Unbuilt Roads that would be useful today.

[bussnapperwm]

With the traffic levels they are today, what roads that ended up being proposed but failed to be built do you think would be useful today?

To me, as a resident of the western part of the Black Country, the Western Orbital would have been ideal as it would have reduced the need for local traffic to mix with traffic heading for the M5 through Stourbridge and Kingswinford, plus could have resulted in earlier on line improvements between Kingswinford and Dudley, such as fully dual carriageway between Dudley and the WO/A449.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Northern A515 bypass in Ashbourne, Derbyshire.

Been talking about it for at least 50 years, still zero progress on the ground.

 

[Dai Corner]

The south Bristol orbital motorway. This would have run from the M4 east of the city to the M6 south of it and created an equivalent of London's M25 or Manchester's M60.

The M4 Newport Relief Road which would have replaced the 1960s motorway running through the city including the notorious bottleneck of the Brynglas tunnels.

 

[Alfonso]

The extension of the A329M, cutting the SW corner of the M25. The Pathetic Motorways website is quite a good source of info on what might have been, good or bad, as is the Map Men video on Londons mainly never built ringways

 

[Dai Corner]

There's a collection of 136 articles about unbuilt roads on the SABRE (Society of All British Road Enthusiasts) website. Some may have been more useful than others!

​

• A Ring
• A2(M) (Kidbrooke - Falconwood)
• A6(M) (Bredbury - Hazel Grove)
• A6(M) (Heaton Norris - Hazel Grove)
• A11(M)
• A14(M) (Expressway)
• A34(M)
• A48(M) (Llantrisant Radial)
• A59(M)
• A61(M)
• A446(M)
• A511 (Wigan)
• A556(M)
• A695(M)
• A1191
• A1244
• A6103 (Derby)
• A6183 (Kirkhamgate - Dishforth)
• A30/St Erth - Newtown Improvement

​

• B3123 (Wells)
• B5255 (Leigh)
• Balham Loop
• Bath Tunnel
• Belfast Urban Motorway
• Belmont Link Motorway
• Bilston Link Motorway
• Blackpole - Whittington Motorway

​

• Caol Link Road
• Central Area Distributor Road
• Central Motorway East Bypass
• Central Motorway West
• Central Spine Motorway
• Chippenham Spur
• City Centre Road
• Coventry East-West Motorway
• Coventry North-South Motorway
• Cublington Airport Motorway

​

• Denham Spur
• Derby Inner Circulatory Road
• Derby Urban Motorway
• Disley and High Lane Bypass
• Droitwich - Leicester Motorway

​

• East Coast Motorway
• East Cross Route
• East Kilbride Motorway
• East-West Underground Motorway
• Eastern Motorway (Portsmouth)
• Eastern Primary (Irvine)
• Eastern Primary (Preston)
• Esher Link Road
• Euroroute

​

• Fairview Spur
• Flockton Link
• Friars Goose Crossing
• Furness Link

​

• Glasgow Inner Ring Road
• Glen Feshie Road
• Glen Lednock Road
• Greater Manchester Western Relief Road

​

• Hamilton - Cumbernauld Motorway
• Heeley Bypass
• Highland Motorway
• Hook Road

​

• Johnstone Motorway

​

• Kendal Link
• Kidderminster, Blakedown and Hagley Bypass
• Kislingbury Valley Way

​

• Leeds North East Urban Motorway
• Liverpool Inner Motorway
• London Oxford Airport Motorway

​

• M4 (Northern Ireland)
• M6 (Northern Ireland)
• M7 (Northern Ireland)
• M8 (Northern Ireland)
• M11 (Northern Ireland)
• M12 (Brentwood - Chelmsford)
• M12 (Woodford - Brentwood)
• M12 (Woodford - Maplin)
• M13
• M14
• M17 (Leicestershire)
• M19
• M21 (Northern Ireland)
• M23 (Northern Ireland)
• M25 (Republic of Ireland)
• M30
• M31
• M58 (Preston)
• M59
• M60 (Knutsford - Manchester)
• M64 (Trentham - Long Whatton)
• M81
• M82
• M83
• M100
• M111
• M272
• M601
• M650
• M4/Newport Southern Bypass
• M53/Unbuilt Southern Extension
• M6-M8 Fastlink
• Malvern Radial Motorway
• Manchester Eastern By-pass
• Manchester Inner Ring Road
• Morecambe Link Motorway
• Mosborough Expressway

