An alternative route between Plymouth and Exeter, via Okehampton, should be built

[yorksrob]

Moderator note: Split from

Bridge strike at Plymouth (30/08)

This does not look good. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/train-disruption-expected-rest-day-5850301?fbclid=IwAR25yMdPgDaMKpZFj-XnvXBHvcVjgUaH1ISsoP-DqSCnIOHn Disruption to trains and nearby roads is expected until the end of the day after a lorry wedged itself under a Plymouth...

www.railforums.co.uk

What happened to that second route to Plymouth David Cameron was talking about. Have they built it yet ?

 

[PHILIPE]

What happened to that second route to Plymouth David Cameron was talking about. Have they built it yet ?

Politicians go to a place and promise this and that but go away and forget all about it.

 

[yorksrob]

Politicians go to a place and promise this and that but go away and forget all about it.

Indeed.

 

[yorksrob]

Yet the usual suspects will be arguing that there's no need for an additional route to Plymouth.

 

[507020]

Yet the usual suspects will be arguing that there's no need for an additional route to Plymouth.

For the sake of resiliency, it’s completely unacceptable for there to only be a single operational route to Plymouth, so whenever there are any issues with it the whole of Cornwall gets cut off. The L&SWR line via Okehampton is the perfect candidate for a diversionary route and this incident isn’t even anything to do with the Dawlish sea wall.

 

[Martin_1981]

For the sake of resiliency, it’s completely unacceptable for there to only be a single operational route to Plymouth, so whenever there are any issues with it the whole of Cornwall gets cut off. The L&SWR line via Okehampton is the perfect candidate for a diversionary route and this incident isn’t even anything to do with the Dawlish sea wall.

The Okehampton route would be a godsend at times like this if it was ever to be reopened in full. I think it's a must.

 

[24Grange]

DfT are not going to reinstate Bere Alston- Okehampton for a contingency of the "main line" being shut for say 2 weeks a year ( couple of bridge strikes and a Dawlish cliff fall/washout). The price NR would charge of xxxxxx Billions would make it not cost effective. Cheaper to do rail replacement buses and taxis like I ( and many others) had to endure in 2014!! Each time it happens.

Every train stops at Plymouth and Exeter anyway, so turnaround times would not be as much as people think - not that its going to happen.

Mind you if Devon was in Scotland, it probably have been replaced by now!

 

[Rich McLean]

Plymouth - Exeter via Tavistock would have to stack up in its own right. If the Okehampton branch does well, and they re-open Bere Alston - Tavistock and that does well as an hourly service, then there maybe a good case to plug the gap. As it is, the bus route between Okehampton and Tavistock does a poor trade and is a Devon County Council funded route.

Also you have to remember that the car is king in rural Devon, which will go against it, unless they build park and ride car parks at strategic locations.

As for Johnny Mercer, it looks as if he may go independent shortly. He wouldn't gain enough MPs to support a leadership bid as too many Tory MPs can't stand him.

 

[Martin_1981]

Plymouth - Exeter via Tavistock would have to stack up in its own right. If the Okehampton branch does well, and they re-open Bere Alston - Tavistock and that does well as an hourly service, then there maybe a good case to plug the gap. As it is, the bus route between Okehampton and Tavistock does a poor trade and is a Devon County Council funded route.

Also you have to remember that the car is king in rural Devon, which will go against it, unless they build park and ride car parks at strategic locations.

As for Johnny Mercer, it looks as if he may go independent shortly. He wouldn't gain enough MPs to support a leadership bid as too many Tory MPs can't stand him.

The main route from Plymouth to Exeter will always be the route via Dawlish, even if Plymouth to Exeter via Okehampton was ever to be restored in it's entirety. I'm sure Okehampton will do well and also Tavistock if it was to be reopened, but Plymouth to Exeter as a through route via Okehampton would be an extremely useful diversionary route at times when the existing route is closed. It would probably be a bit slow and would take longer than the Dawlish route especially with reversals at both Plymouth and Exeter for any diverted through train between Penzance/Plymouth and stations north of Exeter. Probably need to add up to an hour on for the diversion.

 

[BayPaul]

The main route from Plymouth to Exeter will always be the route via Dawlish, even if Plymouth to Exeter via Okehampton was ever to be restored in it's entirety. I'm sure Okehampton will do well and also Tavistock if it was to be reopened, but Plymouth to Exeter as a through route via Okehampton would be an extremely useful diversionary route at times when the existing route is closed. It would probably be a bit slow and would take longer than the Dawlish route especially with reversals at both Plymouth and Exeter for any diverted through train between Penzance/Plymouth and stations north of Exeter. Probably need to add up to an hour on for the diversion.

I'm imagining this thread in an alternative reality where the Okehampton route was open, and all of the criticism that would be happening because services were still bustituted from Tiverton to Plymouth because the drivers didn't have route knowledge / there wasn't capacity for the reversals / too many single line sections / too slow journey time etc. just like the complaints when the WCML isn't diverted via the Settle & Carlisle.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm imagining this thread in an alternative reality where the Okehampton route was open, and all of the criticism that would be happening because services were still bustituted from Tiverton to Plymouth because the drivers didn't have route knowledge / there wasn't capacity for the reversals / too many single line sections / too slow journey time etc. just like the complaints when the WCML isn't diverted via the Settle & Carlisle.

