Southeastern to be taken over by OLR

[dk1]

I didn't think staff free travel facilities were allowed to be used for commuting. Or is that just TfL?

Most TOCs issue a staff travel card that covers all leisure, to/from work & duty travel.

 

[Helvellyn]

Obviously a lot to come out but sounds like something since the 2014 franchise has been misreported. The end of franchising as we knew it, with all revenue going to DfT and operators being paid a fee maybe exposed this. I know Southeastern hadn't moved to the new model but they and DfT would have been going through the books as part of negotiating the new model and looks like something was spotted.

If Go-Ahead's CFO has gone you have to wonder what will happen to Southeastern's Finance Director.

 

[randomname234]

I'm in a talent pool for bromley. Now that Southeastern lost the contract is the pool going to be dissolved or will we be moved into the Operator of Last Resort?

 

[dk1]

I'm in a talent pool for bromley. Now that Southeastern lost the contract is the pool going to be dissolved or will we be moved into the Operator of Last Resort?

I would imagine the latter. It should just be business as usual.

 

[Horizon22]

It looks the issues may relate to the Horton era as SouthEastern CEO (2008-2015)

The DfT report says since Oct 2014 so unlikely.

 

[LAX54]

Probably right - it's just if an employee was fired for serious breach of contract he wouldn't get three weeks notice. But with firing an operator, it's probably too hard to strip it immediately, even though there were apparently serious irregularities. No solution here for these 3 weeks is satisfactory

Not sure, he maybe suspended pending inquiry and investigation, but not sacked on the spot.....just in case there is something unknown, and that could be a costly court case !

 

[Horizon22]

I'm in a talent pool for bromley. Now that Southeastern lost the contract is the pool going to be dissolved or will we be moved into the Operator of Last Resort?

The recruitment team will all remain the same so you’d be moved into the pool more than likely. For people not at the top-end of senior management, little will change.

I didn't think staff free travel facilities were allowed to be used for commuting. Or is that just TfL?

For staff / duty travel purposes yes they were and the staff key card would open respective gates for each company. That was how Go-Ahead treated it anyway, other owning groups are different.

 

[ScotGG]

London suburban services will still be left to rot on the whole I predict.

Remember when DfT scrapped TfL takeover?

Some said DfT would now show what they can do. Laughed then and laughing now.

It's still probably the worst suburban network in London in terms of franchise given a damn. Possibly down there with Southern.

 

[LowLevel]

I didn't think staff free travel facilities were allowed to be used for commuting. Or is that just TfL?

Employees tend to be able to use their passes for leisure, duty and commuting though some staff have mixed class entitlements - IE first class for leisure travel only, or first class for duty travel. Spouses and dependents are leisure only.

 

[43066]

Most TOCs issue a staff travel card that covers all leisure, to/from work & duty travel.

Those only cover the services of that TOC and group companies, though. Otherwise, unless there’s an agreement between TOCs, you’ll be unable to use it for leisure/commuting on other services and will have to buy a priv.

 

[matt_world2004]

I didn't think staff free travel facilities were allowed to be used for commuting. Or is that just TfL?

That's just privs. Free travel facilities are set by their toc and usually valid for commuting including for TfL employees where their pass is valid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Employees tend to be able to use their passes for leisure, duty and commuting though some staff have mixed class entitlements - IE first class for leisure travel only, or first class for duty travel. Spouses and dependents are leisure only.

Ah, that'll be where I got my misunderstanding from. Thanks.

 

[Horizon22]

Ah, that'll be where I got my misunderstanding from. Thanks.

To be fair it would normally be the staff members own TOC usually but owning groups do it differently. Between SE and GTR there were reciprocal agreements although I think they’d existed even in FCC days.

 

[matt_world2004]

If there is an allegation of serious fraud , and it involves teams in govia that manage both GTR and southeastern. Then Govia Thameslink Railway cannot be far behind having an operator of last resort appointed

 

[43096]

If there is an allegation of serious fraud , and it involves teams in govia that manage both GTR and southeastern. Then Govia Thameslink Railway cannot be far behind having an operator of last resort appointed

The Go Ahead CFO who has resigned was Southeastern FD until December 2018 (in the time period referenced in the announcement) before starting the role with Go-Ahead.

 

[XAM2175]

... and it involves teams in govia that manage both GTR and southeastern ...

Is this known? I don't think it's wise to speculate along those lines without being very clear about your source information.

 

[matt_world2004]

Is this known? I don't think it's wise to speculate along those lines without being very clear about your source information.

No.there was a big if caveat in that statement.

 

[WesternLancer]

"A statement from the Department for Transport (DfT) said it had found evidence that since October 2014 historical taxpayer funding of £25m, which should have been returned, had not been declared."


Wonder if SET have taken the same approach to paying delay repay claims customers feel they are owed....

 

[4-SUB 4732]

All I shall say is “good”, but considering the agreement was about to come to and end, all they’ve done is found a really good excuse to not continue with Govia and to thus go OLR.

Shapps hasn’t quite gone in with big teeth like people think.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

OLR haven't exactly solved Northerns problems so be careful what you wish for here but nothing really going change including the livery and logos. Also the majority of staff will stay and I wouldn't be surprised to see Steve White left in charge anyway as he wasn't there when these financial irregularities occurred and he was key in getting TL back in shape a few years back.

