Class 345 progress

[hwl]

Slightly off topic perhaps unless it’s relevant to 345s but new Balise beacons have appeared on the west side of Liverpool Street since work started on lengthening the platforms on platform 17 and 18. Anybody know what their purpose is? We already have CSDE beacons on all the platforms. They are identical to the square yellow ones you see littered around stratford for ATO. As usual NR have said nothing... drivers are questioning and nobody seems to know..

The recommended current (post 2016?) method for new fleet ASDO CSDE etc is to use the industry standard square ETCS balises for positioning rather than the older H-S tracklink3 or other proprietary ones.

Hence I'd go for use with 720s on WAML rather than Crossrail.

 

[iphone76]

Slightly off topic perhaps unless it’s relevant to 345s but new Balise beacons have appeared on the west side of Liverpool Street since work started on lengthening the platforms on platform 17 and 18. Anybody know what their purpose is? We already have CSDE beacons on all the platforms. They are identical to the square yellow ones you see littered around stratford for ATO. As usual NR have said nothing... drivers are questioning and nobody seems to know..

The SON (Supplement to the Weekly Operating Notice) for week 38 says they are correct side door enable balises and are being installed between Liverpool Street and Shenfield between now and mid September.

 

[20atthemagnet]

The SON (Supplement to the Weekly Operating Notice) for week 38 says they are correct side door enable balises and are being installed between Liverpool Street and Shenfield between now and mid September.

Thanks. As you’ve just said that found it on the last page of my WON. Interesting that 345s cant use the long long bar type ASDO/CSDE balises that 720/710 use. They have been installed an in use on the west side of LST some time now.

 

[iphone76]

Thanks. As you’ve just said that found it on the last page of my WON. Interesting that 345s cant use the long long bar type ASDO/CSDE balises that 720/710 use. They have been installed an in use on the west side of LST some time now.

Very strange! On the East route, so far I've only seen those new ones at Liverpool Street. We are currently doing the full length unit course, so it will be interesting when they start in May.

 

[JonathanH]

345047 appears to be the first conversion back to 9-car - seen today on the railcam at Slough working 5G74 0823 Old Oak Depot to Reading.

 

[matt_world2004]

Having both the east and west as nine car may allow more rolling stock flexibility when the core eventually opens. Even if the core is not immediately connected up with the two branches.

 

[itfcfan]

With previous software updates they have learnt the hard way to have a fall back option, in the H&H shuttle case 7car or previous software with 9car in the short term but in the Heathrow case it would have to be the previous version of the software on 9 car units. Hence until they are sure there are no new problems they will probably keep a good number of the 9 car units with the previous software available.

Does anyone know if the failure rate of the 9-car 345s has improved since the software update(s) in November/December? Today I see no 7 car services on the western side (services to Hayes & Harlington, Heathrow and Paddington are all running with 9 cars). It'll be very good news when it's confirmed these services are running without significant issues and the 345 software based on ECTS is working reliably!

 

[kevin_roche]

Does anyone know if the failure rate of the 9-car 345s has improved since the software update(s) in November/December? Today I see no 7 car services on the western side (services to Hayes & Harlington, Heathrow and Paddington are all running with 9 cars). It'll be very good news when it's confirmed these services are running without significant issues and the 345 software based on ECTS is working reliably!

I have not heard anything.

There was a note in the Crossrail response to the Jacobs report for period 6: "Bombardier release of TCMS (7.6.2) is scheduled for January 2021"

So it may have happened or about to happen.

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone know if the failure rate of the 9-car 345s has improved since the software update(s) in November/December? Today I see no 7 car services on the western side (services to Hayes & Harlington, Heathrow and Paddington are all running with 9 cars). It'll be very good news when it's confirmed these services are running without significant issues and the 345 software based on ECTS is working reliably!

There are still routinely units picking up delays and being swapped off Heathrow diagrams. There are still occasional failures on Reading services - eg 345028 on 9P30 0835 Reading to London Paddington on Wednesday morning which unit went empty to Old Oak Depot from Reading as 5P30.

Just picking up a few off RTT from yesterday:
9P29 0852 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington was taken out of service at Southall and went to Old Oak Depot.
9P89 1622 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed by 16 minutes at Heathrow Airport Junction and appears to have been swapped with a Reading working at Paddington
9P05 1822 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed by 35 minutes between Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Central and went to Old Oak Depot on arrival at Paddington
9P25 2052 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed by 8 minutes at Heathrow Airport Junction

It does seem that they sometimes have good days with no failures and other days which aren't so good - today looks generally better. There was only that one day with 7-cars on both Hayes shuttles. Reading has been solid 9-car since 22 December and the conversion of 345047 would appear to be a good sign.

