Soham station progress updates

[Ianno87]

But still £18m for one platform at a station presumably unstaffed is extraordinary. Assuming the trackside can be fenced, it's only when you finally come to do the platform (and the outer edge of that) that there needs to be any impact on rail operations.

AIUI it's being built as a two platform station, but with one platform left unused until doubling occurs (a la Kenilworth). So as well as the cost of the second platform and bridge, there'll need to be access across the railway to reach the second platform..

The railway has always had a fascination with having their "own" power supply at stations, in the middle of a town where everyone else just connects to the public supply. I recall a station approach in Somerset where three street lights were installed, and they put in their own substation. The local authority actually offered to extend their streetlighting at minimal cost, but this was deemed "not to standards".

Lighting on a station is safety-critical.

The fact is, if you look at electricity supply failures, that the bulk of them happen upstream of wherever they are going to plug their own transformer into. Whatever power supply is required other than lighting at an unstaffed halt?

Customer Information Screens and TVMs too.

. Is moving S&T cabling really that expensive?

If "moving" requires making it longer to get around obstacles, that will need new cable (potentially a long length) if the existing one doesn't have enough slack.

And that means a possession whilst you knock out the signalling to do it.

 

[Starmill]

Is the pair of ticket machines related to two entrances? Alternatively it might be related to needing to have one on each platform in the future.

Zero ticket machines would be perfectly fine because as I understand it a second member of staff is funded on all trains. Overwhelmingly they will have sufficient time to sell tickets to people boarding at Soham, plus local tickets can be bought by mobile phones. However, the industry has gone down the route generally of paying for ticket machines which aren't really very user friendly, and which now won't even get much use, as well as paying for revenue staff on all trains in many areas, so that they can enforce rules about buying before boarding.

Do Greater Anglia sell parking through their ticket machines?

Lighting on a station is safety-critical.

This is without doubt the case. But the really important question is whether or not the extra costs associated with station lighting supply are buying a meaningful reduction in the risk of lighting downtime during operational hours, noting that the risk isn't being reduced to zero. For example, we don't go the trouble and cost of installing an on-site backup generator for lighting for every single station in the country.

 

[alistairlees]

AIUI it's being built as a two platform station, but with one platform left unused until doubling occurs (a la Kenilworth). So as well as the cost of the second platform and bridge, there'll need to be access across the railway to reach the second platform.

It's being built as a one platform station. No second platform is being built. The footbridge is for an existing right of way apparently, though I'm not really sure which one. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.33434/0.32831

This provides a bit more info: https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/green-light-for-soham-station

 

[jopsuk]

It's being built as a one platform station. No second platform is being built. The footbridge is for an existing right of way apparently, though I'm not really sure which one. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.33434/0.32831

This provides a bit more info: https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/green-light-for-soham-station

it doesn't allow linking to locations, but the definitive rights of way map agrees that there's no ROW there

 

[30907]

it doesn't allow linking to locations, but the definitive rights of way map agrees that there's no ROW there

It says "connect to an existing ROW" though which is presumably the one along the lode which crosses the line on the level by the river bridge.
There is another footpath crossing just to the north which I am sure NR would be pleased to have stopped up.

 

[alistairlees]

It says "connect to an existing ROW" though which is presumably the one along the lode which crosses the line on the level by the river bridge.
There is another footpath crossing just to the north which I am sure NR would be pleased to have stopped up.

That's a good point. There is in fact a foot crossing (not sure if it is used by the public, though) just to the south (by the river; before the twin track merges into single track) that is perhaps what it is intended to close (assuming there is intention to close anything).

 

[Bald Rick]

And how much does design cost? I thought a large amount of that was done in the earlier phases (i.e. before the £18.6m)?

Design is typically 10%of a construction project like this, but can vary significantly. But the £28.6m includes all the work done to date - design, development, feasibility, etc.

What is actually the cost of the footbridge or the platform or the car park surfacing?

Well there’s footbridges and footbridges, but a bog standard stepped footbridge on a ‘clean’ site with nothing else to worry about will start at around £1.5m. Surface car parking - anywhere from £8k a space upwards.