​

• North Cross Route

​

• Orbital Tunnel Route
• Outer Circuit Road

​

• Paisley - Hamilton Motorway
• POLO
• Portadown Urban Motorway
• Princess Parkway Motorway

​

• Rannoch Road
• Rannoch Road (Thomas Telford)
• Ringway 2
• Ringway 3
• Ringway 4
• Road to Nowhere

​

• Sherbourne Valley Road
• South Bristol Spur
• South Cross Route
• Springfield Link Road
• Stirling Corner Link
• Strensham - Solihull Motorway I
• Strensham - Solihull Motorway II
• Studley Bypass

​

• Thames Gateway Airport Access Road
• Townhill Link Motorway
• Trafford Park Motorway

​

• Warndon Radial Motorway
• Western Orbital
• Western Tangential
• Weston Spur
• Wing Bypass

 

[Ianno87]

I would personally would have found it useful if the M58 was completed to meet the M61 near Bolton as was originally planned.

 

[Whistler40145]

Extending the M67 through to Sheffield

 

[Ken H]

Extending the M67 through to Sheffield

Even if they only put in a few stretches of dual carriageway in the woodhead pass it would help. And Mottram needs a bypass.

 

[Ianno87]

Even if they only put in a few stretches of dual carriageway in the woodhead pass it would help. And Mottram needs a bypass.

You'd need to sort out the M60/M67 junction too- great to whizz around Hyde, but then come to a crashing end at the roundabouts at each end.

But then make it too free-flowing and you just push the traffic issues to the next constraint - I.e. onto the M60 or remaining bits of single carriageway over Woodhead.

 

[Ken H]

You'd need to sort out the M60/M67 junction too- great to whizz around Hyde, but then come to a crashing end at the roundabouts at each end.

But then make it too free-flowing and you just push the traffic issues to the next constraint - I.e. onto the M60 or remaining bits of single carriageway over Woodhead.

I always stop well before the east end roundabout. Usually a gurt queue

 

[ABB125]

To me, as a resident of the western part of the Black Country, the Western Orbital would have been ideal as it would have reduced the need for local traffic to mix with traffic heading for the M5 through Stourbridge and Kingswinford, plus could have resulted in earlier on line improvements between Kingswinford and Dudley, such as fully dual carriageway between Dudley and the WO/A449.

The Western Orbital would have been good, removing traffic from passing through the centre of the west Midlands. Unfortunately it's never going to be built now. It would have given Birmingham a complete orbital motorway (assuming the M6 Toll was also built, and that some proper junctions were built at either end, rather than the pathetic stuff we get nowadays).

The south Bristol orbital motorway. This would have run from the M4 east of the city to the M6 south of it and created an equivalent of London's M25 or Manchester's M60.

I think you mean M5! Interestingly, the M5 between J21 (Weston Super Mare) and J20 (Clevedon) has a very wide central reservation: this is because it was to be widened to 4 lanes in each direction when the Southern Bypass was built, which would head east around J20.

The M4 Newport Relief Road which would have replaced the 1960s motorway running through the city including the notorious bottleneck of the Brynglas tunnels.

And it would have significantly reduced air pollution in the Newport suburbs which the current M4 goes through. It may still happen, if Boris gets his way (supposedly!). However, there were two main flaws in the cancelled plans: the existing M4 was to be declassified to an A-road, which was pointless and probably only going to happen so that "they" could stick in some flat roundabouts to facilitate more car-dependent housing; and the absolute mess of a junction proposed east of Magor at the interface between M48/existing M4/new M4.

I would personally would have found it useful if the M58 was completed to meet the M61 near Bolton as was originally planned.

That certainly would have been good. I wonder what the original plan was where it crossed the M6? Surely something better than the current mess was planned?

Extending the M67 through to Sheffield

Definitely! The only problem is how you approach Sheffield: there are no decent routes into Sheffield from the west, and certainly no way to build a motorway through the city to join the M1 (which would be essential). You'd have to go some way north of Sheffield, but that would then make the route somewhat longer than desirable. I believe the Stocksbridge bypass was originally planned as part of the M67, which gives an idea of the preferred route.




