Our total reliance on a vaccine and putting life on hold until it's rolled out

[DB]

Can you really get away with that in Britain? In Germany the police would be called and they would remove you from the train.

You only need to say that you are exempt, and as no proof is required they can't prove otherwise.

 

[JonathanP]

Ah, I see, that explains it. In Germany you have to have a certificate from your doctor.

 

[bramling]

Can you really get away with that in Britain? In Germany the police would be called and they would remove you from the train(and I guess subsequently levy a fine).

Put it this way, we’ve had the mask thing on trains for 6 months now, and I haven’t worn one at all. I have only once been spoken to by anyone in a position of enforcement, to which I replied with “I am exempt”, which was essentially the end of the matter. In fact by way of my professional position I was legally exempt at that encounter as it happened.

I have had a small handful of vigilante experiences however, plus countless dirty looks.

 

[scrapy]

Seems there is only enough Pfizer vaccine until the end of Jan, after that there will be no more until March.

Yes I've heard the same. Also heard that the Oxford vaccine is now approved for use but isn't being announced yet for political reasons. Before today's rushed announcement Boris was expecting to announce another national lockdown on 28/29th December with the virus approval being a positive for people to accept it. I'd still expect the announcement to be around the 28th.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Yes I've heard the same. Also heard that the Oxford vaccine is now approved for use but isn't being announced yet for political reasons. Before today's rushed announcement Boris was expecting to announce another national lockdown on 28/29th December with the virus approval being a positive for people to accept it. I'd still expect the announcement to be around the 28th.

Knowing what Boris Johnson is like, he'll probably announce the Oxford vaccine on Christmas Day dressed as Father Christmas as a pathetic stunt.

 

[21C101]

Can you really get away with that in Britain? In Germany the police would be called and they would remove you from the train(and I guess subsequently levy a fine).

There have been occasions when our police have intervened but normally if you state you are exempt that is enough.

Personally while I think the evidence of thrir effectiveness is too poor to justify compulsion, in the overall scheme of things it is not the end of the world and not worth going to the barricades for.

And anyone who uses staff travel and dosen't wear one, without good reason, is an idiot who deserves all they get.

Compulsory vaccination is a different matter but they have enough logisticial difficulties vaccinating those who want it to try compulsion any time soon.

 

[greyman42]

And anyone who uses staff travel and dosen't wear one, without good reason, is an idiot who deserves all they get.

What would you call a good reason?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have just re read the first 40 odd posts in the thread.

Despite concerns/sceptisim vaccines have appeared.

But we now have a mutation that spreads more easily. Allegedly no more dangerous and still can be defeated by the vaccine.

My view back in October 2020 was that things were always going to get worse during the Winter or rather late Autumn-Spring. Bit worried that the long-nights / cold-days have bitten so hard already though. I also took the view that 2021 would be easier than 2020 regardless of a vaccine. The mutation has invalidated that but in the end we will still have less dramatic effects. Question is was it worth hiding everyone from the inevitable ?. Well easy answer is only if a vaccine kicks in to curtail the agony of lockdowns. Other answer was to stop the NHS from collapsing.

My family Christmas was canceled last week. I had already posted most of the presents (for the young ones) in case we could not go (Croydon in S London to Cardiff). That is despite the vaccines appearing on the horizon. Or perhaps because of the imminent arrival of a vaccine in our family - no point taking risks now that a vaccine is just around the corner.

Now we have another lockdown - almost. Tier-4 has been invented. Christmas relaxation is for 25th only.

We are even more reliant on a vaccine but at least a vaccine now seems to be available.

 

[Richard Scott]

Can you really get away with that in Britain? In Germany the police would be called and they would remove you from the train(and I guess subsequently levy a fine).

Really, never saw that happen once when I was there?

We are even more reliant on a vaccine but at least a vaccine now seems to be available.

We're reliant on it because that's what politicians have decided. Biologically we'd deal with it. Humans have survived for many years because of that.

 

[21C101]

What would you call a good reason?

The official reasons which permit exemption

But we now have a mutation that spreads more easily. Allegedly no more dangerous and still can be defeated by the vaccine.

I think whether the mutant version that serms to have fermented and spread from the Isle of Shppey can be defeated by the vaccine remains to be seen.

Any official word at this early stage can only be speculation, albeit speculation from those who have studied viruses a lot.

It may of course just be propaganda to avoid panic with them not having the faintest idea yet how the vaccine will work with the Mutant.

 

[Richard Scott]

The official reasons which permit exemption


I think whether the mutant version that serms to have fermented and stread frpm Isle of Shppey can be defeated by the vaccine remains to be seen.

