Bridge strike at Plymouth (30/08)

[Martin_1981]

Where are cross country trains services terminating coming southbound from birmingham via Bristol and tiverton towards Exeter then?

XC services to and from the north seem to be starting from and terminating at either Newton Abbot or Totnes. Buses are running between Plymouth and Tivvy Parkway.

 

[Dai Corner]

Blame the fragmentation brought about by privatisation. In BR days there would be one person totally in overall charge

Yes, I remember reading the memoirs of a retired Area Manager at Exeter. In his day his Plymouth colleague would have taken control of the incident, I'm sure.

 

[philthetube]

Looking at the pictures I wonder why the bridge signs are the advisory? triangular ones and not the mandatory round ones

 

[Deepgreen]

What is the legal financial responsibilty to be borne by Tesco's here? The full cost of disruption and repair must be enormous.

 

[alastair]

The 0904 Paddington/Plymouth has run through and arrived Plymouth only 8m late, so maybe things are improving?

 

[Deepgreen]

Will be a challenge to recover the lorry without damaging the bridge further, the deflate the tyres and pull it out method won't work from the front, so it looks like it will have to be winched back under the bridge. Fortunate no train was crossing at the time.

As it's downhill behind the lorry, surely that won't be very hard? The bridge damage will settle back down as the lorry is eased backwards, presumbly, then will need assessment and whatever reconstruction is prescribed.

The 0904 Paddington/Plymouth has run through and arrived Plymouth only 8m late, so maybe things are improving?

Running wrong line?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have to wonder if the lorry driver was a contractor rather than a Tesco employee who wasn’t familiar with the area etc.

As far as I'm aware, all Tesco logistics is managed by Stobarts (who in turn rely on agencies and freelancers to deal with peaks in demand). The only drivers directly employed by Tesco are the little bread van home delivery jobs.

 

[The exile]

Every experience I have had of the GWR helpline has confirmed that it is worse than useless. Such helplines must be staffed by people who know the area and are authorised to make decisions - not just parrot “corporate speak script”

 

[Revilo]

Looking at the pictures I wonder why the bridge signs are the advisory? triangular ones and not the mandatory round ones

Mandatory (circular) signs can only be used at non-arch bridges. Only warning (triangular) signs can be used at arch bridges. See page 39 of https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/772037/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-4.pdf

(Link is to government advice in Traffic Signs Manual)

 

[richw]

The chap was almost at his wits' end, as he'd been trying to contact coach firms and taxi firms with no success since around 4.00pm.

He wouldn’t have been doing this. Station staff have to go through control at Swindon.

 

[Horizon22]

Blame the fragmentation brought about by privatisation. In BR days there would be one person totally in overall charge

There is. That person happens to be at a Control centre not near the incident. Why would you have trained senior colleagues all over the place when you never know where the next severe incident is going to take place? There are still local teams at all locations (with a local Control team at the biggest hubs like Exeter for instance). Local teams will still try and arrange publci transport where they can, but a Control centre will also have the direct line to the replacement transport hub - in this case First Travel Solutions - to make strategic & operational decisions. Unfortunately when you're told availability is severely limited (and indeed the poster who was stuck at Totnes has confirmed it) you cannot magic up replacement vehicles.

He wouldn’t have been doing this. Station staff have to go through control at Swindon.

He might have been. At this point it was basically trying anyone local to source anything.

 

[Deepgreen]

As far as I'm aware, all Tesco logistics is managed by Stobarts (who in turn rely on agencies and freelancers to deal with peaks in demand). The only drivers directly employed by Tesco are the little bread van home delivery jobs.

My point/question should have been; where does the 'buck stop' financially?

 

[zwk500]

My point/question should have been; where does the 'buck stop' financially?

I suspect it's with the driver's insurers (which in this case would be his or hers employer's).

 

[AndyPJG]

As it's downhill behind the lorry, surely that won't be very hard? The bridge damage will settle back down as the lorry is eased backwards, presumbly, then will need assessment and whatever reconstruction is prescribed.

From the pics looks like the (spandrel) wall has been displaced sideways slightly away from the railway, as well as the uplift.

 

[SteveM70]

As far as I'm aware, all Tesco logistics is managed by Stobarts (who in turn rely on agencies and freelancers to deal with peaks in demand). The only drivers directly employed by Tesco are the little bread van home delivery jobs.