As for what I would find useful, the Strensham-Solihull motorway. See here: https://www.pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/strensham_solihull_motorway/
There are some fascinating junction plans at the M5 and M42; this motorway is the reason the M42/M40 junction is built the way it is. Personally I'd have preferred the motorway to have ended on the M69 instead of the M42 (though the plans included an A-road upgrade from (presumably) Alcester to Coventry, probably along the line of the current A46).
Instead of this being built, someone decided to rectify the mistake of only building the M5 with only 2 lanes in each direction between J4 (I think) and J8 (M50). I would have far preferred the new motorway to be built. (As I've mentioned before, it's so much better to have several parallel-ish routes than only one higher-capacity route for reliability purposes. Yes, I'm looking at the M25, M6 north of Birmingham, A50 etc.)

 

[Ianno87]

That certainly would have been good. I wonder what the original plan was where it crossed the M6? Surely something better than the current mess was planned?

You can see that the M58 slip roads flare approaching the M6 junction - leaving space so thar the M58 main line would have continued straight over the top of everything, with corresponding east-facing slip roads onto the eastern roundabout.

(Interesting lesson in "passive provision" here - extra, permanent land take and cost for "just in case" - for something that ultimately never happened and likely now never will. And probably a compromised overall junction layout that could maybe have been optimised better if an eastward M58 did not have to be part of the mix)

 

[ABB125]

You can see that the M58 slip roads flare approaching the M6 junction - leaving space so thar the M58 main line would have continued straight over the top of everything, with corresponding east-facing slip roads onto the eastern roundabout.

Surely something a bit better than that was planned? Given the free-flow junctions on the M62 and M56 further south where they meet the M6, I'd be surprised if what's basically a dumbbell junction was considered acceptable for the M58.

(Interesting lesson in "passive provision" here - extra, permanent land take and cost for "just in case" - for something that ultimately never happened and likely now never will. And probably a compromised overall junction layout that could maybe have been optimised better if an eastward M58 did not have to be part of the mix)

Ideally, the junction would be replaced with a free-flow T-junction (like M6/M55). However, there isn't the space to the north to do so, without demolition of houses. A trumpet junction would have space on the east of the M6 for the loop (curving round to the south), though again on the western side of the M6 there's the problem of houses in the way. Some sort of "squiggle" of the M58->M6 sliproad should be possible though.
However, neither of those options would connect to the local road network, which the current junction does and I suspect would need to be retained. Thus we're going to be stuck with the current junction forever.

 

[Ianno87]

Surely something a bit better than that was planned? Given the free-flow junctions on the M62 and M56 further south where they meet the M6, I'd be surprised if what's basically a dumbbell junction was considered acceptable for the M58.

I guess the majority traffic flows would have been M58-M58, M6-M6 and M58(W)-M6(N)(although the latter would have depended on whether a direct Liverpool-Ormskirk-Preston motorway was ever built).

The use of the local access at the junction would have been diminished by the M58 dispersing traffic around Wigan.

 

[tbtc]

The Mosborough Expressway (south east of Sheffield) and the A61 (north of Sheffield)

For those unaware with this neck of the woods, Sheffield city centre was the junction between the north-south A61 (North Yorkshire - East Midlands) and the east-west A57 (Lincolnshire - Merseyside)

Sheffield is close to the motorway network, with a duel carriageway between the city centre and the M1 (the A57, Sheffield Parkway, dumping people at a large roundabout, like a northern version of the M32 between the M4 and central Bristol)

However, whilst it looks good on paper (Sheffield city centre has a reasonably fast road to a reasonably close part of the motorway network - albeit the roads between the city centre and the nearest bit of motorway at J34 can be horrible because you need to deal with the traffic for Meadowhall/ Arena/ IKEA etc), it's more a case of "Sheffield has one fastish road from the city centre to the motorway" rather than "Sheffield has fast links from the city centre towards the way that people would be travelling"

SO, anyone heading from central Sheffield to Nottingham/ Birmingham/ London needs to travel north east on the A57 to reach the M1 at J33 before travelling due east towards Thurcroft and only turning south once you reach the large triangular junction with the M18