That may be true to an extent, but even if GWR didn't have the route knowledge of the Okehampton route, passengers would have the option of catching the scheduled service along the route.

For an individual passenger at Preston, it would be more of a rigmarole to get to the S&C.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Politicians go to a place and promise this and that but go away and forget all about it.

Most of the quotes at the time seemed to be about things like “taking a long hard look” at resilience options. Network Rail did that, concluded that re-opening via Okehampton was poor value for money and that ‘hardening’ the Dawlish route was the best option (now well in hand thanks to taxpayer funding). Sounds like good follow through to me.

Am I missing something?

 

[yorksrob]

Most of the quotes at the time seemed to be about things like “taking a long hard look” at resilience options. Network Rail did that, concluded that re-opening via Okehampton was poor value for money and that ‘hardening’ the Dawlish route was the best option (now well in hand thanks to taxpayer funding). Sounds like good follow through to me.

Am I missing something?

"Follow through" being a good euphemism for the litany of excuses resulting in the South West being forever destined to be at the end of a long and winding single route.

 

[The Planner]

Doesn't that apply to a shed load of locations? North Wales, west of Bridgend, west of Shrewsbury etc etc...

 

[yorksrob]

Most of those don't access a major city though.

 

[Glenn1969]

But do the powers that be think Plymouth and Truro are major cities?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

But do the powers that be think Plymouth and Truro are major cities?

No, Englands rail network terminates at Exeter as does everything else far as they're concerned hence the M5 ending there etc.

 

[yorksrob]

But do the powers that be think Plymouth and Truro are major cities?

No, Englands rail network terminates at Exeter as does everything else far as they're concerned hence the M5 ending there etc.

They don't but they're wrong.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

They don't but they're wrong.

Of course they are. Plymouth is twice the population of Exeter but Plymouth is just a little to far for them and is the wrong side of Haldon Hill - the ultimate barrier of investment.

 

[yorksrob]

Of course they are. Plymouth is twice the population of Exeter but Plymouth is just a little to far for them and is the wrong side of Haldon Hill - the ultimate barrier of investment.

The irony being that the Tavistock route nicely avoid Haldon Hill anyway.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

The irony being that the Tavistock route nicely avoid Haldon Hill anyway.

Very true, it did indeed. The proposed inland route that NR was talking about a few years would have required tunneling under Haldon which would have been a huge job.

 

[HSTEd]

I don't think a single route to Cornwall would be a serious problem if it was a decently maintained route....

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think a single route to Cornwall would be a serious problem if it was a decently maintained route....

On the contrary, there's not a single route in the kingdom that doesn't experience engineering works, unexpected disruption, weather related shutdowns. With the exception to the section around Dawlish, theres nothing particularly unusual about the main line through Newton. It's just that a large strategic area such as the West of England requires more than one railway route.

 

[Glenn1969]

On the contrary, there's not a single route in the kingdom that doesn't experience engineering works, unexpected disruption, weather related shutdowns. With the exception to the section around Dawlish, theres nothing particularly unusual about the main line through Newton. It's just that a large strategic area such as the West of England requires more than one railway route.

But it has 2 as far as Exeter

 

[yorksrob]

But it has 2 as far as Exeter

That's fine as far as Exeter. Plymouth is a major gateway city to the west. The additional route needs to reach there.

 

[HSTEd]

On the contrary, there's not a single route in the kingdom that doesn't experience engineering works, unexpected disruption, weather related shutdowns. With the exception to the section around Dawlish, theres nothing particularly unusual about the main line through Newton. It's just that a large strategic area such as the West of England requires more than one railway route.

Given that the route via Tavistock is so slow that a coach could beat it, I would argue the A30/A38 are the second route.

 

[yorksrob]

Given that the route via Tavistock is so slow that a coach could beat it, I would argue the A30/A38 are the second route.

Oh please.

The slow speeds to which you refer we undoubtedly the speed of a 1960's route that was being run down for closure, and if the A30/38 is "the secondary route" by that logic, a big chunk of the network is supposedly obsolete (it isn't).

 

[HSTEd]

Oh please.

The slow speeds to which you refer we undoubtedly the speed of a 1960's route that was being run down for closure, and if the A30/38 is "the secondary route" by that logic, a big chunk of the network is supposedly obsolete (it isn't).

How many other components of the network justify their existance (almost) solely as a reserve route for another part of the network?

 

[yorksrob]

How many other components of the network justify their existance (almost) solely as a reserve route for another part of the network?

But the Okehampton route eouldn't justify its existance solely as a reserve route for another part of the network. It would justify its existence as being a regional route for Okehampton and Tavistock primarily.

 

[HSTEd]

But the Okehampton route eouldn't justify its existance solely as a reserve route for another part of the network. It would justify its existence as being a regional route for Okehampton and Tavistock primarily.

A route designed for the real transport requirements of Okehampton and Tavistock would be almost useless for diversionary purposes, except as a feel good measure.

I'm not even sure it would have the Okehampton-Tavistock section in it.