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Caledonian Sleeper

Bletchleyite

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Much cheaper to pay overtime than employ extra staff.

This is something that really needs to go in contracts, so the TOC is heavily financially penalised for being unable to run the service where this is because of a shortage of volunteers for overtime. Then it wouldn't be cheaper.

To be properly reliable, the railway, CS included, needs to be fully staffed, with overtime only used in truly exceptional situations, e.g. severe delays or unprecedented rather than usual sickness levels.
 
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JonathanH

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This is something that really needs to go in contracts, so the TOC is heavily financially penalised for being unable to run the service where this is because of a shortage of volunteers for overtime. Then it wouldn't be cheaper.
Wouldn't that result in a lot of staff sitting idle when sickness cover isn't required? Would you need to employ seasonal staff to cover sickness / holiday periods?
 

Bletchleyite

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Wouldn't that result in a lot of staff sitting idle when sickness cover isn't required? Would you need to employ seasonal staff to cover sickness / holiday periods?

Other businesses do. Difficult with the level of driver/guard training needed, but certainly possible for stewards.

Holiday planning is a matter for the business to deal with. If it affects your operation, you ensure you don't have too many staff on holiday at once, or you ensure that any rest day working for this purpose is planned well in advance and contractually agreed with no withdrawal permissible unless sick (and if someone does call in sick for this sort of situation, like when there's a famous football match on, you delve in and make sure they actually are sick and come down on them like a ton of bricks if you find that in fact they are not), or you modify your operation accordingly (e.g. drop the Aberdeen portion in summer, when they'd probably do well to have the whole half-train go to Fort William anyway as they'd easily fill it).

It's all good management, that's all. Relying on optional overtime for your basic operation is poor management.
 

Bill57p9

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Wouldn't that result in a lot of staff sitting idle when sickness cover isn't required? Would you need to employ seasonal staff to cover sickness / holiday periods?
Any organisation will have a certain level of absences due to various forms of leave: holiday, sickness, maternity, jury duty, reservists, ... Or maybe other duties such as training.
On an individual basis each is a somewhat exceptional event however across a workforce it is reasonable to assume that on any given day (or night in this case) one or more people will be unavailable. To assume 100% attendance is foolish.
My personal opinion is that workforce planning should offer sufficient relief to cover the baseline absence however for the reason you have stated, it is reasonable to employ overtime to cover peaks. I.e. rest day working should be the exception rather than the rule.

Of course CS don't have the 7 day operation issue that other TOCs do!

I do believe that the bottom line here, as has already been mentioned is that under the EMA, neither the TOCs nor the relevant Government seem to lose out from such cancellations - and in fact are probably saving money (see also the ScotRail dispute). With no apparent political pressure to resolve the situation either I am struggling to see an end in sight, though in the long run it's the railway that looses.
 
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paul1609

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True. But remember that the Aberdeen portion also serves other destinations. When I used to get the Sleeper regularly (going back a few years now) there were always at least a handful of other people boarding/alighting at Dundee. Inverkeithing and Kirkcaldy also seemed to have a decent number of patrons.
The northbound sleeper calls at Inverkeithing at 04.57. I've used it once, I was the only passenger alighting. The train stopped short and I had to jump off on to the platform ramp the steward apologised but said it was unusual to call there. I had to walk to Rosyth shipyard as the taxis weren't up yet. I'd suggest for all the Fyfe stations you are much better off getting the lowlander to Edinburgh and a connecting service.
 

Blindtraveler

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My first flat as an adult was in one of the blocks that you see on the right hand side of the train as you approach inverkeithing station. I used to use the the Highland sleeper to inverkeithing seated quite a bit as within 3 minutes of getting off the train I was in my front door and either straight back to bed or having a shower and hot coffee
 

najaB

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It's all good management, that's all. Relying on optional overtime for your basic operation is poor management.
Not necessarily. It's a matter of how much overtime you're depending on. Almost all employees appreciate being able to pick up an extra few hours here and there. What doesn't work well is when they're expected to work extra hours all the time. Especially if the enhanced pay rate isn't particularly high.

I've worked for a company that had compulsory overtime - I didn't stay long.
 

Bald Rick

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It's all good management, that's all. Relying on optional overtime for your basic operation is poor management.

I’ve worked shifts in various sectors - public, private, and public-private - and all have relied on optional overtime for the basic operation; particularly at peak holiday seasons (ie now).
 

Steve Harris

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I would guess that breaks employment law?
I doubt it.

The contract I signed 35 years ago had a clause stating you was expected to do a reasonable amout of overtime when asked.

Although not technically compulsory, those that didn't do any overtime when asked tended to be high up the list when redundancies happened.

I later found out off of a union rep that 'reasonable amount' equated to 1 hours overtime a week !
 

island

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I would guess that breaks employment law?
As long as minimum rest periods/maximum working hours are complied with, it is fine.