Most of their transport is Stobarts, although two of the northern DCs are now DHL. Who the driver worked for is, as you say, a different question

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My point/question should have been; where does the 'buck stop' financially?

To which one answer would be "almost certainly not with Tesco" despite the bad publicity they'll get from a wagon with their branding being wedged under a bridge.

 

[Nova1]

XC from the east are terminating at Totnes but asking passengers to use Tiverton Parkway for buses direct to Plymouth (around 1h20 journey). Passengers for intermediate stations are being asked to use GWR services.



GWR is reporting the line is open in one direction at the affected site, and are running 1tph between Plymouth and Totnes.

 

[bramling]

I think the present pandemic has sadly illustrated that the country can survive without a rail network and in recent years London hasnt stopped when there has been rail or tube strikes

Depends how one looks at it. You still have large numbers of essential workers to get to/from work. Without rail you could get them there by road, but this would become unviable if everyone else was trying to get places as well - which wasn’t happening at times like the March 2020 lockdown. In turn the lockdown was only possible with billions worth of government subsidy in the form of furlough and business grants.

In short I’m not sure things could tick over without the railway, especially in the London area.

 

[geoffk]

There are three points to consider in taking a balanced view of resilience

1. This was caused by road transport along with the Whittlesey crossing incident recently
2. If we only had road transport not only would emissions increase but the roads would be gridlocked and road transport would be completely non resilient.
3. Government lack of investment and public dislike of subsidising the railways has resulted in a much less resilient railway for example the closure of alternative routes to cut cost and appease the public especially those who had cars and did not use the railway.

Also over-simplification of station and depot layouts and of junctions, mostly to save money.

 

[zwk500]

Also over-simplification of station and depot layouts and of junctions, mostly to save money.

Simple layouts are less likely to go wrong, and when they do go wrong quicker to put right in full.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Also over-simplification of station and depot layouts and of junctions, mostly to save money.

Is that really an issue here? The Plymouth area hasn’t been materially changed in decades and places like Newton Abbot and Exeter were done by ‘later BR’ but still with a fair amount of facing crossovers and reversible platform working.
Obviously the layouts no longer need to built round steam traction, banking engines, wayside goods depots, ‘summer Saturdays in the West’ and whatnot.

 

[221129]

He might have been.

He might have been doing taxis. Definitely not doing coaches.

 

[507020]

At least the Government has everything under control, by wanting to introduce larger lorries on the roads.

I’m sure the bridge that has been struck has sufficient clearance for the Siemens eHighway electrification system that will be installed on all roads within the next 5 years.

Not just to you, but all making this point: how often does this situation occur, and is spending >£1bn on a new railway really a more effective method of mitigating it than putting a bollard in the road to enforce a 6'6" width restriction? The bridge in question is located between 2 bridges with easy clearance, one of which is over the railway that the lorry could easily have accessed by following the same road for about a mile.

I don't know the area, but it would seem to be a fairly exceptional set of circumstances that there is no or very little road transport available, and for every other time trains are disrupted a short hop in a coach is going to be far preferable than a slow trundle round the wrong side of Dartmoor and 2 reversals. Not to mention the impact on passengers of stuffing Plymouth and Exeter St. David's up with reversing trains, or further delaying trains by diverting those not stopping at Taunton via Yeovil. A brand new line just screams 'Trains are the best', rather than the measured statement 'how do we provide effective public transport at good value to those funding it'.

A width restriction, and preliminary height warnings like laser detection and a chain shield prior to the first arch would cost far, far less to install and maintain than the new line. That and increase the fine + penalty points for striking any bridge.

Why would it be a “slow trundle” through Okehampton? Surely the line speed on a brand new £1 billion railway would be quite high, possibly higher than the route via Dawlish. What about the slow trundle over the single line on a severely damaged bridge?

Long distance trains would only ever reverse at times such as this when the other line is closed. The rest of the time, only a Plymouth - Exeter local service via Okehampton would need to run. Perhaps this could be reduced in frequency when diversions are in place.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as they introduce lorry drivers with bigger/some brains

Not possible since all the freight drivers with bigger/some brains are currently sat in Class 66s.

