would have been a good one and well used now, I think.

Also Bishops Waltham to Petersfield - nice but probably vulnerable to Beeching.

Would Dorchester to Axminster direct be difficult due to hills? Good idea though.

For Bishops Waltham, I was just thinking something similar to this the other day after being in the area. There's a gap through the Downs from the Petersfield area to the Meon Valley.

Maybe with a curve at Eastleigh to allow it to run through to Southampton as a through service from London without reversing at Eastleigh (limited stop before Petersfield, i.e. just Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, Haslemere) would have made it viable - the combined population of Swanmore (which it would presumably have gone through - I can imagine stations at East Meon, West Meon, Droxford and Swanmore), Bishops Waltham, Botley and Hedge End must be significant.

 

[Eric]

Bradford Interchange to Bradford Forster Square.

 

[A0wen]

Would Dorchester to Axminster direct be difficult due to hills? Good idea though.

Something like that was the original plan for the Southampton & Dorchester railway, which is the reason why trains had to reverse into Dorchester South until 1970.