 

[geoffk]

I've no connection with the area but assumed, when I saw this, that this cost would include double-tracking and two platforms! Kenilworth station, also with one platform and opened in May 2018, cost £13.8m but this includes a brick building with a "retail unit" (aka a shop) selling tickets, and a new footbridge with lift. Car parking is £3 a day and I assume Soham will also have a parking charge.

 

[pdeaves]

If "moving" requires making it longer to get around obstacles, that will need new cable (potentially a long length) if the existing one doesn't have enough slack.

And that means a possession whilst you knock out the signalling to do it.

Depending on the amount of 'move', that may trigger changes to the cable to make sure everything still works with a bigger volt drop, or redesigning the signalling system so that it still works.

Once the signalling works is physically complete (even if it's just disconnect then reconnect a cable), everything will need a very thorough test. Never skimp on the test.

 

[Taunton]

But the £28.6m includes all the work done to date - design, development, feasibility, etc.

Here we are - @Bald Rick comes along to give a professional opinion and the costs further increase from £18.6m to £28.6m .

 

[306024]

Here we are - @Bald Rick comes along to give a professional opinion and the costs further increase from £18.6m to £28.6m .

Now includes his consultancy fee

 

[Bald Rick]

Here we are - @Bald Rick comes along to give a professional opinion and the costs further increase from £18.6m to £28.6m .

Now includes his consultancy fee

Just applying the standard business model - say it is much more expensive, deliver it for less, claim a big saving

And definitely not a typo. No Sir.

 

[alistairlees]

Design is typically 10%of a construction project like this, but can vary significantly. But the £28.6m includes all the work done to date - design, development, feasibility, etc.



Well there’s footbridges and footbridges, but a bog standard stepped footbridge on a ‘clean’ site with nothing else to worry about will start at around £1.5m. Surface car parking - anywhere from £8k a space upwards.

Thanks. Let's assume that the bridge cost £2m - 33% more than your £1.5m estimate, because it seems to have extra piers (presumably what the lift towers will abut?). Let's also assume each car park space was £10k - 20% more than the figure you gave - so 55 of them would be £0.55m. That's £2.55m spent so far.

We've got £16.05m left to:
- provide a 100m platform
- provide an access road (upgrading existing rough road?)
- provide a turning circle
- add lighting towers / lighting to the platform, the car park, the turning circle and (I assume) the access road
- add CIS screen (or screens)
- add a couple of TVMs
- add a basic shelter on the platform
- add fencing on the platform, round the site
- put in power supply to the station site
- (probably) move some of the signal cabing
- tamp the track (is it being moved?)
- do the overall designs
- do any legals
- do any investigative works for wildlife / archaeology
- pay for some compensation to freight operators for disruption
- project manage

It's not clear if any land purchase is needed (or is included in ther cost, if it is).

Any takers? Any ideas of the cost here (I know one of them).

How come a basic footbridge costs £1.5m? What's it made of? If our £2m footbridge in this example weighed 3.33 tons*, then we could afford to make it entirely out of silver (spot price yesterday is 60p / gram).


*Yeah, I know it probably weighs more than 3.33 tons. And that there's cost to design, fabricate, transport and position it. As well as disruption costs.

 

[Bald Rick]

How come a basic footbridge costs £1.5m? What's it made of? If our £2m footbridge in this example weighed 3.33 tons*, then we could afford to make it entirely out of silver (spot price yesterday is 60p / gram).

When I rebuilt my house, the wiring, sockets, light fittings and consumer unit cost about £2k. The electrician’s bill was well over £10k.

 

[ABB125]

When I rebuilt my house, the wiring, sockets, light fittings and consumer unit cost about £2k. The electrician’s bill was well over £10k.

Did that bill include the indirect costs of rewiring, such as repairing plaster/patching up wallpaper etc? I'm guessing those indirect costs don't apply to stations, since it's all new build and electricity can (I would have thought) be done before "decoration" (a loose term when it comes to stations!).

Fascinating fact: for £2000 you could buy around 450 MK-branded double sockets at consumer prices...

 

[Bald Rick]

Fascinating fact: for £2000 you could buy around 450 MK-branded double sockets at consumer prices...