All of the job contracts I’ve signed since 2010 require me to work such extra hours as may from time be necessary to complete my assigned tasks and state that I will not be paid for same.
 

Bletchleyite

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As long as minimum rest periods/maximum working hours are complied with, it is fine.

All of the job contracts I’ve signed since 2010 require me to work such extra hours as may from time be necessary to complete my assigned tasks and state that I will not be paid for same.

This is pretty usual for professional salaried jobs rather than waged ones. What differentiates a good from a bad company is how often it's needed.
 

SteveM70

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This is pretty usual for professional salaried jobs rather than waged ones. What differentiates a good from a bad company is how often it's needed.

And whether it’s needed from all members of a team reasonably equally. And whether it’s a reflection of the employee’s apparent inability to complete what you might call a standard amount of work in the same time as their colleagues.

As others have said, my contract has the standard “whatever is reasonably necessary” clause, although my employer is excellent and when I do work daft hours (eg when a project goes live) I get days off in lieu which is fine with me

in previous jobs I’ve seen a horrible boss use it as a means of victimising one person from a team in an attempt to force them out. His not-very-cunning plan was exposed, we all gave evidence, and he was the one who left
 

Darandio

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There is one small clue on the website (if your really tech savvy) and that is the statement saying copyright 2015!!

The majority of 'live' websites will say copyright 2021.

I fear it's straying off topic but that is in no way a clue as to whether the business is functioning. Whilst many do say 2021 there are a huge amount that either have an out of date year*, a simple copyright footer with no year or no copyright footer at all!

*You are posting on one right now.
 

Merseysider

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Back on topic, I’m on the Fort William sleeper now down to London.

Their website states rooms available from 1920, so that is when I turned up, & lo and behold the room wasn’t available. More than ten minutes later we’re greeted by a rather gruff member of staff, literally barking instructions and questions, before we’re directed onboard.

Not a good first impression.

He then reappears in the Club/lounge carriage as I arrive to make a reservation - barking “mask on” at me the minute I step through the door. I tell him I’m exempt, and his response is “Are you? Hmmm.”

Obviously I’ll be feeding back to CS, but this is appalling.

Edit: Arriving at 2030 for my lounge car reservation, it was 15 minutes before anyone was able to take my order. It took 10 minutes for a simple bottle of gin to arrive, though the food followed soon after. I was ready to pay at 2105, and it was almost twenty minutes before a member of staff effectively told me and the group opposite [that due to no signal] we should go to our berths and they’ll bother us for payment later - quite why they couldn’t have mentioned this earlier I don’t know.

So my advice to anyone considering using the lounge car is just don’t bother.

Second edit: payment finally taken at 2147.

Slow doesn’t even begin to cover it!

Another edit: The toilet doesn’t flush, there’s no hot water in the shower, and the cold water coming out of the showerhead is at a trickle. Fantastic.

Edited again: 15 minutes later I’m in a new room with working water - so I’m very impressed that the staff sorted this out, but not impressed the issue arose in the first place...
 
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Deafdoggie

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I would guess that breaks employment law?
We're required to work upto an hour a day if required. It's compulsory but usually paid at time and a half. As it's been needed for every day for the past fortnight they've now said they'll pay it at double time as a further thank you to us. But certainly employers can tell you to work when they want, there's not a lot you can do to stop it, it's just nice we get an enhanced rate. But there's a world of difference in us needing to do an hour a day to finish the job & needing to work our days off to keep the job going! In fact, management don't really like people working their days off at all. Railways rely on it.
 

MrEd

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Back on topic, I’m on the Fort William sleeper now down to London.

Their website states rooms available from 1920, so that is when I turned up, & lo and behold the room wasn’t available. More than ten minutes later we’re greeted by a rather gruff member of staff, literally barking instructions and questions, before we’re directed onboard.

Not a good first impression.

He then reappears in the Club/lounge carriage as I arrive to make a reservation - barking “mask on” at me the minute I step through the door. I tell him I’m exempt, and his response is “Are you? Hmmm.”

Obviously I’ll be feeding back to CS, but this is appalling.

Edit: Arriving at 2030 for my lounge car reservation, it was 15 minutes before anyone was able to take my order. It took 10 minutes for a simple bottle of gin to arrive, though the food followed soon after. I was ready to pay at 2105, and it was almost twenty minutes before a member of staff effectively told me and the group opposite to go to our berths and they’ll bother us for payment later - quite why they couldn’t have mentioned this earlier I don’t know.

So my advice to anyone considering using the lounge car is just don’t bother.
It’s very unusual for any of the crew on the Fort William route to behave like that - they’re normally a very helpful and laid-back bunch. I think that staff member needs to be retrained as his attitude is bang out of order - to be challenging someone for being exempt from wearing a mask is unacceptable. Definitely take this up with CS.