Any official word at this early stage can only be speculation, albeit speculation from those who have studied viruses a lot.

It may of course just be propaganda to avoid panic with them not having the faintest idea yet how the vaccine will work with the Mutant.

Viruses mutate all the time, this is just one of 12700 for this virus. Total scaremongering, that's all.

 

[Yew]

Viruses mutate all the time, this is just one of 12700 for this virus. Total scaremongering, that's all.

Interesting that this mutation with a higher R number was found going into the autumn, when respiratory viruses naturally spread more due to people moving inside.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Really, never saw that happen once when I was there?


We're reliant on it because that's what politicians have decided. Biologically we'd deal with it. Humans have survived for many years because of that.

Biologically Covid-19 would not result in extinction of the human race - by the look of it. But would the number of deaths be palatable. Less palatable would be if the NHS got overrun. But boy oh boy the mitigation measures have not been cheap !.

Interesting that this mutation with a higher R number was found going into the autumn, when respiratory viruses naturally spread more due to people moving inside.

Yes. My long term concern was getting through this winter because all sorts of infections have a better time of it when we are close together in un-ventilated areas. I was a bit surprised how early Covid-19 got going on its second wave. The 2nd lockdown slowed that down but, whatever has caused it, the curve on the graph makes the results of the 2nd lockdown look like a blip on the rising trend. I was also pleasantly surprised that we have vaccines available so soon. But not quite soon enough !.

 

[CentralTrainer]

You only need to say that you are exempt, and as no proof is required they can't prove otherwise.

A couple of times I have been on services and heard people nearby whining to a conductor that “I’m exempt so don’t have to wear a mask” only to turn to their friends and laugh that they don’t actually have anything that would count as an exemption once the conductor is out of earshot.

In that exact situation I’ve waited for them to move towards the doors to get off at their stop and fake cough in their direction from a distance (normally half to 3 quarters of a carriage length) whilst wearing a mask after loudly proclaiming that I’ve not been feeling well recently.

The British Olympic Committee could find a nice competitive 100m Sprint Relay Team with the speed they clear off through the doors.

 

[farleigh]

A couple of times I have been on services and heard people nearby whining to a conductor that “I’m exempt so don’t have to wear a mask” only to turn to their friends and laugh that they don’t actually have anything that would count as an exemption once the conductor is out of earshot.

In that exact situation I’ve waited for them to move towards the doors to get off at their stop and fake cough in their direction after loudly proclaiming that I’ve not been feeling well recently.

The British Olympic Committee could find a nice competitive 100m Sprint Relay Team with the speed they clear off through the doors.

Did you make this up or is it true?

 

[MattA7]

Sounds like a good way to get prosecuted if caught. I think it was made a specific offense to intentionally cough on people back when the pandemic started as people were going around doing stuff like that.

 

[The Ham]

Sounds like a good way to get prosecuted if caught. I think it was made a specific offense to intentionally cough on people back when the pandemic started as people were going around doing stuff like that.

I would agree that it's risky, but it also depends on how close you are when you cough, if you fake cough when a little way off (so not on them) and then move towards them complaining of being unwell then it's probably less clear cut.

Of course I'd still advise against it.

 

[adc82140]

I'm as anti restriction as anyone here. But there's a lot of nonsense being posted. All vaccine schedules are currently based on just having the Pfizer one. Once the Oxford one has been accepted, that all changes.

Boris Johnson is a weak PM. He wants everyone to like him. So he's basing his policies on what he reads on Twitter and mumsnet. Politically he's a libertarian. Anti restriction. But if he follows that path the twitterati will gang up against him. All talk of permanent restrictions is nonsense. As soon as the tide of public opinion and the press turns (not to mention the furlough money running out) the restrictions will be gone.

 

[The Ham]

I'm as anti restriction as anyone here. But there's a lot of nonsense being posted. All vaccine schedules are currently based on just having the Pfizer one. Once the Oxford one has been accepted, that all changes

Indeed, the flu vaccine is given to 60/100 people in 6 months, however if we exclude those under 18 then that's 60/75, which is 80% of the population.

Therefore even at the same speed as the flu vaccine we can do 80% with 2 doses within a year.

However few actually get their flu vaccine in September or March, and so we should be able to better that. That's before you look at large vaccination venues and the like.

 

[trebor79]

Indeed, the flu vaccine is given to 60/100 people in 6 months, however if we exclude those under 18 then that's 60/75, which is 80% of the population.

Therefore even at the same speed as the flu vaccine we can do 80% with 2 doses within a year.