Well we have about 100 sockets or double sockets / comms points, and rather a lot of spotlights. And a lot of cable!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

When I rebuilt my house, the wiring, sockets, light fittings and consumer unit cost about £2k. The electrician’s bill was well over £10k.

I appreciate the implied point about professional fees etc. coming to a lot more than materials. But - based on typical house prices in areas where land is cheap, it would seem reasonable to assume that (excluding the cost of land) you could build at least 10 - and possibly as many as 20 - complete 2-storey houses for the cost you've just quoted of a basic footbridge. I'm not an engineer but I'm pretty sure even 10 houses would require a lot more materials, man-hours of labour AND professional input than building a basic no-frills footbridge would requires. So I'm genuinely puzzled about how a bridge could cost so much more.

 

[mr_jrt]

Basically, everything's built of gold and then painted to look like rusty iron and concrete to deter the thieves. Don't tell anyone!

 

[Bald Rick]

I appreciate the implied point about professional fees etc. coming to a lot more than materials. But - based on typical house prices in areas where land is cheap, it would seem reasonable to assume that (excluding the cost of land) you could build at least 10 - and possibly as many as 20 - complete 2-storey houses for the cost you've just quoted of a basic footbridge. I'm not an engineer but I'm pretty sure even 10 houses would require a lot more materials, man-hours of labour AND professional input than building a basic no-frills footbridge would requires. So I'm genuinely puzzled about how a bridge could cost so much more.

Yep, I understand the point. Although you’ll be lucky to build a typical two storey house (say 3 bed) for £150k, certainly in the south east.

 

[bspahh]

https://twitter.com/Chrishawkins23/status/1396865280161292289 has some photos of the Soham station construction

 

[Taunton]

What solid concrete construction compared to straightforward new platforms of a generation ago.

Are they building something explosion-proof in case another ammunition train goes up there?

And is it any wonder that the Williams-Schapps White paper says:

... a new focus on the escalations in cost, gold plating and over-specification that have occurred since privatisation.

 

[InOban]

I had assumed that the white blocks in the first two pictures were expanded polystyrene.

 

[Ianno87]

What solid concrete construction compared to straightforward new platforms of a generation ago.

Are they building something explosion-proof in case another ammunition train goes up there?

And is it any wonder that the Williams-Schapps White paper says:

"Whole life cost". Spend more money now and you save money in the long run by it not all falling to bits and needing to be replaced. Especially in Fenland conditions.

Lostock, a wooden construction of the late 80s being a case in point. I've had to step over the same puddle on the Down platform in rainshowers every day since the 1990s.

 

[Bald Rick]

What solid concrete construction compared to straightforward new platforms of a generation ago.

Are they building something explosion-proof in case another ammunition train goes up there?

And is it any wonder that the Williams-Schapps White paper says:

I had assumed that the white blocks in the first two pictures were expanded polystyrene.

They are indeed Polystryrene, which means you can build the platform much more quickly, and thus need fewer possessions on this very important freight route.

 

[ABB125]

On the first and second pictures, the drainage (I assume) channel in the middle has been lined with some sort of grey material - what is this, and why is it needed if plastic channelling (as can be seen in the second image) is being installed anyway?

 

[Tio Terry]

Worked in the railway industry for over 53 years. Whilst I can easily see the need for something to last a long time, I'm absolutely certain I could reduce the cost of building that single platform and still meet today's standards. This is what the Williams Shapps report is saying about gold plated projects. There has to be a better way.

 

[Taunton]

They are indeed Polystyrene, which means you can build the platform much more quickly, and thus need fewer possessions on this very important freight route.

OK, I'll take it from you that they are polystyrene, not concrete (which I work with most days). In which case the scale of plant manoeuvring it seems a substantial overkill.

 

[Bald Rick]

OK, I'll take it from you that they are polystyrene, not concrete (which I work with most days). In which case the scale of plant manoeuvring it seems a substantial overkill.

The plant is shifting what goes on top of the poly blocks, and they are concrete. Alsomit will be shifting the aggregates around, the poly blocks have to be laid on a decent sub base.

 

[CBlue]

Given the ground conditions in the fens it's probably best they over engineer it somewhat!

 

[muddythefish]

Is the line being doubled in conjunction with the station being built?