Anyone heading from central Sheffield to Leeds/ north needs to travel north east on the A57 to reach the M1 at J33 before travelling north west towards Barnsley

This means that a lot of traffic uses local roads, like the Mosborough Parkway to get towards J31 Aston (at least half a dozen roundabouts with no grade separation) or via Meadowhead to get towards the A617 at Chesterfield towards J29 (traffic through Woodseats is horrific, as is the roundabout at Meadowhead) or the A61 to get towards J36 at Tankersley (long single carriageway sections, busy roundabout where you cross the eastern end of the "Stocksbridge bypass")

Whilst the Sheffield Parkway is a useful way of getting to suburban Rotherham and also for the M18 towards Doncaster/ Humberside, it'd have been a lot better for Sheffield if we'd replaced the one "fast" connection to the motorway for more of a "loop" off the M1 around J30 past the new "townships" around Mosborough/ Crystal Peaks, past the city centre and then join up with the motorway network again around J36 - maybe it'd head from J30 towards Gleadless (where Peter Stringfellow arranged for The Beatles to play a gig many years ago), down the Gleadless valley towards Meedsbrook?

There were plans for a proper "Mosborough Expressway" (rather than just the "Mosborough Parkway" that has a lot of roundabouts) and some ambitions for a proper fast road through northern Sheffield too, but never came to much, and our local roads are left to struggle with the vehicles that try for a more direct route than the inadequate route that the Sheffield Parkway takes. Maybe things would have been different if the fast road north had followed the M18 alignment to the A1 near Doncaster, rather than forcing the M1 over the viaduct at Tinsley - but, just like with plans for "High Speed" railways, Sheffield is stuck between "box ticking" and "something genuinely useful for Sheffield"

Sheffield has always had strange relationships to roads though - instead of a proper "Ring Road" we built fast dual carriageways through the centre of the city (Arundel Gate etc), taking all traffic through the middle of Sheffield at street level, splitting the city centre up, taking a long time to rectify!

(a beter faster road over the Pennines towards Manchester would be great too but a lot harder to build than designing a road through the "blank sheet of paper" of the New Town of housing estates around what is now Crystal Peaks)

 

[Andyh82]

Two projects, firstly extending the M65 across the Pennines and and also the Aire Valley Road past Shipley and towards Bradford

And secondly the so called ‘Flockton Link’ between Huddersfield and the M1 would both relieve the M62 so long distance traffic to/from West Yorkshire can travel north or south without having to first travel east or west

 

[Factotum]

With the traffic levels they are today, what roads that ended up being proposed but failed to be built do you think would be useful today?

To me, as a resident of the western part of the Black Country, the Western Orbital would have been ideal as it would have reduced the need for local traffic to mix with traffic heading for the M5 through Stourbridge and Kingswinford, plus could have resulted in earlier on line improvements between Kingswinford and Dudley, such as fully dual carriageway between Dudley and the WO/A449.

New roads just exacerbate the problems of too much traffic. They never solve it.

 

[Ianno87]

New roads just exacerbate the problems of too much traffic. They never solve it.

And this would happen in spades ln the Black Country's higgledy piggledy road network.

 

[Dai Corner]

New roads just exacerbate the problems of too much traffic. They never solve it.

Would closing some roads help then?

If so, which ones?

 

[Alfonso]

Would closing some roads help then?

If so, which ones?

In many settlements where once-main roads have been superceded by bypasses, providing only one vehicular road onto the new bypass and maintaining only pedestrian and bike access along the old road, especially where expensive infrastructure like bridges are involved, would reduce maintenance costs and make the old road much quieter, but those living or working on the road connecting the settlement to the bypass are not likely to be happy. Climate change and squeezed budgets might make this more common

 

[Dai Corner]

In many settlements where once-main roads have been superceded by bypasses, providing only one vehicular road onto the new bypass and maintaining only pedestrian and bike access along the old road, especially where expensive infrastructure like bridges are involved, would reduce maintenance costs and make the old road much quieter, but those living or working on the road connecting the settlement to the bypass are not likely to be happy. Climate change and squeezed budgets might make this more common

Wouldn't that force some to drive several miles further to reach their destinations? I'm not sure that would reduce climate change or road maintenance.