I rather thought that it would be slightly bureaucratic in the lounge, at least to start with. I rather take it that the slots are an hour long? I’ll see whether it’s worth bothering with when I see it for myself on Monday.
 

Merseysider

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It’s very unusual for any of the crew on the Fort William route to behave like that - they’re normally a very helpful and laid-back bunch. I think that staff member needs to be retrained as his attitude is bang out of order - to be challenging someone for being exempt from wearing a mask is unacceptable. Definitely take this up with CS.

I rather thought that it would be slightly bureaucratic in the lounge, at least to start with. I rather take it that the slots are an hour long? I’ll see whether it’s worth bothering with when I see it for myself on Monday.
Yes, I agree, I’ve done the FTW route several times before and always been impressed with the staff attitudes. Perhaps this bloke is just having a bad day, no way of knowing, but I have fed back to CS on Twitter (who were very prompt) & will give them further details in the morning via email when I have a consistent signal.

It does indeed appear to be in hour slots - they offered me 8:30 or 9:30.

The other hosts besides the one I’ve mentioned were all superb in their attitude, and incredibly apologetic for the wait (each time) but I did get the impression they were overworked - they were hectically sorting payment out for one customer, checking if something was in stock for another, delivering a drink to another - and so on. I do feel sorry for them, but the wait times weren’t acceptable. :/
 

trek

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Given the lounge car has reopened can anyone know if the day seated portions are back too? (Twitter's latest answer was not yet but given they also said the lounge car was shut after it reopened...)
 

JonathanH

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Given the lounge car has reopened can anyone know if the day seated portions are back too? (Twitter's latest answer was not yet but given they also said the lounge car was shut after it reopened...)
Looking at booking engines, it remains not possible to buy a ticket for day travel on the seated portions.

Moreover, there remains reduced capacity.
Booking a seat

With social distancing in mind, our booking system now automatically selects a seat for you.

We have reduced our capacity in our Seated Coach to allow for our guests to travel appropriately in line with Government guidelines, reducing your worry of potentially booking a seat beside someone without realising!

I note that Scotrail has abandoned 'social distancing.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/bus...al-distancing-onboard-all-trains-in-scotland/
ScotRail has ended social distancing at its stations and onboard trains as a result of the new Covid rules.

It follows Nicola Sturgeon’s announcement that the legal requirement for physical distancing would be removed from August 9, including on public transport.

The Scottish Government has said the use of face coverings would be required in some situations, such as on public transport.

ScotRail has now said it will follow the new guidelines, scrapping social distancing rules while retaining the rules on face coverings.

Is Caledonian Sleeper potentially stuck in a situation where it has sold tickets on the basis of distancing for the next twelve months and would be breaking that agreement if they went back to full capacity? If so, they might not be able to change it for a while.
 
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185143

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Looking at booking engines, it remains not possible to buy a ticket for day travel on the seated portions.

Moreover, there remains reduced capacity.


I note that Scotrail has abandoned 'social distancing.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/bus...al-distancing-onboard-all-trains-in-scotland/
The reduced capacity was not an issue on Monday night!

There was myself and two other passengers in there. I'd agree with the comments above about the Fort William crews being laid back, certainly when I travelled the other day. The TM took the time to speak to me when I boarded, inform me food+drinks were now available again and how to get them, where facilities were, what happens at Edinburgh and where to find him if I needed anything. The impression I got from him and indeed the couple of lounge car staff I spoke to was frankly excellent and that nothing was too much trouble. I'd almost go as far as saying it was a better journey than my club room from Euston to Inverness! Ok, that was far more comfortable than a seat obviously but I felt far more valued and cared for in the FTW seats, boarding-despite being left behind and taxied an hour down the line-was much calmer and civilised than at Euston where we were left stood on the ramp for over 90 minutes with no information and I got fed+watered.
 

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Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I think they've only had bookings for seats on sale for a shorter time than 12-months for a while presumably in case they had to withdraw the seated offering again due to a further reintroduction of restrictions. And even if they had sold socially distance tickets for 12-months it would surely not be too difficult to ring passengers affected and ask what they wanted to do on the basis that they were increasing seated capacity again
 

Falcon1200

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Relying on optional overtime for your basic operation is poor management.

But is that what CS actually do ? Or is it more likely that, as in my own area of former railway employment, they have sufficient relief cover for foreseeable circumstances such as Annual Leave, but not for multiple simultaneous issues, such as long and short term sickness, maternity leave, jury service, and global pandemics ? In which case industrial relations problems and an overtime ban are bound to cause severe difficulties.
 

FOCTOC

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Considering it spends its life being dragged around by a coal fired steam loco its hardly surprising is it?
 

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