The 7-car 345s are still getting runs out on the various empty cycles to Reading / Maidenhead - eg 345052 on the 5G56-5G59 cycle today, 345051 on the same working yesterday.

 

[Joliver]

9P05 1822 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington appears to have been delayed by 35 minutes between Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Central and went to Old Oak Depot on arrival at Paddington

I was driving this unit. Nothing wrong with it, I was stuck behind a failed HEX service in CTA.

 

[itfcfan]

I was driving this unit. Nothing wrong with it, I was stuck behind a failed HEX service in CTA.

That's good to hear! Do the 345s seem more reliable since the last software change?

 

[JonathanH]

I was driving this unit. Nothing wrong with it, I was stuck behind a failed HEX service in CTA.

Ah, yes, I see that now - sorry - the bit which confused me was that 1Y74 1812 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington is shown departing CTA on time and only picked up its delay between there and Heathrow Tunnel Junction (so I didn't notice on the CTA line up) and your train is then shown delayed into CTA (and going to the depot on arrival at Paddington).

41 minutes delay on 1Y74 must be one of the longest duration 387 failures since their introduction to airport workings.

 

[Siemens Staines]

9R28 0813 Paddington - Reading shown as a 7-car on tiger today

 

[JN114]

It’s all 9 cars out on west side according to TRUST:-

9T27 0802 Paddington to Heathrow T5 - 345030 (9)
9R28 0813 Paddington to Reading - 345047 (9)
9T29 0818 Paddington to Hayes - 345068 (9)
9T31 0832 Paddington to Heathrow T5 - 345061 (9)
9R32 0843 Paddington to Reading - 345043 (9)
9T33 0848 Paddington to Hayes - 345028 (9)
9T35 0902 Paddington to Heathrow T5 - 345004 (9)
9R36 0913 Paddington to Reading - 345055 (9)
9R40 0943 Paddington to Reading - 345062 (9)
9R44 1013 Paddington to Reading - 345035 (9)

 

[SeaKing]

9R28 0813 Paddington - Reading shown as a 7-car on tiger today

Looks like Tiger hasn't been told 345047 is back to 9 Car.

 

[Joliver]

That's good to hear! Do the 345s seem more reliable since the last software change?

They do yes. For me personally, I've only had one ETCS fault since the update.

Ah, yes, I see that now - sorry - the bit which confused me was that 1Y74 1812 Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington is shown departing CTA on time and only picked up its delay between there and Heathrow Tunnel Junction (so I didn't notice on the CTA line up) and your train is then shown delayed into CTA (and going to the depot on arrival at Paddington).

41 minutes delay on 1Y74 must be one of the longest duration 387 failures since their introduction to airport workings.

You're correct about it departing on time, looked like it failed on leaving CTA.

HEX seem to be having a few teething problems on the 387's. Just as the 345's did.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Looks like Tiger hasn't been told 345047 is back to 9 Car.

That would account for it - a missing database update rather than missing coaches

 

[kevin_roche]

Mark Wild's latest monthly letter to the London assembly transport Committee is available now to view on the TfL website. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-18-january-2020.pdf

Notable items are:

On Page 2

The blockade followed a period of Systems Integration Dynamic Testing (SIDT) and stations Systems Integration, which is making good progress. While it is still early, performance of SIDT is looking positive and as expected it is uncovering issues to be rectified. There has been a lot of learning within the Route Control Centre and this has improved the ability to manage the service. SIDT restarted on 13 January 2021 and will benefit from a further version of signaling and train control software, which should see improvement in the issues impacting SIDT.

On Page 3

The Class 345 nine car passenger trains (Full length Units) were re-introduced to the Reading Route on 22 December replacing the Class 345 seven car trains (Reduced Length Units). This is a significant step forward, using the latest software to improve the reliability of the trains and increasing mileage.

 

[Horizon22]

Mark Wild's latest monthly letter to the London assembly transport Committee is available now to view on the TfL website. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-18-january-2020.pdf

Notable items are:

On Page 2


On Page 3

They're not all 9-cars, I saw several 7 cars running around yesterday to Reading.
ETCS failures certainly seem to have reduced though, although they still pop up more than what I'd expect to be TfL's benchmark.

 

[rd749249]

Regarding SIDT, the departures boards at ABW are in sync with the SIDT diagrams, showing Paddington departures every 5 minutes with 8 trains running every 76 minutes from ABW. All units running under 9Y** from ABW, 9U** from PAD with 3Y/3U in the turnbacks.

The latest date for trial running is still end of March. This hasn’t changed for a while now, though obviously this is subject to change.