I also hope the staff don't lose out on the GoAhead wide travel facilities they currently enjoy this isn't of there making.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All I shall say is “good”, but considering the agreement was about to come to and end, all they’ve done is found a really good excuse to not continue with Govia and to thus go OLR.

Shapps hasn’t quite gone in with big teeth like people think.

Slightly surprised they haven't shouted about nationalising it, as that's about the most popular policy decision the Government could make at the moment. I guess it's too unTory a policy

 

[Royston Vasey]

According to Southeastern's website



So today's announcement is really that the DfT has decided not to exercise its option to extend the contract. The financial irregularities may be a factor of course. £25m doesn't seem to be that much in the context of the total payments which will have been made between the two organisations over the last seven years though.

There it is!

This is a franchise with a £1 billion annual turnover in normal times. It could be fraud, but it sounds to me like an accounting error or calculation on a spreadsheet that the auditors haven't picked up. It happens in corporate life, but this is a political football we are talking about. Either way, the DfT are using it opportunistically to make it a bigger story than just deciding to nationalise it. Not that it isn't a big story, of course, but what a timely chance for a "decisive action" story.

A Conservative government needs a very good excuse to nationalise a franchise, and either way this provided it. Shapps' ego is of course, heavily invested in his self-titled "Williams-Shapps plan" and this is just one more brick.

Slightly surprised they haven't shouted about nationalising it, as that's about the most popular policy decision the Government could make at the moment. I guess it's too unTory a policy

Yes, exactly. It's a very unTory policy which the Govt has nevertheless committed to already. But I guess we shouldn't be surprised, populism has replaced policymaking

 

[RealTrains07]

Just Tweeted by Grant Shapps, that the Southeastern franchise will imminently transfer to the Operator of Last Resort (OLR), appears to suggest some form of corruption. No further details at the moment.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=21

The first question I have that comes to mind is how long the DfT knew about this and why strip Go Ahead of the franchise now and not sooner?

 

[dk1]

Those only cover the services of that TOC and group companies, though. Otherwise, unless there’s an agreement between TOCs, you’ll be unable to use it for leisure/commuting on other services and will have to buy a priv.

Oh no of course not unless reciprocal agreements exist.

 

[ExRes]

Another opportunity for the anti-Government, anti-DfT gang to have a day out, if this was an 'accidental oversight' then I would've thought that the numerous and well paid gang of Southeastern legal advisors would be taking the headlines by now, are they?

I note the usual Labour ramblings of "complete failure of the franchise model" and "bring rail franchises back into public ownership" are already being aired, why do they never mention the failure to do so between 1997 and 2010?

 

[dk1]

I note the usual Labour ramblings of "complete failure of the franchise model" and "bring rail franchises back into public ownership" are already being aired, why do they never mention the failure to do so between 1997 and 2010?

Something I always quote but amusingly falls on deaf ears.

 

[Chrisgr31]

For those asking when this was picked up read post 39 which states that the DfT notified SouthEastern of an issue in March 2020 so pre-pandemic issues. The fact it has taken 18 months to take action suggests that settlement has not been reached between the parties. Cynics might suggest it is an attempt to get fuel and the Labour conference off the front page.

As the DfT is involved I su there is smoke and mirrors and the truth lies somewhere between the comments both sides have made.

 

[43096]

Something I always quote but amusingly falls on deaf ears.

Or you get the response that it wasn’t “real Labour” in power, it was Tory-lite Tony.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The Go Ahead CFO who has resigned was Southeastern FD until December 2018 (in the time period referenced in the announcement) before starting the role with Go-Ahead.

So if the CFO of the Group is implicated from his time at Southeastern, I'd suggest that's pretty serious for the Group, as he clearly knew about it during his time as Group CFO. Thus the Group cannot claim that its officers weren't aware of what was going on.

And of course, there is the other point that someone who turns out to have been book-cooking at a subsidiary was rewarded (albeit possibly unwittingly) by a promotion. Maybe that promotion came about because of good results on the back of the potential fraud.

 

[Domh245]

For those asking when this was picked up read post 39 which states that the DfT notified SouthEastern of an issue in March 2020 so pre-pandemic issues. The fact it has taken 18 months to take action suggests that settlement has not been reached between the parties. Cynics might suggest it is an attempt to get fuel and the Labour conference off the front page.

As the DfT is involved I su there is smoke and mirrors and the truth lies somewhere between the comments both sides have made.

It's also been pointed out that the emergency agreement signed last year ran until 16th October 2021, which makes this a convenient 'run-out' ending rather than any particular proactive termination

Southeastern confirms new Direct Award Contract

Southeastern today confirms that the Department for Transport (DfT) has awarded a Direct Award Contract to Govia (a subsidiary of the Go Ahead Group (65%) and Keolis (35%)) to continue operating the Southeastern franchise.

newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Southeastern today confirms that the Department for Transport (DfT) has awarded a Direct Award Contract to Govia (a subsidiary of the Go Ahead Group (65%) and Keolis (35%)) to continue operating the Southeastern franchise.

The new contract commences on 1 April 2020 and will run until 16 October 2021, with the option to extend at the DfT’s discretion until 31 March 2022.