 

[david1212]

.....

As for what I would find useful, the Strensham-Solihull motorway. See here: https://www.pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/strensham_solihull_motorway/
There are some fascinating junction plans at the M5 and M42; this motorway is the reason the M42/M40 junction is built the way it is. Personally I'd have preferred the motorway to have ended on the M69 instead of the M42 (though the plans included an A-road upgrade from (presumably) Alcester to Coventry, probably along the line of the current A46).
Instead of this being built, someone decided to rectify the mistake of only building the M5 with only 2 lanes in each direction between J4 (I think) and J8 (M50). I would have far preferred the new motorway to be built. (As I've mentioned before, it's so much better to have several parallel-ish routes than only one higher-capacity route for reliability purposes. Yes, I'm looking at the M25, M6 north of Birmingham, A50 etc.)

Yes over the years numerous plans for Alcester / Stratford / Longbridge Interchange ( A46 / M40 ).
The ' new ' A46 ( back in time the A46 was Stratford / Broadway / Cheltenham ) Stratford up to ~ 2 miles from Longbridge Interchange has remained single carriageway then dual until the three lane section of the A46 north of Warwick. From south of Coventry to the M69 / M6 whenever once bottleneck is removed the pinch point just moves to the next.
The section from Alcester to Stratford still remains fundamentally unchanged from how I remember back to the 1970's.

Heading from north of Evesham around the 1980's Evesham bypass to the M5 while some improvements still single carriageway.

 

[SynthD]

Wouldn't that force some to drive several miles further to reach their destinations? I'm not sure that would reduce climate change or road maintenance.

If they insist on still driving, then yes. The point of keeping routes open for non vehicles or non cars can, with other changes, make cycling viable. Or a public transport alternative.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And secondly the so called ‘Flockton Link’ between Huddersfield and the M1 would both relieve the M62 so long distance traffic to/from West Yorkshire can travel north or south without having to first travel east or west.

Funny how times change... I remember being driven through Flockton as a child and seeing posters made by the villagers with "Sink The Link" emblazoned on them...
Now, there are posters and placards demanding a bypass!

 

[ABB125]

New roads just exacerbate the problems of too much traffic. They never solve it.

To an extent.
However, the bigger problem is the car-dependent new housing (and industrial warehousing) which always accompanies any new road (indeed, pretty much the only way a road can get funding nowadays is by facilitating development).

 

[Dai Corner]

If they insist on still driving, then yes. The point of keeping routes open for non vehicles or non cars can, with other changes, make cycling viable. Or a public transport alternative.

We're talking bypasses of villages or small towns in rural areas here. I don't think buses or bikes will ever be viable alternatives for a significant proportion of journeys.

 

[ABB125]

We're talking bypasses of villages or small towns in rural areas here. I don't think buses or bikes will ever be viable alternatives for a significant proportion of journeys.

Indeed. Far too many people (almost invariably living in metropolitan areas where good public transport already exists (or could be easily implemented)) don't seem to understand that public transport simply isn't viable in large parts of the country. There are possibly one or two journeys which could be made by bike etc, but nowhere near all.

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed. Far too many people (almost invariably living in metropolitan areas where good public transport already exists (or could be easily implemented)) don't seem to understand that public transport simply isn't viable in large parts of the country. There are possibly one or two journeys which could be made by bike etc, but nowhere near all.

Part of that is because rural cycling infrastructure in the UK is, in general, rubbish.

A good example is Cambridge, where cycling between the city and surrounding villages can be very good, with high quality cycle paths segregated from traffic.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Part of that is because rural cycling infrastructure in the UK is, in general, rubbish.

A good example is Cambridge, where cycling between the city and surrounding villages can be very good, with high quality cycle paths segregated from traffic.

..... and its as flat as a pancake.

 

[ABB125]

Part of that is because rural cycling infrastructure in the UK is, in general, rubbish.

That I would definitely agree with!

A good example is Cambridge, where cycling between the city and surrounding villages can be very good, with high quality cycle paths segregated from traffic.

Nothing like that where I come from in the countryside. There are some cyclepaths here in Birmingham, but I haven't been able to try them as there's nowhere to store a bike where I currently live (plus my bike was stolen from my university accommodation last year! )