 

[kevin_roche]

Regarding SIDT, the departures boards at ABW are in sync with the SIDT diagrams, showing Paddington departures every 5 minutes with 8 trains running every 76 minutes from ABW. All units running under 9Y** from ABW, 9U** from PAD with 3Y/3U in the turnbacks.

The latest date for trial running is still end of March. This hasn’t changed for a while now, though obviously this is subject to change.

At Abbey Wood, do the trains depart alternately from each platform or do they turn back just beyond the station?

 

[Horizon22]

At Abbey Wood, do the trains depart alternately from each platform or do they turn back just beyond the station?

Abbey Wood is a regular terminus, but I believe there is one turnback and connection to the classic North Kent lines. Not sure how much that would need to be used though.

 

[kevin_roche]

Abbey Wood is a regular terminus, but I believe there is one turnback and connection to the classic North Kent lines. Not sure how much that would need to be used though.

Thank you. I just realised I can answer my own question using a search on real time trains: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/ABX/2021-01-21/1200

This confirms that at the moment trains are arriving at alternate platforms.

 

[iphone76]

Thank you. I just realised I can answer my own question using a search on real time trains: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/ABX/2021-01-21/1200

This confirms that at the moment trains are arriving at alternate platforms.

And I believe we will be stepping back as the 6 minute(?) turnaround time is too short to change ends, etc.

Don't quote me but the last time we did a CBTC course they mentioned that the connection isn't electrified so all being well you shouldn't see a 345 on the country side of the station.

 

[kevin_roche]

And I believe we will be stepping back as the 6 minute(?) turnaround time is too short to change ends, etc.

Don't quote me but the last time we did a CBTC course they mentioned that the connection isn't electrified so all being well you shouldn't see a 345 on the country side of the station.

I read somewhere that there is a turnback but I don't know if it is electrified. I also read the connection to the North Kent line is only suitable for engineering trains.

 

[paulravuslante]

The connection to the North Kent lines is electrified to a point. You can see the catenary on Alsike Road in Google Maps (pic attached). When I did testing a few years ago a 345 was stabled there.

 

[PJSADI]

And I believe we will be stepping back as the 6 minute(?) turnaround time is too short to change ends, etc.

Don't quote me but the last time we did a CBTC course they mentioned that the connection isn't electrified so all being well you shouldn't see a 345 on the country side of the station.

The turnaround is currently set at 8 minutes, or was pre Christmas, so enough time to change ends, though very tight if a change of driver, especially with the need to sanitise the cab and controls prior to setting up.
the turnback, or bolthole as it’s known, is electrified far enough to capture both pantographs, but ends shortly afterwards.

And to confirm Kevin’s question, yes the trains arrive and depart from alternate platforms at Abbeywood.

 

[Andrew S]

The siding/North Kent line connection beyond the platform at Abbey Wood is really an extension of the "westbound" platform 3, and doesn't have a connection to the "eastbound" platform 4 line, so is not usable for reversing. It can be used to stable a train out of the way though I guess.

At the end of both platforms is a small secondary ticket hall/circulation area with an entrance/exit out to the street. All this would have to be demolished if services are ever run through onto the North Kent lines.

 

[Snow1964]

Heads Up : The Agenda and Papers for next weeks (29th January) Elizabeth Line committee should be uploaded sometime tonight in the TfL Board papers

Elizabeth line committee

Agendas and papers from the Elizabeth line committee

tfl.gov.uk

Might have some updates on both trains and infrastructure

 

[JonathanH]

They're not all 9-cars, I saw several 7 cars running around yesterday to Reading.

345047 still seems to be reporting on Tiger as a 7-car. Indeed, it would appear that this unit (or another conversion) is working on Heathrow services http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/rendercissod.asp?file=302008.xml&width=full&graphic=1 since we know that 7-car units can't go there.



While the Slough webcam is no longer available so I can't confirm the position since Monday, I contend that no 7-car operated in passenger service to Reading between 22 December and this Monday. All of the other services are shown as 9-cars. It was not unknown for the empty workings to be 7-car units.

345047 appears to have been out on Reading services yesterday working 5P06 0539 Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs to Maidenhead / 9P06 0545 Maidenhead to London Paddington / 9R16 0643 London Paddington to Reading / 9P24 0752 Reading to London Paddington/ 9N34 0858 London Paddington to Maidenhead / 5N02 0946 Maidenhead to Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs / 5P90 1610 Maidenhead Carriage Sdgs to Maidenhead / 9P90 1615 Maidenhead to London Paddington / 9R00 1713 London Paddington to Reading / 9P08 1822 Reading to London Paddington / 5Y25 1928 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot. It would appear that those will have shown as 7-car on the information displays.