However few actually get their flu vaccine in September or March, and so we should be able to better that. That's before you look at large vaccination venues and the like.

I was quite pleased to see a photograph in the press of someone being vaccinated at a drive-through site over the weekend. "It really is happening" was my thought upon seeing it.
Fingers crossed this new variant turns out to be the mother of storms in a teacup and doesn't materially reduce the vaccine efficacy.

 

[Domh245]

Indeed, the flu vaccine is given to 60/100 people in 6 months, however if we exclude those under 18 then that's 60/75, which is 80% of the population.

Do you have a source for that by any chance? I'd love to believe that the UK manages to give 60% of the population the flu vaccine but I'm struggling to. For example they talk about 25million being offered it for free on the NHS which is only 45% of the population assuming that everyone offered it takes it. I struggle to imagine that a further 15% (if not more) would voluntarily seek it out and pay for it

 

[LAX54]

So the new panic that is sweeping outwards from the UK, and France blocking ALL traffic, how do we know, that as the new strain 'started' in Kent, it was not brought over from France? Their cases have been rising fast too over the past few months ! and the 'block' will annoy the French as much as us too !

 

[DB]

So the new panic that is sweeping outwards from the UK, and France blocking ALL traffic, how do we know, that as the new strain 'started' in Kent, it was not brought over from France? Their cases have been rising fast too over the past few months ! and the 'block' will annoy the French as much as us too !

Even if it started here, given that it's been around for a few months already the chances of it not having spread to France - given that Kent is the part of the UK with probably the most direct contact with France - has to be pretty low.

 

[hwl]

Even if it started here, given that it's been around for a few months already the chances of it not having spread to France - given that Kent is the part of the UK with probably the most direct contact with France - has to be pretty low.

The Germans have't found it yet, but they reckon that is because they can't do enough of the testing needed so are assuming it is in circulation in Germany.
Australia have 2 UK arrivals in quarantine with it.

Given the UK does almost half the virus genomic testing globally, the chances of it being found here and far sooner too are much higher than elsewhere.

So the new panic that is sweeping outwards from the UK, and France blocking ALL traffic, how do we know, that as the new strain 'started' in Kent, it was not brought over from France? Their cases have been rising fast too over the past few months ! and the 'block' will annoy the French as much as us too !

The expert thinking is that the number of mutations (17) in single step suggests it developed in a immunosuppressed hospital patient over several weeks.
The earliest samples with this mutation were one from the Isle of Sheppey and one the next day in London.

 

[DB]

Given the UK does almost half the virus genomic testing globally, the chances of it being found here and far sooner too are much higher than elsewhere.

Indeed. And if our useless PM hadn't made such a thing of it we probably wouldn't be seeing the additional problems which will be caused by borders being closed.

 

[MikeWM]

Gaslighting?


MARK

Indeed. And we got some more of this over the weekend - the long-awaited prospect of a little bit of normality away from the abuse, snatched away at the last moment. Another classic abuser tactic.

 

[hwl]

Indeed, the flu vaccine is given to 60/100 people in 6 months, however if we exclude those under 18 then that's 60/75, which is 80% of the population.

Therefore even at the same speed as the flu vaccine we can do 80% with 2 doses within a year.

However few actually get their flu vaccine in September or March, and so we should be able to better that. That's before you look at large vaccination venues and the like.

The government aim is 2 million doses / week with the Oxford /AZ vaccine so around 12 months for all adults

 

[LAX54]

Indeed. And if our useless PM hadn't made such a thing of it we probably wouldn't be seeing the additional problems which will be caused by borders being closed.

EVERY Virus changes, but we get used to it as we go along, this is just normal 'mutation'.....is it the word that scares people? do some think we will turn into zombies ?
Of that 35,000 how many are 'ill', and how many are really sick ?
As of today there have been 2 million postives in the UK, (inc the 35k) Worldwide 77 million ! (France 2.5 million positives)

 

[21C101]

So the new panic that is sweeping outwards from the UK, and France blocking ALL traffic, how do we know, that as the new strain 'started' in Kent, it was not brought over from France? Their cases have been rising fast too over the past few months ! and the 'block' will annoy the French as much as us too !

There is suspicion that the French freight ban (which they seem to be rapidly climbing down on) is more to do with the Brexit negotiations than Covid.

 

[Richard Scott]

There is suspicion that the French freight ban (which they seem to be rapidly climbing down on) is more to do with the Brexit negotiations than Covid.

Probably but Boris will be too arrogant to notice. Too busy counting fish.