Northern Unit Refurbishments

[Agent_Squash]

Northerns remaining obligation is for 18 x 2 car DMUs equivalent to 170s, either cascaded or new. 185s have high opperating costs too. While in theory 22 x 185s will go off lease by the end of 2023 the majority of them won't if the East Midlands franchise review gives Liverpool to Nottingham to TPE which would require 12 x 185s + spares. Once platform extensions are complete the Hull skip stop service could run with double units. That would require another 5 + spares.

Would the 185s be possible to modify for 110mph operation, and then return to services along the WCML to Barrow/Windermere? The engines are certainly good enough for 125.

 

[td97]

Would the 185s be possible to modify for 110mph operation, and then return to services along the WCML to Barrow/Windermere? The engines are certainly good enough for 125.

They do currently run on 2 out of 3 engines at any one time, so it sounds feasible for them to run at 110. They already run along the WCML when TPE don't have enough 350's to cover all the Scotland services, so that isn't an issue.
The issue is they are expensive, as they would likely have to be stored with Siemens at Ardwick, and have high running costs. Northern are only entitled to 18 2-car DMU's so they are more likely to end up with 170's from GA or WMT, or an add-on order of 195's.

 

[Agent_Squash]

They do currently run on 2 out of 3 engines at any one time, so it sounds feasible for them to run at 110. They already run along the WCML when TPE don't have enough 350's to cover all the Scotland services, so that isn't an issue.
The issue is they are expensive, as they would likely have to be stored with Siemens at Ardwick, and have high running costs. Northern are only entitled to 18 2-car DMU's so they are more likely to end up with 170's from GA or WMT, or an add-on order of 195's.

Considering the timing of the next election and the fact that both Barrow and Westmorland are both marginals, I don't imagine a Tory government having any issue saying no.

 

[Chester1]

Considering the timing of the next election and the fact that both Barrow and Westmorland are both marginals, I don't imagine a Tory government having any issue saying no.

What would be the point? Windermere services are largely self contained and a battery powered EMU trial will start in 2021. Barrow - Manchester services could only exceed 100mph between Lancaster and Preston. 195s are the obvious solution and they were ordered for the line. The current Northern 185s are likely to be transferred back to TPE in May despite Northern's DMU shortage. Presumably it will be 170s and 158s until the 195s are introduced.

 

[Agent_Squash]

What would be the point? Windermere services are largely self contained and a battery powered EMU trial will start in 2021. Barrow - Manchester services could only exceed 100mph between Lancaster and Preston. 195s are the obvious solution and they were ordered for the line. The current Northern 185s are likely to be transferred back to TPE in May despite Northern's DMU shortage. Presumably it will be 170s and 158s until the 195s are introduced.

It would go some way to justifying an upgrade of Manchester-Preston to 110mph (with the 185s and 397s both operating at 110mph in this scenario) and you'd be able to deliver a faster journey for both routes overall. You'd then be able to use the 195s across other parts of the network, while the 185s would still be able to stay at Ardwick.

 

[IanXC]

2 Try the York to Blackpool service which unless something has changed will be served under Connect by refurbished 158.s which i.m not unhappy with but i can see a bigger argument for using the new trains on that route that on a number of places they are going but I guess its the sheer number of units needed to fill the diagrams that's gone against that and I suppose the pushing back of the electrification programme has made them sort of just put it on hold [ ie if it is getting done 158.s then electrics if its definitely not and they'd known that then Bi Modes would be the option ]

Ahem:

Blackpool North will receive 4 trains per hour for most of the day (as now), including:

• 1 Northern Connect service per hour to/from Preston, Leeds and York, to be operated by new diesel trains

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Ahem:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html

Well according to Northern staff locally that's no longer the case and hasn't been for a couple of years

 

[Starmill]

I would say that an increase in the top speed of a 185, based on current engines, could have a very significant impact on their fuel efficiency. Considering their running costs as it is, I wonder how viable this could be.

Also consider, how many diesel trains are there in the world that travel at more than 100mph in service? The IC4 in Denmark and the private 'BrighLine' operation in Florida are the only examples I'm aware of outside of the UK. It seems to be very rare - and it's not really an efficient use of resources, and it will create more air pollution.

 

[BigCj34]

I would say that an increase in the top speed of a 185, based on current engines, could have a very significant impact on their fuel efficiency. Considering their running costs as it is, I wonder how viable this could be.

Also consider, how many trains are there in the world that travel at more than 100mph in service? The IC4 in Denmark and the private 'BrighLine' operation in Florida are the only examples I'm aware of outside of the UK. It seems to be very rare - and it's not really an efficient use of resources, and it will create more air pollution.

Presumably you mean diesel trains going over 100mph? There are a few of those here such as Voyagers and HSTs.