But I suppose we'll get the cheapest (on paper) rather than the best solution, much like "Smart Motorways", which have been proven to be not at all "smart" (and are still being built on the M6 in Staffs/Cheshire as I write).

The sum total of works on these “Smart” motorways is the installation of a purple tube along the central reservation and removal of the hard shoulder to make all journeys fatal.

Blame the fragmentation brought about by privatisation. In BR days there would be one person totally in overall charge

Fragmentation down there isn’t even as bad as it is in some other parts of the country, with only GWR, XC and Network Rail to deal with.

Also over-simplification of station and depot layouts and of junctions, mostly to save money.

Exactly, when the desired movements in times of disruption have been rendered impossible.

Rather than a “balanced” view of resiliency, why not take a “resilient” view of what infrastructure is necessary, which includes the full length of the line from Okehampton to Bere Alston.

 

[Horizon22]

He might have been doing taxis. Definitely not doing coaches.

No definitely not, taxis is what I meant.

 

[zwk500]

Why would it be a “slow trundle” through Okehampton? Surely the line speed on a brand new £1 billion railway would be quite high, possibly higher than the route via Dawlish. What about the slow trundle over the single line on a severely damaged bridge?

Long distance trains would only ever reverse at times such as this when the other line is closed. The rest of the time, only a Plymouth - Exeter local service via Okehampton would need to run. Perhaps this could be reduced in frequency when diversions are in place.

It will never be justified to maintain the line above the speed of the local train, given this type of event happens less than 2 times a year on average. A slow trundle over a bridge takes a total of 3-5 minutes. Going via okehampton would add on a minimum of 15-20 minutes just in reversals, let alone the additional time for going the long way round.

The sum total of works on these “Smart” motorways is the installation of a purple tube along the central reservation and removal of the hard shoulder to make all journeys fatal.

Smart motorways also include Variable Speed Limit-only and Dynamic Hard Shoulder, not just All Lane Running Sections. The VSL in particular is very effective at mitigating congestion and preventing stationary queues. DHS is of variable quality but by and large works well. I agree ALR is a false economy.

Exactly, when the desired movements in times of disruption have been rendered impossible.

Rather than a “balanced” view of resiliency, why not take a “resilient” view of what infrastructure is necessary, which includes the full length of the line from Okehampton to Bere Alston.

Where (and how) would a more complicated junction layout have permitted a better service to be offered in this incident?

 

[philthetube]

He might have been doing taxis. Definitely not doing coaches.

No definitely not, taxis is what I meant.

He could have been, he probably had instructions to do what he could, and if his uncle John has a PCV then get on with it mate.

 

[richw]

He might have been. At this point it was basically trying anyone local to source anything.

They don’t have authority even at the worst times. I was on standby for a branch line the day the IETs were completely pulled (April?). No trains for 6 hours yet he didn’t have authority to use me on the main line as I was hired for the branch. I didn’t move an inch for the entire 12 hour standby shift

 

[Coolzac]

Disruption now expected to last until the end of Friday. I expect this may be extended as the works on the bridge will take a long time! Not good timing with lots of people returning from Cornwall this week. At least the sleeper is running! I have a few days booked in Penzance Friday 3rd - Monday 6th and returning via the sleeper Monday evening, so must say am personally relieved.

 

[northernbelle]

Totnes works fine as well. Also why would you terminate at Tiverton Parkway when you can run to Exeter SD which is fully staffed with better facilities and onward connections?

No it doesn't - the space for coaches at Totnes is extremely limited and it's not much better at Exeter St Davids. Exeter is also harder to manage for rail replacement because it is so much busier.

Tiverton is a much better proposition as it's immediately next to the M5 and provides the best overall journey time - having to battle your way through the Exeter traffic can add up to an hour in journey time and adding journey time reduces the number of coaches available and thus capacity.

 

[Horizon22]

They don’t have authority even at the worst times. I was on standby for a branch line the day the IETs were completely pulled (April?). No trains for 6 hours yet he didn’t have authority to use me on the main line as I was hired for the branch. I didn’t move an inch for the entire 12 hour standby shift

Slightly different scenario here though - there was no standby around. I'm almost certain that yesterday if it was the same situation as yesterday you'd have been sent to Plymouth.