 

[Starmill]

Presumably you mean diesel trains going over 100mph? There are a few of those here such as Voyagers and HSTs.

Exactly, so has almost all of the rest of the world got it wrong, or has the UK?

 

[sd0733]

Can't find it mentioned anywhere but 150223 is currently sat in lime street very clean and shiny in new northern livery. Had a look through the windows and it has the new seat covers too.

 

[Halish Railway]

I think we can say that Northern will not use 185’s as they are expensive and Northern are on a tight budget - They don’t need more types of trains. Not saying that they are bad trains.

Anyway this is a refurbishment thread. Can we go on the hunt for the refurbished 156?

 

[johnmoly]

Can't find it mentioned anywhere but 150223 is currently sat in lime street very clean and shiny in new northern livery. Had a look through the windows and it has the new seat covers too.

That is the train I got yesterday from Edge Hill to Hunts Cross, very smart inside but it didn't smell of refurbishment.

Also there was a class 323 in Allerton Depot this morning, in Northern Livery.

 

[59CosG95]

That is the train I got yesterday from Edge Hill to Hunts Cross, very smart inside but it didn't smell of refurbishment.

Also there was a class 323 in Allerton Depot this morning, in Northern Livery.

Did that one look refurbished? Or was it still in its previous livery?

 

[50032]

Did that one look refurbished? Or was it still in its previous livery?

Un-refurbished.

 

[59CosG95]

Un-refurbished.

Ahh, thought so.

 

[brel york]

150 102 ready to leave works tomorrow, 150 116 coming to have prm Work only , it’s had corrosion work done in the last couple of years

 

[jonesy3001]

150 102 ready to leave works tomorrow, 150 116 coming to have prm Work only , it’s had corrosion work done in the last couple of years

Nice will have to fly back to get 150116 in the new northern livery since i have pics of her in both LM and old northern colours,
my flickr link is below.

 

[Domh245]

Nice will have to fly back to get 150116 in the new northern livery since i have pics of her in both LM and old northern colours,
my flickr link is below.

If it's only getting PRM work, it'll be going back in whatever livery it went in. There are 2 distinct streams of work going on at the moment, the PRM works to make the trains compliant for 2020, and the refurbishment works which includes repainting and new seats. It is (perhaps unsurprisingly) a bit of a mess.

 

[jonesy3001]

If it's only getting PRM work, it'll be going back in whatever livery it went in. There are 2 distinct streams of work going on at the moment, the PRM works to make the trains compliant for 2020, and the refurbishment works which includes repainting and new seats. It is (perhaps unsurprisingly) a bit of a mess.

Surprised they don`t paint them while the PRM work is getting done, instead of doing it separately, unless its one of the 150/1s that`s going 3 car.

 

[Domh245]

Surprised they don`t paint them while the PRM work is getting done, instead of doing it separately, unless its one of the 150/1s that`s going 3 car.

As I understand it, if they were to repaint them at the same time as doing the PRM work, it'd take longer to get all of the trains made PRM compliant and they would have non-compliant still in use when the deadline comes around.

 

[jonesy3001]

As I understand it, if they were to repaint them at the same time as doing the PRM work, it'd take longer to get all of the trains made PRM compliant and they would have non-compliant still in use when the deadline comes around.

Oh yeah, they not like buses are they.

 

[brel york]

As I understand it, if they were to repaint them at the same time as doing the PRM work, it'd take longer to get all of the trains made PRM compliant and they would have non-compliant still in use when the deadline comes around.

Wabtec are doing corrosion and prm , if it’s been in for corrosion ( 20 ) but not prm (as they weren’t ready to proceed ) then there coming back for prm only , no paint , if there coming for corrosion and prm then wabtec have been doing an exterior repaint

 

[simon7929]

Was there a 150 due yesterday from FGW?

 

[PHILIPE]

Was there a 150 due yesterday from FGW?

There was but move cancelled, Understand 150121 staying behind for a couple of weeks.

 

[johnmoly]

Did that one look refurbished? Or was it still in its previous livery?

Definitely refurbished inside, didn't particularly notice the livery was new or not.

 

[175001]

Internal shots showing 158845 getting work done at Crewe. New seats are good to go in, getting LED lights and is repainted in the base Northern colours so far.

 

[Ben Anslow]

Internal shots showing 158845 getting work done at Crewe. New seats are good to go in, getting LED lights and is repainted in the base Northern colours so far.

Where can we find these

 

[Bungle965]

Where can we find these

As they are internal shots I doubt they are in the public domain.
Sam

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Internal shots showing 158845 getting work done at Crewe. New seats are good to go in, getting LED lights and is repainted in the base Northern colours so far.

Tease...